Form, Separation, Tao

First off, I am going to ignore, in entirety, any reference to any particular school of Taoism. As with any religion, philosophy, philology … schools of thought are the exponentiation of the ego.

Primarily, I am ascertaining my assertions through the earlier concepts of Tao, as lead back to its’ shamanistic roots, most likely upon the Yellow plains … when Tao was what was acknowledged, and for no other reason, than its’ very encompassing nature.

To wit:

It should be agreeable that form is manifest substance of Tao. Thus the myriad creation and the ten thousand things. It should also be agreeable that outside the human form and mind of separation and duality, the myriad creation lacks the ego to find its’ nature removed from Taoyin.

The problem for the human that seeks Tao: finding essence bereft of direct consciousness, and lofty ego, where even form bound actualization of Tao, is limited, thus not Tao.

The inherent problem then is form and mind, the former being mostly ignored, especially in modern, post-esoteric, post-monastic periods. All is laid upon the mind, dissolution of the ego, manifestation of “living Tao”. This is obvious to anyone having even passed through the Tao Te Ching, “The Tao that can be spoken of, is not Tao”.

The problem comes from when even a great Sage makes an assumption, that in conquering the mind, in being te of wu wei and wu li, in conquering and surpassing te tzu, one is still form. Form is manifestation, manifestion although connected inherently to Tao, is the lower form, the perceivable form, thus not the actuality of the ineffable and unknowable.

Most who seek the ultimate nihilism of returning to the source, origin, ineffable Tao, use manners of esoterics which are far too numerous to mention, and again, fall prey and victim to the schools of thought syndrome. Generally, with caution, it can be stated that some form of meditation practices are used or adhered to, not only for the release it provides from the shackles of living form, and others of like kind, but for those momentary glimpses of the ineffable.

We learn to use our subconscious, and shut down the crudeness of the conscious. This is what meditation does. Now with the filter removed, we can start to “see” reflections of Tao, absent symbols, images, voices … we engage, lightly, in the elation of nothingness. This also produces a problem in and of itself, one which has been personally experienced. It becomes almost narcotic-like, your desire to stay in this place, away from the harshness of form, to engage the elation, to succumb to the nothingness, primordial and pure.

But still you are attached to the form, even in so seemingly grand a state. These reflections of Tao, no matter how pure in sensation, are just that, reflections. These are the spirit of form speaking with Tao, and you are still just an external observer. Spirit to Tao can be related much in the same manner as Y’Shua to Creator … spiritual reflection that is not the entirety, itself. Ultimately, still separate.

So what is the end for this mode? How does one go from symbol, process and reflection to the actuality?

The spirit is the reflection, so the reflection must rejoin that which created its’ presence, to become whole, as in the reformulation of the shards, which become again, the mirror that shows all.

The thread that ties the spirit to the form must be severed, which for all its’ known horror and fear, does means death of the form, which never was anyways. One wishes to engage being, the vessel must be shattered to free the vapors to rise. The “you” and the “I” and “me” of form will have to be let go.

Form is forever separate from Tao. The form must needs be shed, to be Tao. No more symbols, no more images, no more allegory or metaphor … being Tao, is formless.

Hello Mas,

Thank you. A much needed statement, and much better stated than the clumsy efforts I have made. To be in being and not as being.

JT

Thank you brother tentative. But I would hardly classify your writing as “clumsy”. As a matter of point, your writing is so concisely stated within this particular realm, that it makes it difficult for others to wind their mind around the concepts … you leave so little room for interpretation … I believe that is what confuses some.

You are still the man!!! :sunglasses:

Hi Mas,

One of the problems with Tao is the language, which carries so much ‘cultural’ understanding that one must either become a serious student of the Chinese cultural history of ideas or dismiss Tao as one of those “inscrutable oriental things”. We’ve both read several attempts to both simplify and westernize what is Tao, and they still remain more complex than the average reader is willing to entertain. Perhaps that is all that is possible, since Tao contains the utmost simplicity and the utmost complexity at the same time, but I keep wondering if there isn’t some way…

Tao, Dhow, Dow, and Dao… What’s in a word, anyway?

JT

brother tentative,

Exactly! Frigging language … gah. Really though, is Tao any different for us, than Christianity to the polytheistic Chinese? My thought would be no, not really.

Maybe I am just daft, but there seems no “intended” complexity with Taoist philosophy. Conversely, it appears to be moving continually towards most simplistic, until it is all reduced to just “being Tao”.

Maybe it is just all the continual and pervasive need of greater and greater constructs, that unravels the Western mind in regards to Tao?

Hi Mas,

I think it revolves around the changes in thinking wrought by science. Western culture contained mystery and the now-defunct idea that there was the unknowable until science postulated that there was only the known and the yet-to-be-known. We are so enculturated with this that we don’t even think about the implications of such a world view. We say the word ineffable, but we automatically think it is something we don’t know - yet.

The understanding of experience is subtlely different than knowing anything. But the seekers shake their heads up and down in agreement and return to seeking. For me the very grounding of Tao is the realization that there is, always has been, and always will be, that which is unknowable, which in it’s own perversity is a knowing.

I’m reminded of the paradox of Lau Tzu saying that the Tao that can be named is not Tao - and then produced 5000 characters in contradiction to his own statement… :smiley:

At best, anything we write or say is merely the pointing finger…

LOL, that’s a perspective that never occurred to me, whatsoever. LOL, now I have no choice but to invoke siatd, against my own person … sad really … LOL.

“It’s a comical truism, you prat.”
someoneisatthedoor

How embarassing … LOL.

Mas,

We’ve painted ourselves into the corner. :astonished: