Has Moderate Islam Done Enough To Stop Fundamentalist Islam?
No, they’ve done nothing.
Yes, they’ve done enough.
No, they’ve done some, but not nearly enough.
They’ve made an effort, but there needs to be more and it needs to be more effective
0voters
Do you think that muslims who don’t agree with the terrorists who are ruining their religions reputation have done enough to condemn and separate themselves from those who mess things up for their own religion? I don’t think they have becuase if they had spoken out enough becuase if they did there would hardly be any recruits for the terrorists to get. I haven’t heard enough Islamic leaders, political or religious, speak out enough to have any affect on the wackos.
I am sorry, but personally I think that this post is not so much about religion as about Politics and society.
I believe that Muslim moderates have simply taken the safer road. It is not an open society. You simply cannot criticize a person with an AK-47. Because no one can secure their safety, moderates stay silent rather than risk themselves, or more importantly, those they love.
Also, and this again, has nothing to do with religion, is the fact that the line in the sand divides two sharply defined parties. There is right now no moderate middle. It is either with us or against us, and this is from all sides. A moderate may feel that he is betraying his religious brothers if he speaks against them.
In the west we have learned to strike out on our own, but also there is less repercussions from doing so. The believers in Islam face a further challenged not found in the west. Christianity was founded by a would be king strung on a cross. By contrast, islam was founded by a conqueror and thus cannot distance itself from the necessity of war as christianity has been able to do.
We find war as contrary to Jesus teachings, but totally regulated and prosecuted by the Prophet. So what can a moderate really say?
I would never feel that I am betraying my religious brother if I speak against him. Anyone who soils Christianity’s reputation is no brother of mine. People like them have ruined the Roman Catholic Church’s reputation and becuase of them they have been portrayed very unfairly. The same goes for Nazis, I have 50% German, I was relentlessley teased by my classmates about being a Nazi even though I had never said or done anything. They actually BELIEVED that I was one and thus, I was invited to 3 Bar/Bat Mitzvahs in my seventh grade. It was a long time ago, but it was the worst year of my life.
As for part two, why don’t the gov’t and the religious leaders speak out against, separate themselves from, and punish those who do their religion wrong. I don’t understand people who say “It’s expected that many Muslims don’t like Westerners because they view us all as terrorists.” Clearly people who make these statements are more educated and moderate than the fundamentalists and yet they don’t realize that their inaction is making Western stereotypes of Muslims even worse.
— I would never feel that I am betraying my religious brother if I speak against him.
O- But then you’re not a Muslim. Christians made the night into day with the light of their stakes and even today the christian’s passtime is deciding who is and who is not saved.
— Anyone who soils Christianity’s reputation is no brother of mine.
O- The Muslim who speaks against his brother is thought of as wrong as he who exploded a bus full of children. I had a guy from Morrocco work for me once and this was soon after 9-11. He had a though time at work, but i wanted to understand what was in the mind of this muslim. It was wrong, I thought, to judge him by the actions of a few as others were doing. He admired my gesture, but never abandoned his defense completely.
— As for part two, why don’t the gov’t and the religious leaders speak out against, separate themselves from, and punish those who do their religion wrong.
O- Because that would present them as targets and Zionist, traitors etc…
All of this may be considered wrong, but leaving the situation to Westerners isn’t doing much good. There’s only so much effort that the West can put out, we’ve got to meet half way on this one.
As for your comment on Christian passtime, I find that insulting, and I know alot of people who would find that insulting. Wasn’t there a time where if anyone spoke out against the Church they’d be burned at the stake? How’d we ever get past that? If Christianity can get past the Middle Ages. I’m sure that Islam, not without some hard work like the Christians had to do, can render fundamentalism nearly benign.
If you believe that Christians were forced to give up thier violent ways then do you also think that the same tactics need to be used against Islam in order to ensure success?
Read the Koran. It is a very violent book that justifies killing for any reason at all. Hence a religion that says you can kill for any reason must be completely abandoned. It is very different from all other religions as it only talks about violence and punishment and killing. There is absolutely no hope at all for Islam-Muslim-Middle east. It will be war forever.
— As for your comment on Christian passtime, I find that insulting, and I know alot of people who would find that insulting.
O- Well, I am sorry and at the same time not sorry. It is what I see, and I call it as I see it. Christianity’s mission is to make sinners aware of their sin, of the consequences of their sins, which in turn discriminates who goes where.
— Wasn’t there a time where if anyone spoke out against the Church they’d be burned at the stake? How’d we ever get past that? If Christianity can get past the Middle Ages. I’m sure that Islam, not without some hard work like the Christians had to do, can render fundamentalism nearly benign.
O- We may not see the night lighted by pyres, but that does not mean that the battle with fundamentalism has ended, only that the state is no longer involved. Growth about what methods are unacceptable have not translated to growth in our ability to accept what is “Other”.
— If you believe that Christians were forced to give up thier violent ways then do you also think that the same tactics need to be used against Islam in order to ensure success?
O- I agree with you. I believe that Islam is right now caught in a mentality that is Middle Aged. They see history as still connected to glory days. They still feel the pain of the Crusades, even though this stuff happened long ago when no one now alive was even conceived.
By this, they defer responsability of their failure to an outside world and preserve the dignity of their people as victims rather than as perpetrators of their own demise.
It is not easy, I suppose, and even in the west we see minorities that see their failures as the result of another’s actions rather than their inaction.
I think we in the west may, from time to time, be forgetting that we have a very influencial media. Who exactly says, that the moderate musilims are not doing enough to condemn the extremists?
The media could show lists and lists of ‘everyone’ who condemns extremists, but why would they? Why, when they can just show our (western) leaders condemning extremists and aid in rallying us behind our leaders’ great cause.
I have seen Muslim leaders condemning extremists in Australia and in the Middle East on television. Twice in the Middle East and probably around six times in Australia - I’ve have also seen those who praise the extremists on television, how many times? …more then I can remember.
Its just more interesting to see those praising extremists then those condemning them, and news programs aren’t about telling everyone everything that happened - they have ratings to worry about.
I suppose what I’m trying to say in this all is; I believe the Moderate Musilims are doing enough, but they simply dont get the same coverage as those who praise extremists.
Well omar, I am happy to know that we can agree on something. They use their situation to justify their actions and they try to keep the situation the same( to a certain extent) because otherwise they’d lose their reasoning. Things get worse when Americans help the fundamentalists out by blaming their situation and not the people who commit the crime.
America has really messed up BIG TIME. They have created a world full of enemies, there is not one country that supports the US, most only pay lip service, in all south america most people blame the US for all their problems, etc.
The Bush administration is the worst IDEOLOGICAL one the US ever had, just creating an ever growing list of enemies. They threw away loads of money for a war that cannot ever be won, they have really made so many mistakes that there is no hope of them ever recuperating.
Both Islam and the US have NO HOPE AT ALL, THEY ARE REALLY LOST FOREVER.
man…this thread is bereft with judgemental statements. not very proper Christian. Now…most people do misunderstand the Islamic culture simply because it is not their own. Most people also forget the things which have been done to the Islamic people by Western culture which would correlate into a point of view in which it is West vs Middle East. The Muslims discrimination while they were in Europe, discrimination in India (most likely due to its attempt to Westernize), Judaic Fundamentalist, and lets not forget the Crusades in which atrocities were done on both sides. So, when one properly reads the Qu’ran one sees that the war is justified when one strikes the blow unto the Islamic people. As far as acting as if the Middle East is the only place wrought with dispair we most assuredly are forgetting almost the ENTIRE African continent. Therefore in closing, I believe we should not meddle in affairs which are not our own and maybe Kant was right in saying “There is no justice in this lifetime”.
If enough was being done Islamic fundamentalism would be reduced to a more benign state.
Again, people blame the situation entirely, not the people. How come there aren’t any Christian terrorists who live in Palestine or the Middle East?
The Mohammed cartoon contraversy was the most eye-opening thing every. When someone made a painting of the wailing wall spelling hate, there weren’t any riots and deaths. When a museum exhibited a cross suspended upside down in a tub of the artists urine, there were no bombing. Yes the situation contributes, but ultimately it is up to the person to decide whether or not to strap on the bomb vest.
"If enough was being done Islamic fundamentalism would be reduced to a more benign state. "
Judaic Fundamentalism is one element which has not been factored in as well as Christian Fundamentalists. But you are right the images of Muhammed setting off an entire religion seems absurd to us. And while our modernistic culture allows us to see it in a different manner the religion of Islam is roughly 1/2 the age of Christianity so perhaps it and its worshipers need more time to disassociate themselves from the icons which are entailed.
They just think that you can’t represent Mohammed in a drawing becuae you wouldn’t do justice to his amazingness. I understand that the iconoclasts of the Greek orthodox church doing that in refrence to God, but Mohammed was only a man! Yes a prophet, but born of two earthly parents. If someone wanted to get a picture of him they could have hired the best artist in the Islamic Empire to do it. The only reason you can’t draw Mohammed is becuase Mohammed was first and foremost a political/military leader that united/conquered the Arab people. When you do this you get political enemies, enemies who use the press and draw caricatures to ridicule thier political opponent. The rules on depecting mohammed are nothing but a way to prevent ridicule.
It is not Islam that hasn’t done enough, but the US and Europe. In order to wage a war in Iraq and Afghanistan and hope to win it, you need to invest BIG TIME. That means at least 1 million soldiers in Iraq and 1 million in Afghanistan. That means creating a police state that lasts 10 years in both countries. THAT ESPECIALLY MEANS GIVING AT LEAST 5000 DOLLARS A YEAR TO EACH FAMILY THERE TO SURVIVE AND GAIN APPROVAL OF THE OCCUPATION. But they want to win with some bombs and hoping the local kids who are almost starving create an army.
If these wars are to be won, be prepared to start spending extra billions of dollars BIG TIME.
Disgruntled is right W.C. If the extremists were really a minority and the “moderates” were really doing enough, we wouldn’t have the violence in Islam that is so painfully obviously there.
Thank you scythekain, I’m glad to see someone around here as common sense.
Don’t you just love it how our youth, the future of society are being raised to be victims? “It’s not your fault pudding cakes, blame someone else.”
We are raising a society of victims. The use of the race card is bull. It’s so much easier to blame the rich, the powerful, the majority and the white heterosexual Christian males for everything than to actually sit down and say,“I understand why they might be ticked, but what they did was entirely their decision and they are entirely to blame for their actions.”[/b]
not very proper Christian. Now…most people do misunderstand the Islamic culture simply because it is not their own. Most people also forget the things which have been done to the Islamic people by Western culture which would correlate into a point of view in which it is West vs Middle East. The Muslims discrimination while they were in Europe, discrimination in India (most likely due to its attempt to Westernize), Judaic Fundamentalist, and lets not forget the Crusades in which atrocities were done on both sides. So, when one properly reads the Qu’ran one sees that the war is justified when one strikes the blow unto the Islamic people. As far as acting as if the Middle East is the only place wrought with dispair we most assuredly are forgetting almost the ENTIRE African continent. Therefore in closing, I believe we should not meddle in affairs which are not our own and maybe Kant was right in saying “There is no justice in this lifetime”.