No you won’t. You won’t have any reason to say anything. If you acknowledged reaching a “state”, it would only prove that you haven’t.
Fine, I’ll just send the emails like I proposed earlier … LOL.
Okay, but I would have to meet one to understand.
With regards,
aspacia 
He was the head of the monastery, and very old. Maybe beyond old in western considerations.
I don’t think you would have to meet someone like this, to understand the premise.
If you are the best of a particular discipline, and you make it known, you will attract “followers” or people requesting studenthood, apprenticeship, etc.
Is that what you would want? Or would you prefer to be left alone, and continue your development?
Most people, (normative generalisation), would prefer to stay immersed, and not have the distractions. In my opinion, a standard human trait for those whose focus is directed.
There are people that reach a mental nirvana that affects their physical state also, through study and discipline. They see and know what others can’t grasp, they found a path. These people are few and far between, to say they have followers or disciples would be an error. These few people have students or perhaps more apropriate, children.
Even fewer still are those that would not teach what they know but, use it as power to control, they have followers, doling knowledge out only to be able to expand their power.
It is my understanding that to be able to achieve this Nirvana state it is believed that you must remove the trappings of human society, have no ties with others and turn inward.
So is the price worth it? What price is worth such a state of being? Sacrifice is needed for just about any endeavor worthwile but, how much is too much? Is it more of a crime to start down the path then weaken and forgo it? Or never start down the path at all. Why is there only the paths that have been found. Why can’t other paths to this state be found without such sacrifice? I believe there are many paths to this state there must be.
Kris,
I’ll have to send you some magic crystals and incense. 
I’ll let others explain my poor words, but my understanding suggests that one transcends when the path is no longer a path. There is nothing but isness.
JT
good god quoting and bolding a conversation to help clear parties up takes a while, are there any cheat ways to speed it up? I have always hated partitioning conversations and cutting out quotes, it mangles context to a degree, sometimes to a big degree. there must be a better way.
To get to “isness” you still must take and choose a path first.
Magic crystals Huh I will PM you about crystals you might be interested. Incense Yech, no thanks ,makes me sneeze.
Kris opines:
You may be right, but in seeing and moving from tree to tree, one may lose sight of the fact that they are in a forest. Forest and trees. Field and focus.
Is it possible that seeing both as one and undertanding the interrelationships is the moment when the path disappears?
I’m not a sage, so I don’t know, but it has occurred to me…
JT
Perhaps losing sight of the forest is needed for focus. And you can never lose the path you are on because your path always is wehre you are going. Once you get to isness do you, think all mental forward motion will stop and the isness that is you will just sit there? Or will you contiue your journey?
Kris,
Way isn’t a place. It has no beginning or end, there is no path. You have had many experiences where “you” disappeared and there was nothing but the doing of the moment. That is “isness”. In being, not as being.
Yes but in being you must still be doing or going or you will not exist. In being one circle is complete one balance achieved, but, what if there is more?
Kriswest,
The medium that one chooses to reach the Sage being is irrelevant. I believe this is what tentative is trying to entertain here. Not that I am speaking for him, but that seems to be the direction his symbols point in the manner he arranged them.
As for your question of “is the sacrifice too much?” For the greatest majority, yes, yes it is. There are no shortcuts, nor end arounds, nor quick sprints. Which is a primary reason why Eastern esoteric disciplines hold little interest for the Western mind … to see the trees and know that there is an eternal forest within them, takes forever, in human conceptions.
To achieve the level of resonance of harmony that the Sage does, is not easy. Even Y’Shua knew this … which is part of his “leave your mother and father, leave your worldly goods” lesson. If you live in society, then your life is “of society”, not of balance and harmony.
The two are quite simply not compatible.
Where in the Western perspective is “spirit” a nutritive, natural force that sustains the body by being a sort of balancing act between the dense, yin-aspect of one’s essence (often represented in sexual fluid) and the more insubstantial yang-aspect of one’s spirit (often represented in pure thought or mind)? You could mean something like the “Holy Spirit” of Christianity, but even then it is off because the Holy Spirit is protective and guiding, while qi can be harnessed to injure others, as well. Individual spirit is shen.
Taijiquan is a martial art that came about sometime in the twelfth century. Ancient Daoists had various types of qigong, which they divided into wai-jia and nei-jia (outer and inner “schools”) to live healthier and longer lives. There are plenty of nei-jia that aim to still the mind, but point of much of this is to “settle the cauldron” for preparing a good internal elixir that doesn’t boil over.
As a part dao-jia and believer in the philosophy of Dachengquan, I agree that the Daodejing does not recommend any specific meditative practices or qigong rituals. However, many of the passages in the Daodejing were later used as justifications for certain alchemical practices. For instance, to “know the masculine, but to keep the feminine” is a whole rationale for practicing dual cultivation and consuming a woman’s essence while a man preserves his own (I practice this, but not because Lao Zi might have hinted at it.). Of course, Lao Zi is actually mocking this practice that was probably existent during his time. The Daodejing also reads, “But who lengthens his life tempts luck. / Who breathes with his will is strong. / And virility means old age. / This isn’t the Way / What isn’t the Way ends early.”
There are Eastern formalists, so you would fail if you tried to contrast Western philosophy with Eastern philosophy along any lines that state, “Westerners are formalists, while Easterners are not.” Something like post-structuralism might be likened to Daoism (especially Zhuang Zi), so even then there are Western non-formalists who have come to conclusions found in Daoist philosophy. I hope you haven’t started on an essay already.
No, I’m sure you are well aware of the history of Daoism’s philosophical evolution and accumulation into the Daozang, so I’m not making any attacks at your readings.
I do have this to say. Zhu Xi is a good excuse to practice all three religions peacefully, but his contributions to metaphysics are wanting. Many people tend to follow the false idea that reality of Dao is a neutral point between the polarities of the world. Religious Daoist metaphysics counter this idea (the neutral point is Wuji, not Dao. “Dao begets one (Wuji) / One begets two (Taiji) / Two begets three (San Ti) / Three begets the ten thousand things.”) Philosophically speaking, though, all of the earliest Daoists since Lao Zi were critical of the concern over polarities and trying to find some balance between them. This was more of a Yin-yang-jia move, which was a separate school from Daoism at the time, and it would rightfully be a source of skepticism for Daoists who believed Dao was more elusive than a mere balancing act. The Daodejing and The Book of Zhuang Zi are openly critical of such a method to philosophy.
If anything, they are good counters to the Fichtean and Hegelian dialectics.
I think it’s fair to assert that Meng Zi wrote some of the book and had it expanded by his later students. The rest of them, though, are more questionable in terms of their origins. It’s not too critical if the ideas are consistent. In Yangism, there is a big perversion of Yang Zi’s ideas in the Lie Zi by Moists and Confucians.
The exact chronology is not particularly important, though. So long as we still have the arguments and the counterarguments, we have all we need to perform adequate philosophy.
Mas,
Nothing is compatible until the right formula is found. I see that you can.
Society is possesive, balance and harmony is nonpossesive. Society has trappings but so does balance and harmony just of a different sort.
Why not use trappings from both? Perhaps that is why there is both and others, to glean something from each to build one. I view that the existence of anything means it is there for a purpose. From the smallest subatomic particle to the universe and beyond.
This includes the energies from thoughts beliefs and actions and results. If it is then it must have purpose. If a thought occurs then it must have purpose. Each ripples it own path weaving and crating patterns. as does each action from each creature or even a rock being worn to nothing. What that purpose is may seem irrelevant but not on the bigger scale. One tiny pebble can cause a massive landslide. Just as one tiny sound can cause an avalanche or a leaf landing in a pond can cause the pond to die or change. Not seeing its relevence does not remove its relevence.
If I have a family then that family is for a purpose. When you remove yourself from your society you are creating a wall in your soul, rather then accepting you are removing and hiding it by sacrificing it to a psuedo nonexistance. the sage perhaps achieved an understanding of this.
To not utilize all is to waste and not be the ultimate of yourself. It is like having a million pieces to build one thing and to make this thing work properly you must use all the pieces correctly. But the kicker is the pieces are jumbled together and not even numbered and even better the instructions are as minimal as possible. And the most exciting part is you are given the correct tools to assemble this thing but not told how to use them correctly or what the hell their designated purpose is. Psst there is not a time limit.
So to me it is just a matter of solving a puzzle. I stumbled across this forum for a reason, I have interacted with people for reasons why? I am still figuring it out. Each person that has touched me here adds to me and benifits me. How ? Working on that as I type and think, and work and think and sleep and think.
The eastern ways are as crucial as western to cling to one is to throw away a crucial piece. It is like I have posted before I need a balanced diets for my body, as does my mind, too much of any one thing can be unhealthy. Example: Fanatics. Tooooooo much of one thing. If you wish to achieve balance and harmony then balance and harmonize your diet for your mental self.
While I can agree that some of Zhu Xi’s metaphysics are simplified (trying to link three religio-philosophies is no small task – when carving jade the final product is going to be smaller!), I would arguethat his linking of the Confucian concept of li (理) with Zhang’s concept of taiji was novel and insightful. I mean, Zhang already thought up a vehicle for uniting the three philosophies under one umbrella, but Zhu Xi took it that extra mile.
Though I do have a question: I always pretty much though that wuji was taiji, with taiji containing dong and jing while wuji was neither nor.
Would you mind expounding on the differences?
lady Kriswest,
Let’s use your analogy of a puzzle.
Tao is a puzzle of totality, what can be grasped, and what cannot. We know all the pieces are there, because everything works. The problem is, we aren’t completely aware enough to find all the pieces, to make the puzzle a complete picture.
The social puzzle, is a puzzle made by people, the pieces are always changing shape and color, and even if you get it to fit altogether, it’s not a complete picture, and the picture is going to go through cycles of falling apart, pieces not working, and it’s just an infantesimal picture, nothing like the whole.
I think if you look at the conversation between philosophemer and tentative, you can see that there is more than a singular level of Tao"ist" thought, and any Tao"ist" worth their salt is already aware of this fact, and investigates the arguments between schools of thought. Xunzian and I had a fine conversation about the Law and Social Law schools, and the interweaving of Confucian/Mencian schools of thought, not too long ago. As a philology, Tao"ism" has a plethora of levels, schools, and paths of learning … nearly as varied as human thought.
So now we are reduced to choices. As with any discipline though, there are those whose level of immersion allows them further progress, not open to dabblers. This isn’t so much about Tao"ism", but any discipline. Either you dabble or you immerse yourself.
It’s all a matter of personal choice, and your’s and mine are just different choices.
Okay 
There’s not a whole lot to explain in this, really.
Wuji is void, and so has all of the characteristics of what we might (paradoxically and affirmatively) predicate of something that lacks any value: neutrality, inactivity, and formlessness.
The step from wuji to taiji is usually one of affirming an affirmative and negative dualism, to differentiate something from nothing, and this produces our sense of yin and yang.
Taiji, however, has affirmative characteristics different from wuji, in that it is polar, active (interactive), and contains a form. However, according to one of the precedents of Huang Di – learning of wuji, which understandably is accomplished when the poles are totally balanced and you could not tell one from another – is not possible through observed phenomena, as those phenomena always contain offset and mutually present elements of yin and yang forces.
Now, this is all contained in the religious end. In Dao-jia, I hardly ever have to consider wuji because anything that might sound “negative” (like wu wei) actually has an affirmative conveyance (zi ran).