Dan writes
=D>
I have had the privledge to meet and know people from most religions
Learning their beliefs has always been interesting and a great honor and value to me.
The following explanations are in noway full or complete they are merely a type of summary. So please understand that.
Each person holds their reiligion different from even their fellows. No two people translate their religion the same.
Then there are what appears to be levels of belief also.
Devout, devoted, faithful, believers and then foxhole followers. And different degrees between all of those. Most humans seem to fall into the last three levels. the first two levels are the most interesting and complex allthough devoted seems more complex then devout.
Devout people don’t speak of having faith or having beliefs, for them it is as certain as breathing it is as much a part of who they are as is their soul and body. They don’t have faith, they know. Belief is reality beyond question. The way they speak of their religion is almost like they are explaining body functions to a child that should already know these things.And that explanations are being redundant. Sort of, it is hard to put into words how they do it.
Devoted have faith and belief they speak of beliefs and having faith, They are very religious, very strong followers and speak of their beliefs much more freely then the devout. Their religion is not a part of what they are but, it is held very close and very loved.
This is how I percieve devout and devoted
Both levels seem to take a special type of person or maybe personality.
Perhaps one is born and one is forged or perhaps life experiences create both. What do you think about this?
I wouldn’t use these terms exactly but I agree that there is a certainty of belief in some individuals that precludes any rational thought. I would put myself in this catagory. I don’t have any doubt that Christ is the only way and truth and that those who follow other gods are decieved. However, I often doubt my own ability to follow Christ which is a different matter ralated to practice rather than theology.
The problem for people like me is that is is very difficult to express your faith in terms that make any sense to a non-believer. It would be like going back in time and trying to explain a CD player to someone from medieval times. They just don’t have any frame of reference that would help discussion.
Why does religious devotion interest you so much if you yourself are not religious? Is it something that you would like to have or not?
Kriswest quote - I have said I am not religious I don’t believe in religions. I don’t believe in religions for me.
Good for you matey, neither do I 
I’m happy just to be Jesus’s buddy -
He said - “You’re my friends if you follow me. I don’t call you servants, but I call you friends, for everything my Father told me, I’ve shared with you.” (John 14:14/15)
I think the division between devout and devoted is the difference between thought and action.
The devout truly believes in their faith, while the devoted acts in accordance with their faith.
For example, I could classify myself as a devoted Confucian (whether it is a religion or not is another matter entirely, for now let’s classify it as ‘close enough’), I read and memorize Confucian texts, and I try to approach problems in a Confucian manner.
However, I’m not sure I believe much of the founding mythology. I reject the idea that Confucius was born with a perfect allotmnet of Qi, I am fairly certain that the Zhou were white-washed by early Ru (I believe it was Lu Xiangshan who was a major advocate of this theory, but I am not 100% sure here), while I like the idea of virtue=to get (de=de), I am not sure that it is true, I believe Confucius had a ragingly freudian daddy-complex because of his relation to his father, ect, ect, ect.
A devout individual would not nitpick it to pieces that way.
So, devout=thought, devoted=action. Now, usually a devout individual is also devoted, but the reverse is not as often true.
Fair question Ned, I am not religious because religions limit. And for me these limits do not set right.
I respect your religion and most people need religion. To me it seems that it is the devout and the devoted that either cross those limits or create new limits within themselves.
I can not be devoted nor devout to any one religion, I respect all too much. And need to learn too much.
From my view and what I have learned studying religions, is that Religion is as neccessary for most people as eating, they just consume it differently or different amounts.
I study philosophy and politics the same way. I have no political affiliation nor philisophical. For me, limiting to one way would be very unhealthy for me. I need a well rounded diet to keep my mind healthy, for others this is not true I only speak for myself.
So while I am classified as an atheist I am probably as far from it as any could be. But I am not religious. I just need to learn.
Does that explain a bit more? If not I can try some way different to explain.
well, what most Christians should try to achieve is to be both devout and devoted, by your definitions.
to Webster:
devout adj. 1 very religious; pious 2 showing reverence 3 earnest; sincere; heartfelt
devoted adj. 1 dedicated; consecrated 2 very loving, loyal, or faithful
interestingly enough, it doesn’t list either one as a synonym of the other
my definitions would be closest to the connotations, that devout applies to religious ideas, and devoted can be both secular and religious things, sorry if it’s a bit unclear, but that’s it for me
oh and kudos to Kriswest for the way he’s handling this topic. nice going. =D>
Yeah, by my definitions almost all people who are devout are also devoted. But the reverse, the reverse.
Also, I think webster kinda agrees with me.
Heartfelt and sincere are more mental states, whereas dedicated, faithful, and showing reverence are more action-based.
Thanks guys i think this is great! This is sharing and caring I appreciate your help.
More thoughts from other folks might still come in about Devout and devote. But, lets see about keeping this rolling.
I am a different type of thinker then those in my family. My sibs are fairly cut and dry religiously, philosophically and politically they fall more into the faithful/believer levels of these.
Do you aproach your religion and thinking differently then your family and close friends and associates? Has it always been so if you do?
August 8, 2006
Dear Kriswest,
Thank you for the touching story. You were obviously fortunate to meet one of the finest of souls. She brings to mind my tiny 80-year-old lady dentist 30 years ago who did most of my root canals. We never had any deep discussions because she was too busy rasping out my teeth’s roots and placing gold crowns. She was very determined that I should have some teeth to last me. She had the strength of a big man, and something told me she was as saintly as Mother Theresa.
Setting standards of refinement is the natural strength of women; with just men around there is no balance. Take that as a compliment if you wish, but don’t let it stop you from correcting me if you think I should be corrected.
Clearly, as we all are, you are about love in the highest sense. And that’s what devoutness is about to me. It’s about loving so much that you can’t just say it anymore; you have no choice but to prove it. To give your life to, to breathe and sweat for what you believe in. Your lady reminds me of the religious folks who read the quotes of the alleged person Jesus in the Book of Matthew and see their own beautiful souls and love in those words, and that their existence depends on that perfect love and forgiveness even though they may not always attain to it. They have a happiness because they know nothing and no one can take their realization away from them, and the glory of loving all the great beauty in people and life. With understanding all things are forgiven, and happiness is not possible unless they are forgiven. There are manifestations of imbalance that go beyond our understanding and that is karma for transgressions that most will never comprehend. And all the “worst” people in life are merely victims. I always say Adolf Hitler must have been fun at parties. His nurse said he was a perfect gentleman. But, as the Turkish proverb goes, “Fish rots from the head”. When we know how the rot sets in, then we might return to the Garden of Eden, and might have a safe world to live in.
By the way, I am not religious, but I am devout. The Sufis are the same, and they don’t even care to be labelled as Sufis. They are mistakenly thought to be a sect of Islam by many. In former times, there were Christian, Jewish and Islamic Sufis. The roots of Sufism are thought to be in ancient Egyptian religion, or what was no doubt the esoteric heart of such, familiar only to a few.
‘When the power of love replaces the love of power, man will have a new name: God.’ (Chinmoy)
“And though I have [prophecy, knowledge, faith] so that i could remove mountains, and have not love, I am nothing.”
(1 Corinthians 13:2)
Truth without Love is useless;
Love without Truth has no purpose. (Luxin)
Love is the fulfilling of the law. (Romans 13.10)
The green shoots of lowliness are love. (Ibn Gabirol, Mibhar HaPeninim, c. 1050)
Love without criticism is not love. (Jose B. Hanina, Genesis Rabbah (Midrash))
Luxin ,
Thankyou very much for your contribution. It is of great interest.
You are devout, do you see a difference between devout and devoted, also, Do you find that you think and feel differently then those that surround you and have you always been so if you do? I appreciate any input if you care to answer. It would truly benifit this multi religion thread.
People study religions as have I, but, I have yet to see very much about the actual religious. Comparing religions is a commonplace disscussion. Here I would like to not compare but learn what it is to be devout and devoted to religion. The whats , why, Hows, and wheres and other questions about people that are immersed devoutly and devotedly to thier respective religion. This could be educational and helpful for many people here, especially ,maybe the devout and devoted. I am not interested in the religions and religious doctrines or word here, but, the soulful feelings of such.I encourage questions here for I may not think of some. but, not questions or arguments for or about religions It is my sincere hope that many will participate. I look forward to your response and other’s responses. thank you
Devout and devoted? I’ve pretty much used them as different terms for the same thing, though I suppose I could point out that a person can be devoted to a cause without believing in it. For example, a person who’s ultimately not a Christian at all could still fight for and support Christian causes and ideals because he has a great affection for the culture around it. I suppose that might be devoted without devout.
Thanks Uccisore,
What do think about the second set of questions? Do you find that you think and feel differently then those that surround you and have you always been so if you do? Thanks again for any input.
Thanks Uccisore,
What do think about the second set of questions? Do you find that you think and feel differently then those that surround you and have you always been so if you do? Thanks again for any input.
Well, I was surrounded by religious folks growing up, so no, I didn’t think radically different than them early on, at least in the sense you mean. I have, however, always been more interested in critically thinking and ‘asking stupid questions’ than the rest of my friends and family. So yeah, I felt different back then, but not because of my religion.
Nowadays, though, I feel dramatically different. The culture that was presented to me on MTV, and so much of my generation absorbed, is so radically different than how I took things to be, that I feel like I’m from another country (one that doesn’t exist anymore) a lot of the time. I feel old. Again, it’s generally not my religious beliefs themselves that make me feel different, but the moral positions that I feel follow from them.
You feel in your heart that Jesus would shake his head with the single-minded direction of Christianity…? That we should strive to be more like him since he is the perfect example?..he would shake his head at this? Who are you to say you know Jesus without Scripture?
Believe me I would in no way want to “bash” your beliefs because that’s not my position. I guess this is where are views differ. I believe the Bible is God’s “word”. That we may obtain the history and knowledge that we are not born with, and that others can’t describe. You give the false definition of Christianity…Christians should be “Believers” in better words.
I see many atheist, agnostics, and gnostics that claim to be Christians because in this day and age it’s the “cool” thing to do. It’s meaning has been stripped down into a hypocrite who goes to church, the cause? Well I believe for the most part Secularism. It’s rare you actually find “true” Christians anymore. We have been told to keep our mouths shut, we have been told to accept and are expected to celebrate what we should not. Securalism pure and simple and it’s confusing this generation.
Club,
Thankyou very much for your response. do you have any input for my questions your answers to them would be apreciated and of course any question not pertaining to a specific religion would be apreciated.
Well I can’t specifically find questions you have other than you want me to tell you about what I believe? I will.
I believe in a God who sent his son, himself. To die on a Cross to pay for our sin debt, that we may accept him into our hearts and lives. In doing so we will be saved from hell. I’ve always been taught that you can’t lose this salvation because it would be like putting Christ on the Cross again. I can’t think of the verse at this moment however. And if you could lose your salvation you could never get it back. I believe I should tell others about him, not preach at them, but answer there questions as I have a purpose to do so I believe.
All religions are highly debatable, but never refutable. Nothing I will ever say will be as truth to all, and I will even question myself from something I used to fully believe in.
You are helping me understand however that most of this site is pointless with the religion aspects. I’m pouring out my heart and mind to you and telling you I don’t have all the answers. I am scared from time to time. Maybe my strong relationship with God is just a false hope that brings me happiness, but it keeps me latched on. I can defend my beliefs for the rest of my life and maybe only help a few. Maybe I’m not supposed to show weakness, but it’s truth. My uncle is a giant in the theology world as well as a brain in the rest of the World. I look up to men like him as well as my Grandfather who is a pastor, and my Dad who he’s raised to be a man of respect. I see what these men are really like, they are good. They don’t have hidden agendas like alot of the Televangelist. I get caught up many times in just basing my faith off their faith. I know that’s wrong, and that’s why I’m striving to find answers in whatever way I can. Sure I’m scared what I’ll find, but I’d rather it be the truth than blind faith.
I don’t think I’ve done a very good job at explaining my faith. But as I said it’s the truth, and I want to be as sincere as possible.
Well the questions are: is there a difference betweein devout and devoted to you and do you consider yourself devout or devoted or perhaps both or niether. also so you think differently then the people around you and if you do aproach your thoughts and beliefs differently then those around you, have you always done so
Its fine to be scared Club, if the truth be known, I am willing to bet that all of us humans are afraid at points like you are. We just tend to forget that or try to deny it. Its ok to question and learn. Your relationship with your God is never pointless, you have it for a reason. You need it, it is yours and yours alone, no one can ever take it nor remove it. Don’t ever let anyone try to take away from you that which you need. OK Just don’t try to take someone elses away either. No matter who or what they worship it is theirs ,just as correct for them as yours is correct for you.
No one is the same. No belief is the same. Perhaps this thread is developing to help folks understand the devout and devoted of other religions and faiths, so each can see each other as fellows and learn and grow and respect each other. OK
I hope you see this as a worthy goal for this thread because that is my goal. Not putting forth a particular religion not even talking religions but what makes you, and others religious. OK
Your input is needed here Club I hope you participate and respect others. I want all religious people here of all faiths of all religions to feel free to disscuss the whats, wheres, and whys that makes them religious for understanding reasons But not discussing their religion or yours, that can easily lead to a heated debate and that is not what this thread is about. Learning about each other yes , calling each other wrong ,no.