Saint John Coltrane

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Psalms 33:1-3

Rejoice in the Lord , O ye righteous: for praise is comely for the upright . Praise ye the Lord with harp: sing unto him with the psaltery and an instrument of ten strings . Sing unto him a new song : play skilfully with a loud noise .

I want to be a force for real good . I know that there are bad forces here that bring suffering to others and misery to the world , but I want to be the force which is truly for good . - John Coltrane

II Samuel 6:5

And David and all the house of Israel played before the Lord on all manner of instruments made of fir wood , even on harps, and on psalteries , and on timbrels, and on cornets , and on cymbals.

The emotional reaction is all that matters . As long as there is some feeling of communication , it isn’t necessary that it be understood .

• John Coltrane , 1964

It has been said quite often that before he recorded A Love Supreme, Coltrane was again spoken to by God , and it is not difficult to imagine how one might interpret that .

The beauty of each composed note on that record speaks for his ability, in 1964 , to give up his every energy to another spirit

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I like coltrane but love supreme is truly overrated.
Its high minded crap.

Kropotkin

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John Coltrane’s " A Love Supreme " is an elegant masterpiece . A flawlessly conceived suite with spiritual overtones , "A Love Supreme " features the saxaphonist at his most reverend and focused.

Its all about perspective . If your unfamiliar with Coltranes work , there is this link where you can sample it , and buy it if you like , which I recommend of course if you are enthusiastic about Jazz . Part 1 , acknowledgment is very good .

amazon.com/gp/product/B00006 … nce&n=5174

Om

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I probably didn’t make myself clear.
I like coltran means I listen to coltrain.
I like his stuff with miles and some of his solo
albums. I listen to a lot of jazz. I even like
Louis Armstrong early stuff, such as hot fives and
sevens, such as “west end blues”.

Coltran’s love supreme is still garbage.
but a lot of jazz is garbage.
Miles Davis is the single greatest jazz player
of all time and some of his stuff is crap of
the highest order.

Kropotkin

I must vehemently disagree with the premise of this post. John Coltrane is not a saint - to an old sax player like me, he is God.

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I love Miles Davis , but As I say its about perpective , and yours is flawed . Its a matter of evolution , not everyone will agree , since we are all at different levels , however for your information , John Coltranes school of Jazz is the highest level you will find currently for overall spiritual development inside of Jazz musicianship , not Miles Davis , although he was something of a saint himself .

However his private life let him down , Coltranes had too , but he changed that ,whereas Miles did not . If your disagreeing as a Jazz musician , to put in simply , you know nothing at all about jazz .

If your disagreeing because you dont like Jazz too much , then you still know nothing about it . Sorry to have to break it to you that way , but hopefully you will understand . And understand that whoever you are , you cannot know more than all of the worlds greatest Jazz musicians put together , who would agree with me . Even Archie shepp and Ornette coleman , most of the kings of freeform took their lessons from him .

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K: Coltran’s love supreme is still garbage.
but a lot of jazz is garbage.
Miles Davis is the single greatest jazz player
of all time and some of his stuff is crap of
the highest order.

Light: I love Miles Davis , but As I say its about perspective , and I believe yours is flawed . Its a matter of evolution , not everyone will agree , since we are all at different levels , however for your information , the Coltrane school of Jazz is the highest level you will find currently for overall spiritual development , not Miles Davis , although he was something of a saint himself .
However his private life let him down , Coltranes had too , but he changed that ,whereas Miles did not . If your disagreeing as a Jazz musician , to put in simply , you know nothing at all about jazz .
If your disagreeing because you dont like Jazz too much , then you still know nothing about it . Sorry to have to break it to you that way , but hopefully you will understand . And understand that whoever you are , you cannot know more than all of the worlds greates Jazz musicians put together , who would agree with me . Even Archie shepp and Ornette coleman , most of the kings of freeform took their lessons from him .

K: I guess I haven’t been too clear. I love jazz. I listen to a lot
of jazz. MILES is GOD. Coltran is ok, but certainly not in miles
class. What is the best selling Jazz album of all time?
It is certainly not coltrane. Miles “Kind of blue” which was
recorded the very weekend I was born. And you can
certainly make the argument that miles was the most
influential jazz player of all time. During the 50’s
miles was the highest paid jazz men on the planet
earth. Miles, not coltrane, is is the best
jazz men ever with Armstrong a very close second,
with Duke Ellington a third, and coltrane is
not in the top 5.

Kropotkin

While Giant Steps was a monumental recording, it is Tyner that I find most amazing as a pianist. I have had the priviledge of seeing him perform. I was born in 1958, cruelly too late to have seen Coltrane. I have heard nothing of either man’s music that did not strike me as genius.

I have given up playing, but am considering going back to it - if I can find a baritone sax that I can afford. I always played tenor. Never sounded remotely like him, despite some youthful and naive attempts. I used to work out with some guys in the basement, playing everything out of the Real Book. These were Berklee guys, for whom the Real Book was the Bible. Try as I might, I always reminded the guys of Lester Young (they were being over-generous, of course) and never Coltrane. But he was my inspiration, as he was, and is, to so many.

Have seen Davis, of course - sometimes I think that Coltrane died at the right time. Does help the rep to die well.

Sorry to digress like this. Coltrane is the alpha and omega to me as a musician.

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This is irrelevant to what is being discussed , Because Donald trump is one of the richest men on the planet does not make him better

If record sales are what we are judging things by then pop music is better than Jazz , boy bands are better than Miles Davis , think about what your saying before you say it

No he is,nt , he was a man like John Coltrane , only Coltrane advanced further spiritually , this is what you should recognize

Glad to hear it , what instrument do you play , how long for ?

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I know what you mean , what a trio , Coltrane , tyner and Elvin Jones . I think Mcoy tyner was amazing , but I see him as a disciple next to Coltrane . I believe J C gave him the concept , and Mcoy materialized it

I agree

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K: During the 50’s
miles was the highest paid jazz man on the planet
earth. Miles , not coltrane

Light: This is irrelevant to what is being discussed , Because Donald trump is one of the richest men on the planet does not make him better

K: Irrelevant? digression.

K: What is the best selling Jazz album of all time?
It is certainly not coltrane. Miles “Kind of blue” which was
recorded the very weekend I was born."

Light: If record sales are what we are judging things by then pop music is better than Jazz , boy bands are better than Miles Davis , think about what your saying before you say it

K: Jazz does not exist in a vacuum. People vote with their feet.
And we are talking jazz, not boy bands or pop music.

K: MILES is GOD.

Light: No he is,nt , he was a man like John Coltrane , only Coltrane advanced further spiritually , this is what you should recognize

K: “Advanced further spiritually” I am not sure how this
translate into better jazz. If you believe, you are a better
jazz player, is this your point? If it is, it is a dubious
point at best.

K: I love jazz. I listen to a lot of jazz."

Light: Glad to hear it , what instrument do you play , how long for ?

K: alas, I have two problems, I have no musical talent, tried a
couple of instruments, failed badly, and second, I am profoundly
deaf (born) which may have influence the first point. I would give
up 10 years of my life to be able to play the piano (which means
I would have died last week) but again no talent, but
that would make me a great critic? Right?

Kropotkin

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Exactly my point

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Lush Life is arguably Coltrane’s best work. He was a superb player and interesting character, but above all he is the beneficiary of an irrationally zealous fan base whose own personal identities are heavily vested in the Coltrane myth. The myth is greater than the man’s sax.

I’ve met many hyper “Trane” jazz enthusiasts and it’s my sense that they parrot Coltrane’s “sainthood” status because it is expected of them by their peers: jazz mob hysteria. It’s a common phantasm in jazz circles. passion

You see the same thing in fans of Miles Davis & Armstrong, too, as well as in worshippers of rock players like Hendrix. Many buy into the mythology.

Hi Phaedrus. You said, “You see the same thing in fans of Miles Davis & Armstrong, too, as well as in worshippers of rock players like Hendrix. Many buy into the mythology.”

Yes, that has been my observations too. passion

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True,but my post is more about the nature of sainthood than "cats"with goatee beards
It would be nicer if christianity had more saints representing it that were like him .I see no reason why his professional achievments,in the light of how limited things were musically before the 50s,together with his spiritual mastery should,nt be recognized as saintly.The point Im making is Christianity as we know it is far removed from the teachings of Jesus

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