Hello, I fear that is very much in the wrong place, but I consiter many people here to be very bright, and I belive you can provide me with the answer.
What I need to know is if there is any christian belife that would allow the soul to be removed from the body without directly killing hte body to remove the soul. If the body dies based on the soul already being gone, then its fine.
Again, I need this from a chrsitian persepective, any proof of any sorce is also good. Thanks to anyone who can help in advance.
Shocking optamism! I’m scared now…
(* Hides behind couch, points gun at door *)
english : “Soul”, Hebrew : “ne’phesh”, Greek : “psy-khe”,
(basic idea of what the greeks thought about the soul:)
Plato: "The soul, if it departs pure, dragging with it nothing of the body, goes away into that which is like itself, into the invisibke, divinee, immortal, and wise, and when it arrives there it is happy, freed from error and folly and fear and all other human ills, and lives in tryth through all after time with the gods."Phaedo, 80, D, E; 81, A.
biblicaly:
Matthew 10:28 -basic idea here is that souls can be destroyed same as bodies can.
Joshua 10:37 -talks about people gettin killed off and uses word “soul” when talkin about them dieing there, as if the soul were being killed at the same time as the body perhaps?
Leviticus 19:28 -This one was about one of the old commandments on not toutching dead bodies and it calls dead people “a deceased soul” here.
Hosea 13:14 -
The original hebrew term for “soul” was something like the modern english word “life”. During things like Greek translation, and the Greecian myth/culture effects on english–the word “soul”–partianing mainly to things such as “life force”, “vitality”, “power”, “animation”–this word combined with Greek myths about immortal and invinsible “souls” that left the body when a person died.
Biblical ressurection promises don’t really apply to a “soul”–because if a soul was immortal, it wouldn’t be dead and wouldn’t even need a ressurection!
If you want some “Christian” “Truth” (of all things…) you’d do yourself good to believe that the Jews [Moses, especially] where talkin’ about a mortal life, not an immortal subself… But you don’t want “the truth”, do you? I don’t think that you do, but I don’t know you and can only guess.
When I see people all around me, what they wanna hear is what they already believe in. They want fuel, they want to be reaffirmed. They don’t want change, they don’t want revolution, they don’t wanna be right, they wanna be primonotistic [yeah, I made that word up, cause english don’t got enough wordz!]
No. They wont “help” you! They will just give you their opinion, and they will want you to copy what they think, & believe in what they think. They will give you information and facts selectively, and support their own pre-meditated opinion. No “help”! NO!!!
NOBODY EVER “HELPS” YOU!
ALL THEY WANT IS TO TERRAFORM YOUR EXISTENCE SO THAT IT FITS BETTER INTO THEIR WILL.
Hey, so I am a pesimest, you just have to accept that.
No I don’t want the truth, because the person I am fighting agaist doesn’t care about the truth, they care about the bible, and each time they can’t come to a reason for why the bible is right, they get closer to the truth of others and no religion.
As for your little ending rant, I mostly agree with that, expect soliders, they are only for hte good of the country.
Yes the soul can be destroyed without killing the body.
The conciousness of what has been learned to that point will remain and eventualy become it’s own entity. So you could kill the soul, But somthing else would replace it. In death there is life and death to the metaphysical is much diferent than death to the physical form. To kill the metephysical you must cause it to cease to exist. As long as it exist in any form it is not dead (so to speak). You could probably achieve this if you put enough energy into it as to cause it to desperse or dilute itself so thin it would be unable to reanimate itself or reconstruct itself into a usable or comprehensive essance. Sort of like mixing to much water with a fuel sorce eventualy it spreads so thin and diluted there is not enough in one area to burn.
The body and brain would retain the knowlege and conciousness given up to that point with some possible maturity setbacks. It would continue and may not notice the difference but eventualy will evolve into it’s own being if it survives for long enough.
The only point I can see in doing this is to hide or destroy any knowledge the soul might have learned up to that point in it’s existance. As the newly created being would not retain any knowledged gained before it’s existance in this realm. There is the possibility of this being stumbling onto a path that allowed it to somehow access the knowledge lost simply because it is the remnant of the old conciousness and knowledge is infinite and can not be destroyed. So the knowledge you were trying to destroy would always exist it would just be easier for the remnant to access it than someone else.
You could kill the body at the same time if you wanted to it is just coporial flesh and easily destroyed. this would obliterate any trace of the being completely.
Here is a quote about the “soul” subject, from another forum:
Is the “soul” a structure made out of magnetism?
I’ve considered the soul retaining methods before, theoretically.
How to “defend” the soul:
Constant memory of passed refreshing resent form. Becoming “transparent” or something like that, “phasing out”–so that nothing could change you and you could change nothing.
The will to fight and act would contaminate the “phase out”, because nothing can effect or be effected by during the “phase out”.
The “phase out” has to do with the structure that perviously supported the quantu–existing without the quantu. This is very complex, because it is only structure, and is not quantu. No matter, no energy, but the “pathways” of that piece of reality still are stablized; self-stabilizing.
It wouldn’t matter what or where you phazed to. You would still be accesable to somthing though perhaps not what was trying to kill you.
The souls structure is not made out of magnatism becaus magnatism is based in the physical realm and the soul is metaphysical. Unless you advanced far enough in your technological proces that you could artificialy “ascend” Like the ancient’s do in Stargate and Stargate antlantis. Actualy really good theory. Though not being a “true” metaphysical form it would still be considered a metaphysical being. And have the same benifits and abilities.
Not far off from the truth really.
Defending the soul is almost imposible while contained in a coporial form unless distinct medaphysical modifications have been made to the coporial to allow access and use of the metaphysical abilities and energy.
Without which defending against such would be imposible…At least with the Human level of technology where it curently is.
I agree with #1 but if the soul can’t be influenced by things in the physical realm then why would it be that…“Defending the soul is almost impossible while contained in a coporial form”?
I did not state the soul was uneffected by the physical.
I stated magnitism is based on the physical properties and mass of the physical universe and therefore would have no part in creating or manifesting the soul (being made up of or haveing properties of).
The body does contain an electro magnetic field which contains the soul inside the body. So yes the physical can effect the metaphysical on some scale and vice versa. The soul is energy and conciousness, electromagnetic fields have direct if limited effects on such. But as far as this being used as a defensive matter:
Why?
Because of the variations in both Physical and metaphysical make up.
such as:
Physical coporial forms are bound and limited (as insofar at Humans curent evolutionary stage).
Metaphysical forms are not and never have been.
The body is a protective shell designed to protect the soul from the Physical, Not the metaphysical as 95% of everything in existance must take some physical form or essance/substance to exist here in this universe. Even ghosts have a physical/metaphysical makeup.
The other 5% can do whatever it want’s when it want’s and where it want’s. Simply because it knows “How” to get over on these rules and laws that are curently beyond the rest’s comprehension. Eventualy they will reach that level to…Everything will. And by that time it/they will still be able to do thing’s the others cant.
Thank-you for for this small qualification. I for one had mistakenly thought that your numbers were actually based on accurate scientific measurements.
Being in a coma would have nothing to do with the soul being gone as the body can still function without it.
Also, the body’s EM fiel will not allow the soul to leave it. So the body must first Die before the soul can leave. Unless you are destroying the soul itself in which case: Read my above posts.
You can “kill” the soul without damaging the body, However you can not kill the body without releasing the soul.
Have you ever tried communicating with a person in a coma? My guess would be that it wouldn’t be altogether different than trying to communicate with a corpse. Either way, you would get the distinct impression that nobody (their soul) was home.
The fact that you cant comunicate with someone in a coma is do to the brain function not being able to recieve or process input output signals due to either psychological, Or physical trauma to the brain itself. If a person who is in a coma wakes up they tend to be able to reticulate the exact events and conversations that took place during the coma. The conciousness is also diferent from the soul as the soul can be destroyed or removed without damaging the conciousness. However when the soul leaves the body (after the coporial dies) it tends to remove the conciousness with it.
[b]NearDeathExperiences have been talked about–in which the person is able to see things not normally possible around the room or hospital. This is also true of people in comas. Each one, the NDE and the coma patient, have been reported to have used ESP sorts of preception. I think that when the body is “half-death”–the “soul” can more easily move in our out.
If the EM field does keep the soul inside of the body somehow, then an electro-magnetic device/weapon could penitrate that. Strong EM fields are very bad for a human’s health.
There is another theory I’ve read about the soul/consciousness, in which the consciousness/soul is originally a vibration of the DNA molecules, and once that vibration stops [truly dead] then the wave/particle dualty means that the consciousness/soul will take on a purely wave form [instead of its previously particle form].
If you would like to read more about NearDeathExperiences,
There is lost of poop here: nderf.org/
I think it has been tainted by Christendom.
The experiences listed about “what it’s like to die”–talk of the consciousness reaching some sort of higher frequency.
This fits in perfectly into the idea of the wave/particle theory of consciousness duality. The fact that the particle stopped vibrating, means that the wave part reached some sort of infinite vibration.
During a death, it is my thoery that more is to be lost then to be gained, even though allot of NDE people didn’t want to live anymore after they got a taste of what it was like as a purely-wave-based lifeform.
Meanwhile, I like it better here on earth!
During the eventual TechnologicalSingularity, it will be possible to “upload” consciousness into new bodies. “upload” could eventually become “clone” aswel, were as the soul and body could each be cloned, and one purely-wave being could communicate with the physical world, and vice-versa, each gaining “the best of both worlds” so-to-speak, hopefully cooperating and progressing expotentially.
If eventual cryogenic reanimation was practiced,
the body would rise again–and there is a chance that the “soul” would actually come back from “the other side”, and bring with it untold new knowledge and experiences.[/b]
I only bothered to reply because I knew that The_Watcher is reading this. I don’t think it would be understood by others.