God is fallable

How do you know he was being rhetorical?

Oh my God you’re right! I don’t!

Well that’s it then. Christianity’s over folks.

Along with Judaism. 3000 years of beautiful tradition, from Moses to Sandy Koufax.

Okay, move it along people…nothing more to see here…

Not so fast Jerry.
It might be that he is blowing the lid on both Christianity and Judaism, but on the logical tradition that emerged from Athens that saw God’s infallibility as a necessary attribute.
I believe that the Bible is written in the language of man and that the audience being addressed had a lot to do with the phrases and words used. Was God rethorical? Maybe, or maybe he truly had no idea. this is a subject often debated in Freewill discussions, yet no one and obviously you have not even tried, has ever convinced me that God must be infallible.
Logic demands it, but who is God then?
If we use logic in other parts of the Genesis’ we might ask: “God is infallible, omnipotent and omniscent, so how come the world took 6 days to be made? And if a day is like 1,000 human days, then why did his limitless power took 6,000 year to create?”
Also, don’t think that that question is so settle as of today. It is not a foregone conclusion and i think that theologians cannot take it as self-evident, just because it makes the Bible Logical. If we take it as self-evident that God foreknows our actions, then we have no freewill and if we lack freewill then what can God come to judge but Himself?
You may save his Supremacy and Omnipotence, as Luther did, by sacrificing His Mercy.

Thanks, omar.

Christianity and Judaism may remain intact?

Nice work. Take a little something for yourself out of petty cash and take the rest of the night off. Job well done.

It always seems to be the same. That people who cant put forward any rational arguments to make a point and instead rely on humour, have not the intellect to discuss the subject at hand.

Look behind the humor, sporty.

Hello Jerry.

— Thanks, omar.

Christianity and Judaism may remain intact?

Nice work. Take a little something for yourself out of petty cash and take the rest of the night off. Job well done.

O- Is that sarcasm in your tone?
Do you believe, Jerry, that the Judaism you see today extends without difficulty back 3,000 years? That the book of Genesis is that old, or that when the book was inked, based on some oral tradition that the words faithfully rendered the life and words by Moses?
And what of “Christianity”? Is it 2,000 years old as well, give or take a few decades? So single-minded, a perfect and whole, deserves the “y” rather than “ies”. Sure, sure; how beautiful are the feet…
Remain intact, perfect and whole? Intact since when? They are beautiful names…
I hope you have some answers that might enlighten us all.

Sarcasm? Moi?

Well, a bit. But only towards our new friend oldphil. Essentially I was agreeing with you omar. You know very well from our conversation elsewhere my appreciation for the “ies” rather than “y”.

Your point on the philosophical implications of terms such as “fallibility” is a good one I think. And it gives room for a continuation of the traditions. There is more to scripture than meets the eye. This is my point, and I think it is yours as well, no?

But alas, I fear I “have not the intellect to discuss the subject at hand…”

Hello jerry.
Modesty does not suit you. It fits as good a straight jacket on Houdini.

My responses to you are becoming less and less. I did not even respond to the last post you made on Christian Mysticism. I find no real issue of contention.
Alas, that might only be a reflection of our collective stupidity…

Lets be clear. I dont believe in God. He does not exist for me. He is just a concept that was brought about by prehistoric mans ignorance of the natural forces around him.(What prehistoric man couldnt explain must be the work of a supreme being). He attributed these forces to various all powerful deities. God is just an evolved version of those first Gods. Now we know how these natural forces work, how can religion still exist if the reason for its creation has been proven to be false.

God sentanced all of his children to death for one act of disobediance.

Nice father, real nice.

The one thing I never understood was why God lies about the fruit of knowledge.

Explain that one Jerry?

First off, I’m an atheist. So when I say what I’m going to say below don’t think that I’m defending or even commenting on the question of whether or not god exists.

I think Jerry makes an excellent point… hunting up a quote from genesis does absolutely nothing to prove anything about god.

Seems to me that when an atheist reads the bible and says “man, this is bunk, the bible is so unreliable” he also loses the ability to use quotes from the bible to disprove things. If the bible is bullshit (which I’m not saying it is) its gotta be bull both ways…

If the bible is an unreliable source, its unreliable all the way around. You can’t pick and choose, using the seeming disproofs while ignoring the proofs.

cheers,
gemty

How do you mean He lied?

A

You’re all right, omar. I am happy to be stupid with you. :smiley:

Because god is a liar. When we die he will send everyone to hell no matter what religion anyone followed and no matter what life anyone lead. He will then laugh his head off singing out loud “I AM A LIAR, I AM A LIAR”.

By the way the tree of knowledge of good and bad is actually the BIBLE and all other holy books, koran etc. God doesn’t want us to read them or know anything about them. Those who have read anything in the bible will be the first to go to hell, because he said so in his book, BUT BY THE TIME YOU READ IT AND GET IT, IT IS TOO LATE AND YOU GET HOSED.

But if he is a liar, then he lies to himself and then he himself goes to hell. Is God then trapped in hell forever ? But if he has unlimited powers how can he have any kind of interdiction ? Is matter independent of God ? Then there are many metaphysical objects.

Then Hell is Paradise for God because there could always be a worse Hell, so even the most painful hell is still a Paradise compared to the worst. If God is a Liar then he lies by stating he is a liar thus a double negative is a positive, he says the truth.

The real problem is that unlimited power makes no logical sense since how could he use it against anything ? There must be something limiting his power otherwise he couldn’t do anything as everything is already achieved.

How do christians feel about Determinism/Free Will?

Also,
Christians will admit that some stories in the bible are metaphorical and meant for you to lead a better life. Could it be that all of it is metaphorical, including GOD?

How about this… maybe the God of the old testament was just a limited and infallible version of the real true Source of all things. Maybe He was conceived out of wedlock and therefore only had limited power (explains His jealousy). Then since He was conceived this way, His mother was punished and forced to redeem herself by giving of herself to those who are now being conceived under her fallible son. This son then is now the God of the world, and he controls both the good and bad sides, the opposites. Then, since He was so jealous, he told adam and eve they couldnt eat from the tree, because then they would eventually get as much knowledge as Him, maybe even surpass Him and have Life like the higher Gods who were infallable. But then, maybe it wasnt a serpent who “coaxed” eve, maybe it was a dove who told them they should eat, in order to trick the God over the world. The dove was sent from the real God so man could overcome this God of opposites and regain their true birthrights. How about that huh…huh?