This is a very valid point, however I still have trouble with the idea that someone could possibly embrace a religion to its fullest, and be OK with the religions God calling the way they live an abomination.
Also, along the lines of left handed people being Satan, could a lefty become a priest? Could a homosexual become a priest?
Hello F(r)iends,
You know what else is there? A left-handed man doing the work of god.
It could be pointed out that the entire bible tells you how to live and offers only god as the reason why… Why should we refrain from adultery? Why should people refrain from homosexuality? If you don’t want to refrain, don’t call yourself a Christian or Jew.
-Thirst
I am curiouse whether the person writing this is gay or lefthanded or both and looking for reasurity that God will except him into heaven?
The Kingdome of heaven lies not without but within. What you do every day in every way determines your path. Religion and faith have nothing to do with such and canot express the greatness and eternal prosperity that truly awaits everyone, not just those who worship and have faith.
But everyone. It is a gift given not earned.
You have always had it and can never loose it.
So be as you are. And be Happy and prosperouse in the knowledge that you are “You” a unique creation designed with free will and the ability to acheive great things. Not what another wishes or tells you to be.
a christian by definition is one who believes in christ. one who believes that jesus was the christ, the divine son of god.
secondly, let me just say… i have had many friends who had denied their homosexuality for years, afraid the world would hate them, afraid that god would hate them… and with good reason. (about the world hating them, that is) it breaks my heart when one of them finally decides to embrace their true self, but gives up their faith in the process. it doesn’t need to be that way. all of these people are losing a beautiful thing - their faith in god - because of a stupid man-made rule that excludes them and makes them feel like scum. humankind can be so hateful… i simply cannot believe that god shares that hate.
Nah, unfortunatly, truthfully I can’t stand religion, christianity, or anything of that nature and I am a completely devout Athiest. I am however curious on how christians think, and thus the prupose of this thread 
Unfortunately, this site has become a place to just completely bash Christians.
The apostles of the NT as well as the prophets of the Tanakh were against homosexuality because they recieved revelation from God that He despises that act (notice that I say the act, not the person). Although a person sins, they can still have forgiveness if they repent. If they sin willfully even thinking that they can have forgiveness in the future anyways, then they can repent of that willfully sinning too. It isn’t people you repent to, but God who knows everything that is in your mind and knows if you truly mean it. So it is pointless to point fingers at God or people, because God is perfect and humans can’t send other humans to hell. If you live in sin without repentence, then you are not a Christian. In order to be a Christian, you must believe in Yeshua the Messiah and everything that He said along with the authority and revelation He gave His apostles. If you are not obeying the Lord then you are not a Christian, which means Christ-like. Christ is the Greek word for the Hebrew Meshia or Messiah.
So the answer is that you cannot be LIVING in homosexuality. Although there is one point a friend of mine brought up which I think is valid. He said that homosexuality is a sin like any other, and that although a person has those types of feelings, it does not mean they are going to hell. It is if they act out on those “perverted” feelings that the person actually commits the sin. Understand that I do not say perverted in the derogoratory sense, but only in the proper sense. A Christian believes that humans were created good, with good desires and other good qualities, but that because Adam decided that he wanted to be like God, knowing good and evil directly disobeying the command of God, sin entered into the world and distorted/perverted the original course of things. So understand that I am not calling homosexuals perverts, just their ways and desires perverted. The good thing would be to desire God above all things, and that is what a Christian does. If he does not, then there is no way that he is a Christian, and he must accept that everything God says is true (just to clarify God wanted man and woman to be united, another man would not be a suitable partner for man which God made for man).
Unfortunately, some people do not understand that God hating sin does not equate with God hating the person who sins. Sin kills the relationship between God and man. If the relationship is killed between God and man, and God is everywhere in heaven, then that person must go to a place where God is not, and He is not in the lake of fire (which God made for the devil and the devil’s angels). That is why Yehsua (God the Son) Himself decided to pay for sin for us by becoming human and becoming separated from God the Father and from His body (meaning that His spirit left His body, and He was not in communion with God the Father–hence “My God, My God, why have You forsaken me?” He was quoting a Psalm actually for those who don’t understand). When Yeshua died and was raised back to life by the Holy Spirit, the debt of sin which we owed with our lives and our spirits was payed in full, and all we have to do is repent and believe that He has made a way for us to be with Him again. A Christian believes that He is now in communion with God by the Holy Spirit living inside of him and teaching him, giving him special powers and abilities and responsibilities. the biggest responsibility is for that Christian to tell other people about how to come to God, by believing in Yeshua and repenting of their sin. If a Christian does not warn people, and warn them in the deepest love and concern for the other’s soul, then we are disobeying the Lord, which is sin and which we must repent of or we might as well as just walk away from Christianity altogether.
So it isn’t out of a biggot heart that I make my point clear that homosexuality is wrong. God loves homosexuals, but we as Christians are obligated by love for our fellow man to warn them of the consequences of sin and help them out of it. Wow, I’ve said a lot! Sorry, I just felt that I needed to explain why I say what I say in defense of the Gospel. I’m not embarassed or afraid to state what I believe and why, but I want to make sure that people understand that homosexuality is a distortion of how God intends for us to behave (and is thus sin), and that God still loves every sinner and welcomes the sinner with love and peace and with the Holy Spirit and spiritual gifts, which anyone can recieve if they will be willing to give up everything for the sake of the Gospel of Yeshua.
There is a lot to this matter, so I may have missed some points. Then again, whoever said “reality is simple to understand?”
This will probably be my last post considering there is just too much that offends me and the Lord in this site. It isn’t the viewpoints necessarily, but just the attitudes of the people here; I feel like if I don’t agree with someone, then they will just jump down my throat and verbally abuse me and that there is just open blasphemy which isn’t constructive to a conversation or argument. To me, that is a sign of an amateur philosopher. But feel free to contact me with a personal message only if you have any questions about Christianity (and you can be respectful) as it will be sent automatically to my inbox in my e-mail account.
We here do not bash Christians as far as I have read.
What we do is however, point out the wholes in this faith or belief. But never do we bash the actual person for believing in such. Somtimes we bash them for their inability to learn that man has confounded this thing you call gods word. But nothing else. And never the person.
Who is anyone to say what is or what is not but themselves? And who is to tell another the same whether a Mataphysical being or not?
God demands things of you and so do his followers(in their belief they are doing the rightuose). But what is rightuosness but based on a book writen and interpreted by the hand of man in this belief?
Man which is imperfect fallable and waring? Greedy, selfish, murdering? Holy, good, loving? Wanting, needing , and seeing?
As long as concepts such as these rule your faith and your belief you will never unerstand that which you hold dear, for it is neither and yet evrything. And is ineffable to those who can not see past the above veil which blinds them and has become known as “blind faith”.
A perfect being canot exist for everything is everything and a God who is both loving, careing, yet jelouse and angry, and yet still considers the latter as evil when preformed by man canot be a GOD for he is but as imperfect as those who follow.
fman:
Does this mean then, that a person should seek out a religion that tells them everything they do is A-OK, and base their faith on whatever creed is least demanding?
Shouldn't a real faith be at least somewhat transformative? If there really is a God, and there really is a true religious path, then we simply have to conform ourselves to it if we wish to be in the right.
Also, notice that you're asking a completely different question here. You've started by asking if Christianity would embrace the sinner, and now you ask if the sinner would embrace Christianity.
evensong
What do you hate? Does your God hate it too? Does your God bare any responsibility for hurricanes? You think that people should embrace their homosexuality, and keep their Christian faith somehow, even though Christianity teaches that homosexuality is wrong? You call that a 'stupid manmade rule'. What do you think institutions are (religions included)? What do you think their faith was in?[/i]
God does not modle Humans or make Them in his image, They themselves make Him who is their God in their image.
This is why God is so human-like why he apears human emotionaly and mentaly that of a 25-30 year old.
Or perhaps he is real and he did create this species in his image his spawn. But he would still not be a God. only the father of the Human race. Perhaps he was an earlier evolution when metaphysical evolution took place rather than a scientific one. And Gave life to a new species before he trancended into the metaphysical. He then decided to watch over humanity which he had created. Satan being of the same species but diferent race or created by this Jehova,yhwh. To serve also saw this and rebelled because he saw this and his intention to rule the Humans as slaves promising to show them how to ascend or (give them eternal life) if they worshiped and obeyed his desires and commands, and made proper sacrifices.
Or you can look at another view in the above post before this one.
Either way, you are not created by an all perfect/powerful supreme GOD.
Why? Because GOD’s as you would call them do not exist. Only very powerful metaphysical being’s. Nothing is all encompising or perfect in your definition. Flaws, weaknesses, deprevities, whatever you wish them to be called, are part of the universe and what make everything diferent from the next. Without imperfectness everything would be identical, in thought, in looks, and in name…Elohime Sabachthani Intanimach
“We” have spoken into creation and “We” are well pleased.
This is a verse from the KJV in Genisis it is not in all of them but some. And the jewish tablets translated have a ploral form of I on them in arymaeic and hebrew (Which means we, us). So does this mean that the “God” Single that is worshiped is actualy ploral or is this why the tetratogramine was invented because the church did not wan to admit it was wrong and there was not ONE god but MANY?
Suppose you could tie that into the whole ‘homosexuality and Christianity’ thing somehow, or were you just looking for space to Rant?
It was on topic.
Just because you do not comprehend the meaning behind what was said does not mean that others do not. It relates to everything that is said in the above forum. Just because the words Gay or Lefty are not mentioned does not mean it is not conected.
Oookay. I’ll do it another way.
Hey, The Watcher. I have a question for ya. Do you think it’s possible to be a full on christian and be a homosexual or left handed person?
C’mon, light, stick around. This place needs more thoughtful people like you. After awhile you learn to put up with the bashing because every now and again a really decent conversation takes place. Trust me, it really does. The level of discourse ebbs and flows around here, but I have come to believe (after almost two years here) that it’s worth sticking around.
No because homosexuals “deserve to be put to death”.
If you researched long enough you’d see which scripture.
I wont find it because I tier of the bible.
Maybe somewhere in “Romans”?
Here is what happened:
Bible writers imagined what a “perfect” man/woman should be like. [God tells women to be “in subjection to their husbands”, for example, because that’s what the male writers thought would be perfect].
Sexual rolls and acts were added to the “perfection” mold.
Christian fundamentals are firm idealisms made of dreams instead of realities. It’s all about what they think is perfect/true, and it’s not about what actually is true/“perfect”. Too subjective.
~
For a time left handed Isrealite soliders existed. This was a battle advantage, in that the enemies were only trianed to fight right handed enemies. The process and area of Isreal listed–I forget the exact details. Again, anyone could find it with enough searching, but YOU are not my problem. The claim about left handed people not being able to be Christians is fake.
~
Now, the pedistile:
(* Dan places cherry on cake *)
Allot of the bible’s claims about god and truth are fake, twisted or incomplete also.
So now we have a religious time-wasting contest on our hands, unless we walk away.
(* Walks away *)
So, you don't know anything about the Bible, but you're sure it must say whatever words you want to put in it's 'mouth' to shore up your argument? Here's the real scoop- you'd have to ask Orthodox Jews why they don't put people to death for all sorts of things like homosexuality and so on, because it's the Old Testament that advocates it. Now, a homosexual isn't any more 'worthy' of the life they've been given than the rest of us, but, Jesus talk a message of forgiveness, he preached against things like stoning, with a strict underscore that the Law hadn't changed- a person in the proper relationship with Christ would seek to change their own lives (repentence).
The answer is this: A person who is tempted by homosexuality can be a successful Christian, just as a person who is tempted to steal can be a sucessful Christian. All Christians still sin from time to time, from what I understand, so they may even give into these temptations now and again. The idea, though, is that they recognize them for the sins they are. It would be extremely difficult, if not impossible, for someone who considers homosexuality to be their ongoing 'lifestyle' and a key part of who they are, to be a good Christian. Now, if they've been bamboozled, and they honestly think there's nothing wrong with what they are doing, that's just a question of God's mercy.
So, before all this was written down in the Bible, men and woman just sort of stood around not knowing what to do with each other, and not having any sense of what a ‘proper’ relationship between a man and a woman was? Are you really going to put forward the idea that Bible writers invented the idea of wives in a subservient role to their husbands?
As far as left handedness goes, it’s been so long since any Christian (if ever) said that left-handed people couldn’t be Christians that I don’t see what the reason is in addressing the position. Is there anything in the Bible that condemns left handedness?
In answer to your question Uccisore,
Yes, It is possible.
But are you willing to give up a part of yourself that makes you who “you” are to be what everyone else wants, says, believs, or thinks you should be, Whether it comes from God, man, the Devil or whoever?..Or not?
And I apologize for the shortness of the last post to you I was…Distracted And ment to say somthing different but was unable to return to edit the post.
Read Romans chapter one.
Verses 26 through to verse 32.
( Romans 1:26 to 32 )
You can read that, & then come back n tell me what it says.
I didn’t “put words into its mouth”.
‘Sins’ that ‘deserve death’ sentance are ‘hated by God’. This includes homosexuality, even if the case was an inborn genetic ‘disorder’.
“I can do whatever I want and still be forgiven by God” [because I said sorry and I believe in Jesus] attitudes are not uncommon. It would take a long time to disprove how biblical this is, but many un-scriptural things are very popular and “orthadox” today.
None of that is my problem, though, seeing as God [YHWH] doesn’t have even half as much power as he claimed to have, and he cannot do much [cannot save lives, for example].
Feeling strong sexual attraction to the same-sex is not really optional though, and it’d be a life-long stress for many. I suppose it’d be possible to supress it, though. You’re right about what you say when talking about ‘forgiveness’ in this way, because it has to do with effort and eventual changes.
Actually it’s also a question of God’s retarded and failed attempt and creating DNA, because homosexuality is often [not always] genetic, and it’s God’s fault that we have our genes and bodies here today. [According to God’s lies, anyway, but God didn’t really “create” us].
That’s not what I said. I said that they wrote what they thought was best.
Being left handed is fine. 
Judges 20:16,17
Judges 3:15
As I said, about specially trained, left-handed Isrealite soliders.
Dan~, Read this. It’s Great facts that disaprove that belief based on historicle facts and provided evidence.
This has to be the most ridiculous question I have encountered recently. And Yes! I do encounter questions…I don’t just ask them.
Is it possible to walk on a tightrope and butter a piece of toast while putting a bandage on a small cut? Yes. This question is equally nonsensical as the above.
In the eye’s of Lord Jesus Christ EVERYONE is a Sinner…there are no Gradients of Sin…one Sin is NOT more sinful than another…ALL SINS disgruntle GOD!
You can be anything you want,
as long as you realise that
you must live your life as
best you can according to
the dictates of the Bible!!
Amen! (not a gay man, mind, just a-men)
Dan~
So you can do research when pressed, good. A couple questions:
Do you see the difference between “are worthy of death” and “deserve to be put to death?” Who dies, Dan~?
And by the verses you yourself cite, it also includes fornicators, boasters, inventors of evil things, those who are disobedient to their parents, decietful people, and those who are proud.
And there you have it. Either the Bible really and truly advocates the death penalty for all such people, or that’s not really what it’s saying at all. Who dies?
The same can be said for sexual attraction to people who aren’t your wife, or the desire to take things that don’t belong to you. Yes, every single human will be plagued by temptation to sin until they die. We aren’t all tempted by the same sins to the same degree, though.
Yes, I think we’re on the same page there, that’s what I mean when I talk about forgiveness, not the “I can do what I want as long as I apologize to Jesus later” attitude you talk about. The idea that God is a person is very hard for some people to grasp, but at the same time, it makes this all quite a bit clearer. Will a good parent forgive? Will a good child say, “I’ll just do this wrong thing and pretend to be sorry later, so it will be ok”?
Well sure, but if what they wrote down as being best also happened to be what everybody was already doing, then we have difficulties. The Scripture writers weren’t engaged in any particular effort to ‘keep women down’, or anything like that- they were just supporting traditional family life.
And I still don’t see what this has to do with the homosexuality thing.