The talk of extre-terrestials and UFOs and everything of the sort is usually something nobody wants to be associated with.
However, I’ll lay myself out for criticism.
Basically what I wanted to discuss is…
it is not very illogical to assume that our (our creator) God is in fact not a ‘mystical being’ but is actaully organic being.
This is not to say that this ‘organic god’ created our universe but the species of its kind evolved from a cell of bacteria, just like humans, and then evolved to the point where they could create life themselves.
Something that exist in a distant galaxy that has been around for billions of years, its kind has evolved to a point where they can perform ‘scientific experiments’ on other planets in distant galaxies.
They could use their technology to give Earth the ‘spices of life’ they started out with dinosaurs, and they decided to end that experiment, start over.
So they decided to start with a different type of organism, and perhaps as these lifeforms began to evolve…they were here on the planet, playing with the evolution of our planets life.
Perhaps, they even created the illusion that there was a mystical being called God, which was in fact them. Gave us religion and study what effect this would have on the development of our society.
Of course this is quite a ridiculous claim I make, I understand that.
In fact I don’t believe that this is true, yet sometimes I do.
Who can know for sure? Nobody.
But nobody can deny that this is indeed a possibility.
because its actually a bit more logical…
and also its not very often mentioned, in fact I have never heard the idea brought up on this forum.
It doesnt mean that I believe its true…I think that the theory deserves some recognition however. And I think that it is a possibility that should be explored a bit more.
gemty,
you seem a bit annoyed at this thread, I expected such responses.
I guess what I wonder about is why you feel it deserves recognition.
Is it because you find the theory interesting and worth thinking about? If so, that’s great and we can talk about it. Or, do you feel it deserves recognition out of some sort of feeling that it deserves to be recognised because it hasn’t been given a fair go by other thinkers?
I think what I responded to with irritation was your rhetorical use of the statement that no one could disprove it.
Proving or disproving it isn’t possible, and shouldn’t be the point. All these questions ought to lead us to a deeper understanding of ourselves, and of why these sorts of questions are important to us.
Instead, we as a society, and as a subpopulation on ILP spend vast amounts of mental energy trying to prove each other wrong. But we’re not asking the right question…
Proving or disproving god is a futile, wasteful exercise that doesn’t get any of us any closer to anywhere.
It is an interesting speculation, although far short of possessing the merit to be called a theory. And it’s really not much more logical than most other explanations I’ve heard.
The problem with these sorts of views is that they can’t ride in on the coattails of theism, and they don’t actually address the concerns of it. Is it reasonable to suppose that a powerful alien organic being created human life? Certainly, it would be very reasonable if we didn’t already have evolution and theology to explain such things. Natural evolution without reference to God or aliens appears to do pretty well on it’s own (appears, I say, because I believe it fails under closer scrutiny), so it’s not as though this alien is necessary to explain anything.
Also, an alien god doesn’t answer the questions that put God in the center of the debate. The universe still needs to start from somewhere, so this alien doesn’t address the cosmological arguments. Unless the alien created the mountains, stars, oceans, the telelogical (sp) argument is still left unaddressed. About the only reasoning I could see that would lead to the endorsement of this idea would be something like this:
Take it for granted that there is something, somewhere, which exhibits some of the qualities alleged of God. It is simpler and easier to believe that this something resembles what we already know- a living, breathing organism- and is not part of an unknown supernatural world with it’s own rules and systems.
That reasoning works, except for the initial assumption- why bother with it at all?
It seems to me to be a very different kind of philosophical issue than the usual monotheistic ones discussed here: God would be the creator of everything, whereas a god would be the ruler of something less significant. They also aren’t mutually related issues: If the theory you’re bringing forward were true, there could still be an Abrahamic God, for example.
I think Scientology believes human development was strongly influenced (and brought to Earth I think) by aliens, but upholds the idea of immortal thetans (like souls). Some forms of Hinduism also tend to have many minor god figures which rule specific traits or aspects of existence, but believe in a universal ebb and flow behind that (Brahman).
Coming back to this thread itself: I basically have the same question as gemty; because this idea really is entirely different from that of a universal God, what do you hope to look at, explore, or discuss with this possibility of a god?
Well, everyone seems to be asking me why bother with this theory…
The reason I find this so interesting is that I believe that there is great possibility and potential for living organisms.
We tend to underestimate what an living organism can be capable of, and I don’t think that humanity is the pinnacle of ‘ability’.
I think that there is something out there that is far more magnificent than what you read about in the Bible.
Something far more complex than what we simply seem to describe as a moral teacher and ultimate judge.
Of course it is obvious that this so called ‘God’ does not answer any questions as to how the universe was created…but I still found the idea an interesting one.
Perhaps this was not worthy of its own thread, but I have never heard any speculation otherwise as to the existence and nature of extra-terrestial life.
I do not think that it is not worthless to speculate as to what these lifeforms could be and what they could be capable of.
We do alot of speculation about what we commonly refer to as God.
You have your pantheist, your Spinozist, ect… And none of these are really backed with any real concrete facts they are just speculation.
Of course they have their roots in a traditional understanding of God.
My idea has its roots in my understanding that their are plenty of other galaxies out there that have been around for an extremely long time.
It is reasonable to assume that there are other living organisms that may have developed the technology or the somewhat supernatural ability to be able to take a suitable planet and give life to it.
It should not be ruled out that there is a good chance actually that this planet may in fact be a product of such a procedure.
That the dinosaurs make a bit more sense…although that it an interesting scientific subject in itself and tends to be one that confuses me.
What interest me most about this dinosaur subject is that dinosaurs bear no resemblence to anything that we see in our own evolutionary chain. Where exactly did they come from.
What this shows me at least is that life did not simply orginate on Earth, because if it was something that simply sprouted from this soil, then would it not have evovled in a somewhat similar fashion the second time around.
There are two different sparks that ignited two different evolutionary processes.
So where did these sparks come from.
Your Christian intelligent design believer will tell you that it was God that gave these sparks.
I was simply entertaining the idea that the God that gave Earth these sparks of life was in fact something that is living, breathing…real.
Many atheist astronomers will tell you that there was an asteroid or a meteorite that carried these ‘spices of life’ to our planet…however how did these spices get there in the first place?
Of course I must admit that this entire arguement crumbles upon the fact that there is no explanation as to how my theoretical alien god began its evolutionary process in the first place…
Eh, I still thought that it was an interesting subject.
You hit the nail on the head. First there is a deep psychological difference between believing in god and believing in an alien being acting and having god like powers. Ask any muslim or christian and they will feel offended and consider the idea insane. The idea in fact is very reasonable and MUCH MORE PROBABLE than a supernatural god. Our own civilization in a few hundred years has brought us alot of progress from horses to the moon to computers.
Extrapolate a civilization that evolves for a few hundred million years and they can reach PURE SUPERNATURAL POWERS. Second the god could very well be an alien and our entire universe is inside his computer simulation. He could have evolved from another physical world with other physical laws following high speed natural evolution. The possibilities and combinations are millions, we may all be a brain in a vat etc.
The really interesting thing is that if you state that everything of a given religion is true but in the end state that all the events of the bible were encounters with aliens, a christian would always consider it heresy even if all else remains the same. Just change the wording and the religion sounds wrong. GOD IS AN EXTRATERRESTIAL ALIEN WITH SUPER TECHNOLOGICAL POWERS.
What is in a wording ? Why is an “Alien God” less then a real god ? If he has all the exact same powers and attributes of the real god, what makes him lesser ? Maybe it is a simple aesthetic judgement, like when judging a painting, is it pretty or ugly, does it sound deep or shallow ? An alien god is equivalent to the real Abrahamic god, he just evolved from a supercivilization maybe from another physical world having other QUIRKY PHYSICAL LAWS. Maybe the real god was designed by a superior alien god having much greater powers.
I think Nietzsche said that we really have no way to measure good or bad, right or wrong etc. Our judgements in the end are arbitrary, we have no reference system except for maybe our own subjective pain/pleasure and how we carve out our path according to these measurement. But these measurements are arbitrary and pure quirks just like the laws of physics. If we were hardwired to not feel pain or to only feel degrees of pleasure or in any other of the billions of possible ways a mind-body could evolve or even be modified by direct scientific manipulation, then we wouldn’t even have the pain/pleasure measurements to guide us.
To be honest, it must be said that the choices of values, of religions, of aesthetic values and moral values are not based on anything at all, are simply bizarre arbitrary quirk selections people make by pure chance.
This means that even Nietzsche’s ideas are arbitrary and even my own are just as valuable (or useless) as Hitler’s or any religious fundamentalist’s ideas. This explains the infinite debates between believers and atheists or between right wing politics and left wing. These will go on forever without ever reaching any conclusion because each person chooses the conclusions he likes best. It is a random quirk choice not based on anything.
Even these ideas expressed here have the value of all other ideas and that value is ARBITRARILY ASSIGNED BY ME AS ZERO.
Even worse would be an infinite heirarchy of simulations. Universe A simulates Universe B which simulates universe C and so on forever. Or reciprocal simulation: A simulates B and B simulates A, each unknowingly, then who simulates who ? Where is the fundament of reality in this case ? Or if everything was in a Dream ? or a Hierarchy of dreams, or reciprocal dreams ? A is dreaming B but B is dreaming A…
Or we can see the combination of living organisms on earth as a given combination of matter-energy; then how many other combinations are possible ?
1.not a simulation
2.we must have a balanced mind body and spirit.
the unconscious mind , it is the only place we barely have control , but it is very fundamental if an event is inked unto the conscious reality , given enough time and space.
then you would be living your fantasies ,
but missing your reality that you came from.
the words your looking for is , solar and spiritual connection.
Suggesting Chimeras , not a very wise choice , they are very untamed creatures , because two minds simultaneously try to keep one hybrid body.
now we agree on something , well for the most part anyways.
We all did , way to go! , the Bible is a crappy artifact to end back in time , and what don’t you , you don’t listen , now look where we are at , some intellect you have there my friends.