Dear Drift:
As engaging as the discusion could be about what does happen after we die, I believe that more empirical would be to discuss what happens before we are born and even conceived.
For example, do you have a memory of being in your mom’s womb? Do you remember what it was like going through the birth canal? Or, before you were conceived, where oh where were you, in the egg or in the sperm that fertilized the egg?
Chances are you will have no memory of any of this stuff, and perhaps had no thoughts whatsoever. What this demonstrates is that the thing that matters is related to your body. Before you had a brain, there was no “you”, and so, consequently, when your brain snaps it’s last synapses, there will be no “you” after as well.
Sorry!
Does that bring me fuzzy feelings? No. But does it all rest on what I feel good about?
That my friend, is a generalization. It depends on what theism. I’m assuming you’re refering to Christianity. I guess it would bum some people out, a great guy like you not chosing redemption. They might even call it a waste. But there’s only so much a Christian can do to care about someone going to Hell. They can try to convince them there’s a way out, but it your case, you’ve made your choice, which can be made void if you so chose. I don’t know anybody from any religion who’s bumed out about how they know a good guy but he hasn’t chosen the path that they think will get them into heaven. But like I said before, people can only care about another person’s soul’s wellbeing to a certain extent.
Eternal estrangement from God is how someone once put it, no lake of fire, no crazy tortures, just you, alone, with no one to keep you company, for all eternity.
Then there’s that one guy who said that hell is just this desert where everything is illuminated by this dark, blood red color. The sand is the same color and it’s all flat. Off in the distance you see a mountain with clouds above it and light shining down on it’s peak. No matter how long you walk towards it, you never get close, it stays exactly the same size.
I like that better than any other “firey lake” description.
It really looks like i got some attention with this one.But i must set the record straight.
if you think i think your going to hell,then perhaps you should read this.
omar, i belive life can only come from life,with the execption of god.it is very hard to comprehend my own existance,and i have to bail out many times. the best i got is comeing from other humans for generations without hereditary memory. which sucks because we’d be hypher experienced with it but… so each new one born is overcome with the mystery of:why.
notice how he says:judgment not damnation. i’d like to point that out.
i put his quote of jesus in here because i thought someone asked me how i deal with death but now i cant find who asked me this,so maybe no one did.i was reviewing the lower column of the post reply page.
also someone may say “prove it!” i cant do that the way you’d like. those arguements tend to go no were,just look at other threads in ILP. the way i feel about proving god to people who wont listen is on my sig somewere.
also ~dan said again alot of accurate things about my beliefs on his last post.i dont know why, i thought he didnt like my beliefs?
i cant say dan’s description is 100%, but you can read about my beliefs here
http://www.watchtower.org/beliefs_and_activities.htm.
I thought resuurection of the dead went against 'God" , what in his right mind thinks he can just pick up a/the necromonicon and just summon people as intended , isn’t that more of a self-contradiction then empowerment?.
i mean now that’s like saying “God” is the one and only necromancy “God” like there all pulling the strings secretly behind freemason work and stuff like that , i mean , right?.
if i’m wrong , go ahead and say so , nothing like a little critizism in the morning.
Hello Drift:
I read this response to what I wrote in a post you made: “omar, i belive life can only come from life,with the execption of god.”
Yet how does that relate to what I said? I do not deny that life seems to come only from life, but in the end Drift, Is water alive? We’re, were fat-free, made of 72% water, so when we say that we are alive does that mean that everything within us is alive?
This words “Life” and “Alive” denote very obscure concepts. Some have given the adjective to computers and to the Earth as a whole. My point was not to debate from where life comes, but from where the “Self” comes, which is what is important, because in our selves we find our “Souls”.
I do not care about hereditary memory, but your own memory. If the Self, that which you feel to be “I”, is eternal, and therefore immune to death, then you should be able to easily wrestle from your memory the memories I asked about. The fact that one cannot reflects that the self has a direct relation to it’s supporting organic system. When the body ends, therefore, the mind, the self, the game-show you can call "I’, ends as well.
Perhaps you might say that like the universe, our selves are created, have a beginning, but do not have an end. Fine, but then how could you explain that life starts without it’s soul, without “you”? Again the body brings the soul into existence. Can a mind exist without a brain? Experience shows that it cannot. Can the brain exist without the mind? Surely, this is evident.
You may still continue to believe whatever you please to believe, but understand that all these scenarios of what happens after death come from within your imagination and may not matter at all when you die, as you share the same destiny with the atheist.
You have perhaps felt that this is an injustice, while the atheist simply saw it as “Life”…
Ok, so you are trying to make hell seem less “hell” like. Here is the news as I see it. We just don’t know what death is like, or what happens after this conciousness. We only can reduce what we think is logical, and then what we need to keep us happy. People come up with different ideas here, depending on where they are born and their experiences.
I am not an athiest, theist or any other label, though many people think I am kind of agnostic. But this is how I deal with death,
I think, if there is a god, that god would not be an “asshole.” Therefore I doubt god would play, “which religous club and order did you belong too?” (Like some elite entrance to an ivy league school.) No, I think god would care more about who you are as a person, and how you treat others etc?
Many fundamentalists say, “well you can’t change god. He is still just, and your going to hell buddy.” The problem with this fundamentalist idea is that they can’t describe god realistically or logically anyway, nor do they have substancial proof that “their” god is the right god (unless they have biased sources) so, they obvioulsy can’t tell you about gods attributes.
So, I hope that god is not an asshole, and if he is, I don’t want anything to do with him/her/it anyway. (I try to surround myself with non-assholes)
But, I do hope that if there is a god, he/she/it is probably not an asshole. (if we are his/her/its creations, it is likely that he/she/it cares about us, like a parent. However, this all just my probability.)
so therefore, I don’t worry much about death and god issues. I try to live my life the most moral way I can, and be happy. If there is a god, I’ll find out, if not, I will just go to sleep, (hopefully after a good, happy and fullfilling life.)
To be free of anxiety, it is important not to worry about things which are not in our control, and take control of the things we can control.
this is how I deal with this issue. But I am young, 26 years old, and I assume that as I age, I might change perspectives etc.
I am an Atheist. I view, accept and welcome death as a final end. I think of it as simply going back to non-existence - just as before I was born. It is nothing to fear. The only remarkable thing is that while we are alive, we have evolved into beings that can actually contemplate our own existence.
Angie
People who are a bit too accepting of their own death will be removed from the genetic pool when dangers roll around.
Fear of death is a virtue because it causes us to not want ourselves and others to be destroyed by problems in the future of humanity. Enough fear of death & concern about death will save our species’s future.
Yes.
And?
People who are a bit too accepting of their own death will be removed from the genetic pool when dangers roll around.
***I think you mistook a lack of fear of death and a realization that death can be something to welcome (when there is no quality of life left) for suicidal tendencies. Let me assure you, an Atheist has every reason to want to survive as long as possible since we believe THIS is all we get! As for my own survival mentality - I have a law enforcement background - if it has to be you or me…it’s going to be you.
Angie
For me, it’s kinda like it doesn’t matter if I don’t exist anymore, because someone else still will. Everyone, everything, to me seems to be the same at it’s very core, and only different because of its environment. You’re pretty much a me who grew up in a different situation. So I guess you could say I believe in a form of reincarnation, almost pantheistically.
I feel the same way about this question of atheists coping with death, the implication being, “why dont you believe in God/an afterlife then you’ll feel better about death?”…as though just wanting to believe something can make it true! When we die we’ll either transcend this sac of grease and bones or we wont be in a position to care. I strongly suspect the latter, but who knows.
pxc- I agree with you somewhat. I do believe everyone elses character is only different from mine because of different circumstances, experience, and environment. I hypothesize that if I grew up exactly the way he/she did then I would’ve came out exactly the same. It’s a good thing to remind myself. It became a lot harder for me to hate another.
And with regards to death:
I’m not worried about a hell. It’s possible that there is a hell and that the bible is true. But if that’s true, then God didn’t want the use of logic. He preferred blind faith and I never really had a chance anyway. If there is a God, and he is reasonable, then I don’t have to worry about a hell because there is no way I could be held accountable for my beliefs. A lot of people are still not understanding that our beliefs are not of our control. So in the unlikely event that there is a judgement day, I will simply say “You are omniscient and you knew exactly what it would’ve took to save me”. And if the bible is true his only option is to say: “I only wanted to see you burn”.
Outside of this unlikely punishment, I don’t fear death. I fear not living. I hope I get a chance to live before I die.
[quote=“sjstudy”]
pxc- I agree with you somewhat. I do believe everyone elses character is only different from mine because of different circumstances, experience, and environment. I hypothesize that if I grew up exactly the way he/she did then I would’ve came out exactly the same. It’s a good thing to remind myself. It became a lot harder for me to hate another.
Right… and what is our soul, except our essence… our “ness ness” (as in essence of essence)? So I almost see a sort of universal soul.
to answer the original question of death . I feel that only our body ceases we do not. We are energy and energy only changes or flows somewhere else it does not cease. That is the interesting part of death. What happens when you open that door. I think I will wait.
The more I thought about your statement, the more I came to realize that the true ‘threat’ to the future of the human race would be those of religious faith. They tend to believe that if mankind is meant to thrive, exist and progress, that an outside force (God, if you will) will see to this. An Atheist believes there is no “savior” or deity looking out for the human race or protecting us as individuals…so it would be reasonable to me to say Atheists would tend to perceive themselves as responsible for dealing with the problems which threaten mankind’s survival. Think about it…which would you rather have for a doctor — a doctor who believes that if it is God’s will you will survive or a doctor who believes it is his responsibility and his expertise that is your only hope of survival? I would prefer the latter, for sure!
Angie
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I chose to become atheist once
And there will be those raised as non believers , who tried to hold onto that non belief , but can no longer believe there is no creator . And so the wheel goes round and round
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i agree with your rationalization.and i think the thiest and the athiest are basically going to the same place,but with a different outcome based on thier deeds.
i mean the one bringing them back has a purpose to it.we AINT bringing ourselves back.
and what i say here may be brought back to “does god exist” again…
i was makeing a thesis on that,but i stopped because i was doubting it’s usefullness. for now…
in conclution,i see athiests dealing with death as rationalists.
i see thiests dealing with death with faith.
now if we could only combine the two…
Assuming free will exists on Earth and we’re being judged upon it and we do good in God’s eyes and get into heaven, will there be free will in heaven?
In my eyes, Atheists look at themselves as just another animal, where as theists believe they’re special. Having no proof that I am more special than another animal, I am an Atheist.
I’m not as selfish as to believe my life means something more than what it is. I am my parents’ rejuvinated self. Just like they’re their parents’ rejuvinated self. I will die when I become absolete, and my children will go on to live and continue the human race.
Take a flower for example. What is the purpose of a flower? From what I know, all of its life the flower strives to grow and make more of itself. There is no flower-Bob, or flower-Jim. They’re the same flower, raised in different parts. People are the same species. Just like there is no flower-Bob or Jim, there isn’t a person-Bob or person-Jim. We’re all the same. How can one be judged when we’re all the same?
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Don’t wake up only to go to sleep.[/size]
Do you deal with death? You take it.