zeus - I do not think that rights properly apply to beliefs. We coerce each other’s actions. We are, however, constantly trying to influence each other. Sure. It’s what we do here on this site. Not that it ever works.
tz,
Well, it depends on what good means, doesn’t it? It also depends on your method of change. If you decide to change my beliefs for my own good, probably ought to bring a sack lunch and a box of bandaids. 
Couldn’t it be called a form of rape if they refuse to quit or battery. I would think it could be. Especially when they refuse to leave your doorstep. Mothers with their kids in tow are the worst about it.
What I meant is, if you consider arguments to be consensual, should you continue to yell in the ear of someone going “lalalala” quite loudly and trying to ignore you?
No matter where you go you will have to listen to someone religion. You will either hear about science, philosphy, religion or something. It never ceases to amaze how one person or group thinks it their right to stop others from pressing their thoughts onto others in a flat out lie about seperation of church and state. Please show me where the church and state are seperated. NO WHERE.
Plus the simple fact that no matter where you come from religion or not, everyone has a right to their opinion and the right to express that opinion. You will find that the left are only for allowing thier opinion to be heard while they trample on the others.
One need look no further than public school to see this.
The church and state are seperated because a church run state is very, very shittily run.
Yes, but does a person have a right to hold an incorrect opinion?
The only rule is for there to be no established religion. The church can work inside the state day in and day out without being unconstitutional. As long as the Church follows the rules set by procedure then no rules have been broken. This applies to all things and not just religion.
Remember in many ways secularism is a religion as well. Just a Godless one. It has a set of values, traditions, and ethics. The only difference between it and any other religion is the claim “A God told us this”. Otherwise you are still trying to force your way of life upon others just as they are you! There are many denominations in the secular world just as there are many denominations in the religious world.
This is the fundamental reason for us to have a democracy. Well… there is no such thing as a democracy anywhere on the world that I know of. The USA is not a democracy. It is as Republic. The two forms of government are close but still vastly different enough to radically alter the course of a Nation.
In the end not setting up a TRUE democracy has still failed us. Until we get a true democracy we will for ever continue to destroy ourselves.
I dont see your point. Both the church and state are run like crap. It does not take them joining to accomplish this.
And yes… everyone can have an opinion no matter how wrong or right it is, even though we know that the typical liberal only wants their opinion known and the opposing ones stifled. Either way, if you just look at the numbers, media, history, and voting records you will find that general liberalism is trying to destroy america whether it knows it or not! And part of that liberalism is the claim of a seperation of church and state. I didnt realize we where supposed to have a selective government? One where certiand groups or creedo should never be allowed to influence.
Sorry but all churches regardless of their religion should be allowed to do as they see fit so long as laws are not broken, and since there is no law that states the seperation, You can obviously tell our own government has been breaking the law for a long time in this area. We can already tell the US government has long since overstepped its bounds but due to the average americans apathy, they have not been held in check by the 2nd amendment as they should have so long ago.
banning prostelyzation is a stupid idea.
Why?
it limits freedom of speech. You:
#1) do not have to let the mormons/JW’s into your home. If they knock on your door, you have every right to slam the door in their face.
#2) going beyond that, you even have every right to post no trespassing signs on your property. If you live in an apartment or condo, you can vote for the association to ban solicitation on the property.
#3) it increases the size, complexity and cost of government which is always a bad thing.
The state has ran itself into the ground without any help from the church. Most churches can run on WAY WAY less money than the government has and get way more accomplished, if they can’t they go belly up.
If they continue to harrass you, after you have told them you are not interested, than you can file harrassment charges. It’s not a form of rape unless they penetrate you. It’s not battery unless they physically harm you.
finally something a little more reasonable. The secularist who posed this idea of congress banning prostelyzation believes his/her ideas are superior to all the religious ones.
I agree with this as well. There’s nothing tolerant about banning behaviour because you don’t like it. BUT, it’s exactly what modern government (liberal or not) LOVES doing. Our government becomes more authoritarian everyday, do we really need another law in that direction?
Christianity had pagan roots/influances + Egyptian, Greek, Roman, etc.
You don’t care or is she secretive?
Very true about the pagan strain in Christianity there, Dan. The Church pretty much pulled a DC Comics style Crisis in keeping the same elements and characters and rearranging them for their purposes…
I was raised in rexburg, Idaho most of my life. It is 98% mormon, and I was convinced that I should go on a mormon mission after I graduated from high school, I was young, naieve, had buckets of community and family pressure to do it, and so I did it, like almost every other 19 year old male.
Let me tell you something from the other side of the fence . . . It sucks to be 20 years old and being out knocking on peoples doors trying to talk about god with people who don’t give a shit, and having hundreds of people be annoyed at you every day. If you think telemarketing sucks, think again. talking to people about god is more annoying than credit cards and we are face to face with the people and not just on the phone, which adds another much more “suck” points.
The young kids who are missionaries were propably raised mormon and are expected to do it for cultural reasons too and many will be rejected by their family if they do not do it, so many young mormon kids really don’t care to do it . . . Please be kind to them.
I saw tons and tons of depressed missionaries who were depressed, but there is a serious stigma against coming home early. It is like failing your whole life sort of a thing and also notions about being unrighteous etc. Again huge family pressure, and mormons have big families . . . it is a big deal.
One of my good friends growing up, didn’t want to go on a mission, just like I didn’t really, but the huge pressures of his family led him to do it anyway, he was so depressed when he came home, that he went camping by himself with his fathers gun and ended two years of misery with a bang. I went to his funeral last november.
all I am saying is, the people at your door may have mental issues or in the case of young mormons, not want to be there anymore than you want them there. Be nice, say no thank you, smile. mormon missionaries are told to be respectful . . . being respectful back is the way to go.
I remember once I was handing out pamphlets for a local candidate. He was incredibly so far left of anything that even resembles center it wasn’t even funny. We had no chance.
So, I’m out there handing out these little pamphlets and across the part there is a guy handing out Chick tracks and similar material. At first we kinda gave each other the evil eye. We each sorta figured the other guy was on our turf, I mean that was my space to hand out my propaganda.
As the day wore on, we both grew increasingly weary. It was the middle of a Wisconsin winter and those days are brutally cold. Well, we kept on giving each other the eye when, all of a sudden, I kinda cracked a smile. We were both doing the same damn thing after all. He smiled back and we walked across the park and exchanged out literature. I read about Jesus and he read about my candidate and the local progressive movement.
It was glorious.
Hello F(r)iends,
When in doubt about religion, turn to the voice of reason… Islamic Theocracies!
-Thirst
Holy shit, people still hand out Chick tracks?
Muslim countries ban proselytization because it would be other religions stealing away muslims. Muslims could not gain anything from prosetylization (who are they going to convert?), they could only lose followers to other religions. So, banning it has no negative effects on them and the positive effect of there being no chance of a Christian converting Muslims on a doorstep.
Correct, thezeus18.
Muslim nations are trying to ensure that their theocratic dictatorships don’t fall apart from outside religious influence. They ban proselytization for the purpose OPPOSITE protecting Separation of Church and State.
Precisely! How about attaching a rider to the bill that bans proselytization that forbids women from showing their faces in public too?
If anyone is offended by this, I apologize in advance, sorry.
Sweet, thanks for the recognition.
Hello F(r)iends,
Froberg, no need to apologize.
Don’t become a slave to polite society.
Speak your mind!
-Thirst
sirswedish - I am always cordial to mormons. They have invariably been nice young men, and, unless I am very busy, which I don’t remember being the case whenever they have come calling, I have no reason to be rude. I do not take pamphlets on the street, however, because I will have no place to put them, My pockets are usually full of knives, change, cigs, mil-spec paracord and miscellaneous survival gear.
zeus - this is not a matter of rights - if someone’s being rude, they are being rude. It doesn’t matter what they are being rude about. Not every behavior needs constitutional recognition. If someone is being rude, tell them to fuck off.