Abortion don't favour life .....

Hi PetriFB

Unfortunately I’ve seen this to be true. Its effcts have been known to linger.

But the real problem IMO is that the life process itself is not respected leading up to conception, the quality of conception and the decision for abortion. Many have lost the capacity to respect the life process in favor of the acquired need to establish an image.

I have these angelfish that frequently spawn. They are good and protective parents. Somehow they have a natural respect for this living process of the continuation of generations.

A while back I learned something that shocked me but I’ve verified its truth with breeders.

Often breeders remove the eggs from the parents to get them to spawn again more quickly so they are raised artificially without this parental care the parents give. I’ve learned though that angelfish raised this way forget how to be parents and will often just eat their young. Angelfish fry are very small and undeveloped when hatched. There really is no nervous system tospeak of. I have no idea how the parents pass along these skills but apparently they do.

Learning this about angelfish I thought how much has been lost about respect for life and human young simply because of not being practiced with the spirit these fish seem to have. Naturally when meaning as regards the passage of life becomes lost, acts like abortion appear normal for many.

I fear that far too many people romanticize child birth. Granted I don’t believe that abortion should be a way to escape responsibility. But it’s the free-will aspect and brain which make us the way we are. A brain is a survival tool used to calculate that which would be best for us. The act of conception is fascinating but it is not as if humans are the only beings capable of it. We are certainly not the only animals who devulge in physical pleasures for pleasure alone.

I do think that it should be a woman’s choice and to rationalize a struggle against it is not taking into account a woman’s body and choice.

Here is my take. And it’s cold and to the point.

Its murder. Its DNA is human so there is no mistaking that its life. Just because you like to use a term called fetus that is nothing more than a label during a stage of development means nothing! From cell 1 to cell Cazillion it is human.

If its a woman body and her sole decision, then caring for and raising the child is the her sole responsibility as well. If a male, father or not, decides to help then good for you!

I wonder if you can take an Eagles eggs away from the nest? They are endangered! But I thought until birth nothing is life! oops… looks like a grand standing double standard!

Not to missunderstand why some people would want an abortion in the case of rape, incest, or whatever else I can think of is not beyond me, but I fail to see why it is now the unborns fault and should now be killed for it!

disclaimer I have no issues with abortion for life saving reasons… however… this decision should be made by a panel of Doctors and NOT the Patient! Unless they have a License in Reproductive Health! The 30+ million killed already shows that health reasons are only a back door loop hole for abuse whereas only less than 1% would have warranted abortion for health issues!

I am fine with abortion for any reason I love kids too much. I would rather see a hundred dead fetuses in a body bag then one abused dead child. For me life is quality not quantity.

If you truly felt that way you would be in support of punishing the evil people. I am willing to bet you would rather let a child molester out of jail to molest again rather than allow 1 baby to live!

In fact you just stated the same! I only provided you with different words.

You also wimped on my remark for if its all a womans choice how do you justify making men financially resposible for a child?

Well you would lose that bet because I prefer the death penalty for molesters. Infact I would prefer they die the way they harm their victims.

And a man is only financially responsible if he did not take precautions to prevent the pregnancy and or if he acknowledges the baby at least once. Why should the women be soley responsible? although for their own sake they really ought not leave prevention to the men.
Also if the man acknowledges his paternity he bears the responsiblity, but, only half the cost not most the cost. It takes two, but, if the father does not want, nor acknowledges the child but, the woman does then she should bear all responsiblity.

That is a load of B.S. LOL

I am in favor of abortion for a wide varaity of reasons.

Women must have the choice because they are responsible
for the child for the first 18 years of life. If the responsibility
is too much or the women can’t support the child, (support involves
not only money, but love, education, support among other things
a child needs to become an adult) then the women must
have the choice to keep or not to keep the child.
Abortion by the way is not murder. You cannot call
a fetus a human until birth for the simple reason
that miscarriages can happen quite late in a pregnancy.

Kropotkin

Ok… it is apparent that I took you for too much of a liberal based on your posting. I will retract my statements regarding death penalties concerning molesters. You have my appologies for being overly presumptive.

I do how ever dissagree you with you vehemently about mans responsibility. If the choice of abortion is womans own then regardless of intent or action the onus of child rearing is upon the woman only, plain and simple. You can’t have your cake and eat it too!

I have found that in the debate, the phrase “its my body” comes up. No one cares about YOUR body we care about the one in yours! The one that, unless protected, will be killed by you!

In so many ways there is no mystery about why abortion is nothing different and a serial killer arbitrarily taking someone’s life against their will. I suppose if the killer sedates their victims into unconciousness then you can’t really call him a murderer. There was no one to object to the death of the victim… not even the victim!

This is it in a nutshell. Because people value their own selfishness far beyond reproach of anything else they create a lie in their mind and against everyone else to make abortion seem somehow… sane!

In the end evil shall become good and good shall become evil. Abortions were considered wrong back in the day… I dont suppose that little tidbit means anything to ya?

reread my post about mans responsibility. It should only be his if he acknowledges it or absolutely does nothing to prevent it. If a woman chooses the baby should live then the man can choose his responsiblity.

I think both man and woman is responsible to prevent pregnancies if they do not wish to be parents. If the dude wears a condom and or uses spermacide then why should he have to be responsible if she chooses to keep the kid? But if he goes in there with only his horniness on then he must bear some responsiblity for his foolhardy action. Genetic testing ensures that the correct father goes with the correct kiddy unless he is an idiot and trusts the woman’s word soley.

See I like that… “If the woman CHOOSES the baby should live then the man can choose his resposibility” You sound like a female chauvinist.

My point is that I dont think the man should EVER be responsible unless he chooses to be, under signature with a notary of acceptance of responsibility! Thats just the level of equality that should be imparted. The life of that child is maintained arbitrarily by you then it needs to stay that way for the rest of its life! You dont need any responsibility from the other 1/2 DNA that was collected to bring that egg conception! Its your choice, and yours ALONG in all its entirety!

You can kill it before it is born, when why not after?

Not chauvinist just impartial.

Look, My husband and I were 4 months engaged when we found out I was 4 months pregnant. we heard the news at the same time. My first thought was abortion, we could not afford a baby and my career was just starting. But, I saw his face light up and he smiled a huge smile that he thought I did not see, he turned away to regain control as he turned back he said it was my choice it was my body so my choice. He did not realize that he took away any choice I had.

Not chauvanist just impartial.

If you can make a baby and you do nothing to prevent it you must bear some responsibility. Men are not stupid, they understand how babies are made they also know that if caught with their pants down they have to pay the price. Squirming out of it is wrong and immature. But, if he does try to prevent the conception and she chooses to keep it , it is hers.

Hmmmm…

What if he rapes her? What if she’s underage and he molests her? Should he then be responsible? Or, should the rape victim, already traumatised, be further stigmatized?

Additionally, if he can’t be held financially responsible in a legal sense for the care of the child, (essentially a denial of his role in the pregnancy), can he be held criminally responsible for the rape or molestation?

cheers,
gemty

As I stated before we romanticize child birth far too much in our culture. We are aware it is a biological process and nothing more. Granted you may have sentient minded feelings regarding the child but…they are just that. Women should have the choice and it has little to nothing to do with the male and his financial responsibility.

“I have found that in the debate, the phrase “its my body” comes up. No one cares about YOUR body we care about the one in yours! The one that, unless protected, will be killed by you!”

Wow, that is so female empowering. Misogyny should be long gone and I assure you this will get you all the ladies my friend.

In nature animals kill without regard the “alive” children. For instance, when a male lion takes over a former pride leaders harem he often kills every cub which carries the former leaders genes. And the females do nothing to prevent this. Now, if this were the case of the baby actually being “aware” then I would see how you could construe it as morally abject. But since we live in a society which should no longer feel this moral obligation to a simple biological process why should we not allow abortion?

Would you like it if a female decided whether or not you could treat your cancer? Simply because it is an “abomination” to her morals and unnaturally extended your life or ended the cancers life? And yes I compared cancer to a baby because in the biological sense there is little difference besides the end result. The mass production of cells…that is all it really is…sorry to break the “speciality” of birth but we are far too advanced for this to be an issue in my eyes unless you wish to slow your moral point to that of a Puritanical influenced person.

whether or not to have an abortion isnt the real issue here. We have to accept the fact that we do not live in an ideal world.

therefore we have to accomidate the positive side as much as we can. Even though it may be “wrong” to have an abortion, it is better to legalize abortion, even if the mother is underaged.

Even if abortion were illgeal, there are still some percentage of mothers who would want to perform abortions themselves, which is very dangerous.

Parents who want abortions are usually financially and/or mentally unprepared. If the parents were not allowed to have the abortion simply because it was “wrong”, then the baby has no choice but to stay with these kind people.

If the feminists will maintain that the issue of abortion shall remain with the individual themselves then there should never ever be any forced responsibility on the males part! Regardless of rape, or pedophilia! The standard sexual assault charges should however be retained! It will be up to the female to decide if she will keep or kill the child!

It seems you want to remove men from this subject as a convenience. Dont you realize 1/2 that child is the mans? Just because you are the one it needs to grow in for a time does not mean its ALL yours! Take your pick… is a man involved or not!?

Abortion is muder and I believe anytime a man whips it out he is assuming complete responsibility enforcable by law if need be, but not under the circumstances presented by the feminazi “its my body and no mans business” religous beliefs!

The feminist movement wants nothing more than to turn men into total slaves of women! I can’t say that turn about is not fair play, but not all men have treated their wives with disrespect! And in many cases the disrespect a female gets is a lot of their fault!

Well people are going to drive over the speed limit anyways which is very dangerous… so lets not have any! Thats what your logic implies.

Just because someone is going to break a law we should just not have it? come on guys… why is everyone presenting logic that is biased and preferential to female chauvanism? Bigotry runs deep in the pro-death movement!

Astral,

With all the exclamation marks you are getting me excited! And I sense you have the not so subtle undertones of a man who fears females in power (perhaps some mother issues). But as I said before why even worry about it because the law was put in place to romanticize child birth putting us in a place above the rest of the natural world. As far as the man’s say in whether to keep the child hopefully his opinion is weighed in but it comes down to the woman.

If abortion is murder then you are not allowed to take any antibiotics, have an immune system, and consume any anti-oxidants because the poor bacteria, virii, and even your own cells are being murdered!

“And in many cases the disrespect a female gets is a lot of their fault!”

This one is my favorite…this is often a defense used by pedophiles, rapists, and wife-beaters. “They wore this dress so…they looked at me this way so…”. It is men like you that create the hostile environment the women fight for a place in. I know this is off topic but my god man take a look at the world and realize that there is no black and white and that women DO have it rougher in our world. So reexamine your ideals, your arguments, and open your eyes.

                                -Satori

No what women want is for men to start taking responsibility for their own actions and MORE importantly their own fertility. Either start picking better partners, or make sure your fertility is covered from every.single angle, but get it through your head: YOUR choice comes BEFORE conception, once the deed is done your CHOICE has been made.

The choice to bring a new life into the world or end it now resides soley and completely with HER.

That’s just how it is.

AS for your little rant at the bottom about women deserving being treated poorly. Pull your ego out of your arse. I very much doubt the inner workings of women is something you’re all that familiar with let alone appreciate. We are not chattle, we do not deserve to be treated badly and it is not for US to ensure that men keep control of themselves.

You’re a big person now dear, mummy doesn’t need to tuck your iddy biddy self into bed anymore.

A couple of responses:
1.

So let me see if I understand what you’re saying here… unless women allow men to have input into their decision to have an abortion men shouldn’t have to support their children even if those children are a product of rape, where the woman had no choice about getting pregnant.

Hmmmm, an interesting perversion of the “no taxation without representation” argument.

Actually Astral, I’m male. Lift your game or I’m not going to talk to you anymore. I can’t believe you actually thought I was female just because I argued against you. That is absolutely hilarious.

By the way, 1/2 of the child isn’t the man’s, because you can’t cut the kid in two to take your half.

Furthermore, while you claim that the inviolability of the female body is a result of “feminazis” (an ugly word) you fail to notice the exceptionally small amount of independence we give to women around the world. You also fail to notice the incredible bias in our world against women.

Did you know that 70% of the world’s poor are women?

Did you know that even in western countries although women’s life expectancy is longer, their morbidity is much higher?

Did you know that between 4 and 8% of pregnant women in the US are abused while they are pregnant. (Maybe men aren’t the best advocates for what should happen to babies)

Fact of the matter is, whatever you believe abortion to be, murder or otherwise, men have absolutely no claim over a woman’s body while she is pregnant. There is only room for one being with full rights inside a woman’s body, and that is the woman. The fetus cannot have full rights without trampling the rights of the woman.

Or perhaps you are keen to trample the rights of women?

cheers,
gemty

BINGO!

Let me point out that your gender makes no difference in this disscussion and I do not care if you think it does. If you would be “intelligent” enough to figure out my statements you would have known better! I never refered to you as a female. I can see why one as short sighted as you would take that stance. But when I was making my post it was a general listing, nothing specific against you even if you were a female!

My point is that liberals (male/female) use that argument to try and shut men out of the debate! We have just as much rights to that childs life as the female does! If she did not wish to be faced with this decision she should have kept her legs shut! (disclaimer: now that I know I am dealing with an ignorant, I am adding that the previous line does not include instances of rape, incest and the like).

And as for the rest of your post… well what can I say. Since you think its best to allow women to commit murder in some vain attempt to give them an illusory perception of rights, why would you care about a person who would starve, kill, or hurt themselves out of some masochistic dementia?

I dont really think you give a crap about female rights! Why? Because I doubt you would commit to war to take out these dictatorships to stop their tyranny over women! I would! But I bet you wouldnt, and would even try to stop me! So you have no grounds for a claim that appeals to the better treatment of women! (if you would go to war to protect women, then you have my apologies)

Its murder. Plain and simple.

I also notice that liberal mindsets are never about equal rights! Its always about someone rights overrulling others!

some examples are suppression of religion. The religionless appear to have more rights than the religious, and there are MORE religous people than otherwise!

Businesses have more rights to own property than private owners. (especially for tax revenue)

The woman certainly has more rights than the unborn (whom has no defender)

The ciminal has more rights than the victim.

As you can see the unborn should have just as many rights as the woman carrying him/her should! Both a right to life!