Don’t evangelize on the board, please.
Why is that the religious people have no consideration for the free thinkers? If an athiest or agnostic has to be very careful about expressing their ideas without offending the religious people, should it not be the same case for the religious people?
The religious people seem to be so careless that they talk based on their belief so casually. But whenever an atheist or an agnostic says anything (which happens to be against the religions), it is considered offensive.
Everytime when the US president says “god Bless America”, I feel offended because all the three words in that sentence are wrong.
god, a supernatural entity that exists only in the faith of the religious people
bless, even if it exists, why should we have to grovel at its feet and it has to ‘bless’ us
and finally, if it has to bless, why then only America not the entire world? Is god a tribal specific?
A request to the religious people: please have the same consideration what you expect from the free thinkers. Or else do not complain being offended by their words.
I never said that people should not be allowed to express. All I am saying is the religious people should also be tolerant and respectful towards the atheists. I do not see that happening in the current society.
Alright Petri:
I’ll play your little game. See if you can answer me.
From your link (1st subject. I’ll address the others later in the order you’ve given them):
“Firstly I think that lack of thinking can be one great obstacle to why people don’t want to turn their eyes toward God and receive the eternal treasure.”
O- The will of man is nothing in relation to the Will of God. Man is compelled not by argumentation such as yours but by the Holy Ghost…
“They don’t want to find out the truth, or to come near God”.
O- What do you know of the hearts of other men and what they want or don’t?
"They don’t want to test the words of Jesus,and what he said about this matter:
- (John 7:17) If anyone chooses to do God’s will, he will find out whether my teaching comes from God or whether I speak on my own.
O- Have you sold everything you own and given it to the poor or is all you have words that ring hollow?
“Therefore, when we want to approach God”
O- But what is this want? Can you make others want?
“…we must first start thinking and contemplating”
O- No. The want preceedes any thought or contemplation. When you want, the necessity for thought and contemplation is obviated. The activities are slaves to that original want, not the want to them. Until you understand you’ll continue to upstage the hand of God in the hearts of men.
“We must ask ourselves, does God exist”
O- Why this question? It is a loaded question and must be stripped of it’s presumptions. Does what exist? Before you ask what exist or does not exist first define what is the criterion for existence and what is the subject that owns this predicate. Define God, in short. But before you go on to do just that, I yet must ask: How do you know what what this subject (God) is?
“…has God created everything”
O- presupposing that you can answer my questions, we again find loads of Christian mythology in your question that must be dispelled before a fair treatment can begin: Has what created what? The morality of the next questions is fantasy to me at this point. A Christian’s over-active imagination and “Ojalas”.
Second subject in your site:
“I was prejudiced and sure in my attitude and I didn’t even want to examine grounds for my belief (in other words matters such as the big bang theory and other similar matters, which cannot be proved experimentally, are based on faith – such as the view of creation is based on faith.”
O- There is faith in the uniformity of the universe which is invigorated through demonstrations, and another faith which is the Christian faith in that their Scripture is historically faithful and not just the wild ramblimgs of a man penciling down a dream. If I take you myth at it’s face value, by which criterion will I reject any other myth out there?
“Therefore we must understand, that the attitude of the “scientific” man is , in fact, entirely based on faith and it is no more scientific than believing in creation. They are both based on faith.”
O- Rather than excusing the faith of science, which I do not class with religious faith because of afforementioned empirical basis, I will ask you this: Given that faith is essential to all human thought, what settles the reason on one faith rather than another? Not; I said “reason”…
“Instead, the direct opposite of these Ephesians were the Jews of Berea, who themselves wanted to find out, if the spoken word really was true or not. They examined this matter daily to see if what Paul said was true.”
O- Once you have thrown out science as just another faith, another religion in need of justification, how do you or these men determine “if what Paul said was true”? If you were not there to see the dead come back to life how do you sift through the charlatans of the city and their tall-stories?
“If we have this same attitude, we will certainly experience clearness in matters.”
O- Actually your attitude throws darkness over everything and puts out any and all lights including it’s own. Science, Christianity, Judaism, Paganism are all faiths. Who can declare one faith true over the others? By what means can he permit his Reason such luxury?
“Secondly, when many stick to the previous kind of attitude and especially to the theory of evolution, they don’t actually even realize that they then claim, that Jesus is a liar.”
O- Jesus? G-d? Allah? All they all made liers or just Jesus? But interestingly enough what is the Naturalistic explanation in the Bible? The Bible states that God created everything, but not into the specifics of how this was done. There is metaphor, poetry, not science, observation but expressions of faith. I can find no real obstacle in accepting evolution as the vehicle with which what shaped life. Further, your focus on one scientific theory makes me wonder why not question how other doctrines, like geology also makes a liar of Jesus in your opinion?
“Certainly one or the other is wrong.”
O- Certainly, if Homer was right, science must be wrong. Or did you mean that if the Koran is right Darwin is the liar?
“Eternal life” is a natural attribute of the spirit.
Elements are naturally invincible.
I ask myself the same question, PetriFB, except instead of God I think Pot.
Why, oh why, don’t people turn to pot whenever life gets them down? Why do people take responsibility for their problems, when they could easily turn to pot, and feel much better about their lives?
P- Naturally will of man desires things, which are sinfuls, And best deeds of man without God are not sufficient to bring salvation for a man.
O- It is not that only his will seeks sin but that his reason, intellect and his entire being cannot, of itself, by itself, seek what is of God. Because of this, your posts here are of no use.
P- No I don’t. But then if they refuse to believe God, I know that they don’t want to believe God.
O- “I know that they don’t want to believe God.”??? Perhaps what you don’t know is that they want but cannot. Such is the Will of the Most High…
Belief, Faith, is not the result of a choice.
P- I haven’t sold everything, but I have given the poor what they need
O- It is not about what the poor need- you shall always have them- but what you need.
P- No I can’t, because we all have to do by ourselves our things and also what we want to do.
O- So why this post?
O- Why this question? It is a loaded question and must be stripped of it’s presumptions. Does what exist? Before you ask what exist or does not exist first define what is the criterion for existence and what is the subject that owns this predicate. Define God, in short. But before you go on to do just that, I yet must ask: How do you know what what this subject (God) is?
P- God is Spirit and Creator and Almighty.
O- What is a “Spirit” and how do you know that this actually exists? What is a “Creator”, and how do you know that this exists? What is almighty, and how do you know that this exists"? I do not mean just existence as a concept within your head; I mean external existence which you’ve experienced directly. Otherwise, let us allow the existence as well of the Purple Wombat. It too is a Spirit, the Creator, and of course, almighty.
P- Firstly you live in the world created by God.
O- Fantasy. You and I live in a world created by the Great Purple Wombat. But if you disagree, then how will you prove me wrong without disproving your own faithful claim as well?
P- I can be myth to you, but still God exist …….
O- How do you know what exists? Have you seen It? What is, again, a Spirit?
…but still, the Purple Wombat exists!
P- Jesus has saved me and through this I have receive a life in my hearts, and through it I have real relationship with God
O- Oh, Jesus has saved you? how tall is this “Jesus”? Is he dark skinned? Blue eyes?
But you say “saved”…saved from what friend? What was your danger? A real relationship with what? Again, what is a Spirit? Can you touch it? Can you see it? Can your hear it in your ears? What is it’s smell? What can you mean with a real relationship with a Spirit?..
P- God has set us one mark about the truth, which his His word (the Bible)… it define what is right faith and how we must believe to God
O- The Bible? You mean that old compillation of edited works by unknown authors, disputed until an Emperor, with an empire to unite, forced it’s final form? That book that includes books the Fathers rejected and took out the ones they accepted? That Bible? A Book that is so imprinted with the hand of man, with the vanity of scribes ( as Jeremiah said…) you call this His word? Have you ever read the Bible or had someone read it to you?
P- God thought that it is enough to tell, that He created … it is enough to me ………evolution theory is a big fairytale and a lie
O- And what makes you so sure that Genesis is not a big fairy-tale and a lie? How do you know that evolution is a lie? Have you lived so long?
P- Darwin misunderstood some things and Koran is a deception ….
O- But Homer is not a deception? How do you know that the Koran is a deception but that the Bible is not? That, I want to know…