Why is it whenever a " christian " cant answer a question with a reasonable answer to put across their point of view they use the cop out of " it’s God’s will "
Whenever the question of why such a compassionate God can let mankind suffer all the war, famine, poverty and disease in the world, the answer is allways the same " It’s God’s will ’
This is such a cop out and just goes to prove that without a rational argument Christians are completely stumped to come up with any positive argument, let alone proof as to the existance of their so called " God "
Being compassionate doesnt necessarily imply activity. So, the answer could be, because its God’s will for all of us to have free will> Bam! Bada Bing Hoopla!
May I suggest Oldphil, that you at the very least bring something to the discussion. Ranting about Christians’ point of view isn’t going to enlighten any of us. If you are sincere to want to know why there is so much suffering in the world, you could always pose the question. Of course if you already have the answer, what need do you have to ask the question?
Because the world that we live in is preliminary, where the good is allowed to coexist with the bad. This is the cause of strife and suffering. And it will remain as such, until we pass on and enter the great threshing floor in the spiritual world, where the two are vastated (separated) and routed to their respective destinations. This in fact is what the book of Revelation fortells, the great vastation that occurred in the spiritual world regarding the Church of the Reformed (the Great Red Dragon) and the Roman Catholic Church (Babylon the Great Whore).
I’m starting to sound like a broken record, but I have to say it again: You set your own hurdles. It is your choice, oldphil, as to what competency-level of Christians you pose your questions to. Superficially, you seem unsatisfied with the answers you have gotten, but honestly, I think they (self) satisfy you just fine.
Lets be clear about this. I am not looking for answers as to why God allows suffering. What I REALLY want to know is why people who believe in God have nothing else to put their point of view across except to say it’s God’s will.
I understand the argument of free will, but I just cant accept that free will was given to us by God to destroy the very things he is supposed to have created.
Well, first of all, what's wrong with that answer? If God is sovereign, whatever is going on in His world must be His will to some extent. Or at least, there's plenty of Christians who could argue that way. Secondly, there are alternatives- evil can also be chalked up to human free will, which depending on your view of determinism, may be seperate from God's will, and the will of other spiritual agents, such as Satan. So there's several possible answers for why God allows suffering, but they can all be boiled down to His will, since He created the people and potential other entities that are up to no good, and created the rules of physics that make life hard once in a while.
So, I guess that’s the answer to your question- if it seems like there is no answer besides “It’s God’s Will,” that’s because God created everything, so everything that happens IS is will directly or indirectly. So, it’s the only answer you get because it’s the right answer for most Christians. There are a few Christians who argue that free will of other agents can defy God’s will utterly, so in those cases, there are other answers than the one you’ve complained about getting.
As to your issues with the free will defense of the problem of evil, I guess it’s not really my concern what you can and can’t bring yourself to accept. Is there anything that you’d like to say is wrong with the free will defense? You seem to value logic and reason, and I am a Christian, ready to engage you intellectually.
How about this then… we all are God. And we have the free will to destroy the same shit we created. <----- feeling like this right about now; it’s the truth though. We are limited knowing versions of God, and if a Christian cant explain themselves, they will just say its their will, through saying its God’s will. I mean, this is how I see it… If your a Christian, and something happens, then it has to be a part of God’s will right? Whats there not to understand? Its a position, and its logically coherent within the confounds of the religion. Become a Christian, and you too will believe. Be who you are now, and you wont. Either way, who is to say who is right? Not you or the Christian. So, in summation, whats your motivation? To prove your position, or to learn… possibly accepting a new one?
Throughout history “it did it” has been the answer for the unknown. For example: What caused the sea to be turbulent 2000 or so years ago? Posiedon did it.
I personally, thought of myself as an agnostic for a long time, because I thought something had to have created it all, but I was being hypocritical of myself. I was giving the old “IT” answer to something I don’t yet know.
But, when it comes down it, its all about faith. And if you have experienced that being you worship, then who am I to say you’re wrong.
I, personally have looked at the GOD issue on every angle, and am unconvinced of its existence. What do those who are convinced of GOD know that I don’t.
Do humans allow ants to suffer, or do they save them and help them?
Now you see that “higher species” can and will ignore “lower life”.
If there is a “God”/“gods”, it is reasonable to think that they don’t-give-a-damn about humans.
Alternatively, if a “Creator” created life on earth, “he” obviously let it all sit and evolve, without much intervention, because “he” wanted to see what it would do and become on its own.
Atheistically, combinations of all-loving and all-mighty undo themselves when applied to the modern state of affairs on earth, so that scraps the semantic ‘Lord’.
That is because “God did it” is the quickest, easiest and very oldest “explanation” in human history. Once people stop blaming “God”, and start looking for real explanations, they start to actually learn something.
If we take the bible clean-out of the theistic picture, and if we stop expecting anything human-like to exist within “God”, what are we left with?
Just try to remember that these Christians don’t believe in God because they can see or prove “him”, they believe in their “God” because of how it feels when they believe.
This is actually an emotional, not a logical argument–by them.
so true … but it applies to the others too not just the christians
i have always found as u do that despite their veiw of god they cannot explain things that happen that are too ungodlike… as u say … confused they call it gods will …just another hole in their swiss cheese religion
<----- feeling like this right about now; it’s the truth though. We are limited knowing versions of God, and if a Christian cant explain themselves, they will just say its their will, through saying its God’s will. I mean, this is how I see it… If your a Christian, and something happens, then it has to be a part of God’s will right? Whats there not to understand? Its a position, and its logically coherent within the confounds of the religion. Become a Christian, and you too will believe. Be who you are now, and you wont. Either way, who is to say who is right? Not you or the Christian. So, in summation, whats your motivation? To prove your position, or to learn… possibly accepting a new one?