I used to ask…“How can you be open-minded and say a God cannot possibly exist…have you been open-minded enough to look at all the evidence? If not how can you come to this conclusion and rule God out?”
And for the most part I believe half of this is true…But as I see it with alot of atheist, NOT ALL atheist, even if I showed them God’s evidence and proved to them he existed they still wouldn’t accept it.
But as I was pondering this today…I realized something, and if this is wrong please tell me why.
If we were to discuss whether or not robots would someday rule the earth…could I rule that possibility out? No…so why wouldn’t I believe in it? Well I have some higher standard of Faith to believe in and it’s God’s plan. Because of God’s plan I don’t believe robots will ever rule the earth…and this is how I look at atheism now.
But if that’s true… Than atheist must have some other belief that disproves of a belief in God…and it must be some sort of faith, is this correct? So how can you argue with an atheist about faith in God…shouldn’t we be arguing another belief of theirs? Like maybe one could be humanity…a humanistic lifestyle? Ayn Rand sorta thing?
And now off the subject I would like to clear up what I think is a common misconception amoung atheist towards christians. I don’t believe happy Christians are ‘for the most part’ happy because they believe there’s a life after death and someone watching over them…it’s because they serve someone and please someone other than themselves… I’m not saying all Christians are like this…and sometimes atheist are even like this…I’ve heard that true happiness comes from doing things for others…if that statement is true than an humanistic approach to life would only be unhappiness…and to me just doing things for myself is very depressing.
I want to hear your thoughts…atheist, agnostic, theist, etc. I don’t really care. But you should know…either way you want to convince me…you should try and actually convince me.
How can you show any evidence for Gods existance when he doesnt exist. if you can PROVE his existance then I will be the first to bow down and worship…however there has to be PROOF…Ah and there we have it folks…no proof = non-existance.
You ask for the evidence I can’t give, and the evidence God won’t give. What evidence do you have to disprove his existence? None, and there we have it for real folks.
Hey, I just want to say “thanks” for your permission to post here, Club.
Big of you.
I am an atheist. My position is not that God cannot possibly exist, but only that he doesn’t in fact exist.
You can’t be open-minded forever. Sooner or later, you have to decide something.
Proof, and therefore disproof, is over-rated. An atheist believes in his senses, in his cognitive ability, in himself. No belief about anything else is required.
Your assumptions make it impossible to answer your questions. They are all way too “loaded”.
One thing I agree with you on - there is no point to the arguments about the existence of God. Argument isn’t everything.
Well for your first sarcastic remark…or that’s how I at least took it, was for those who think I don’t want to hear what non-believers have to say.
You’re right, sometime you have a make a decision…but why I can’t you still be open-minded? If what you say is true…if you were to see God right now you still wouldn’t believe in him.
You can believe any way you want, but you have no facts and thus far you haven’t given me a good reason why you don’t believe.
May I ask you to believe that you aren’t infallible. We do for a fact make mistakes even with our senses…we’re only human.
And yes I do agree it’s no use arguing over God’s existence because people will believe what they want to believe.
Not trying to persuade you to join christianity, but I’d rather know, since you don’t have the evidence ‘you’ want…and you don’t have the evidence against him. What makes you think he for a fact doesn’t exist. Is it just God’s existence that you don’t believe in having proof against?
No offense but if what you say is true about what you know, how do you know that information doens’t change with time? How can you ever trust anything? And this must mean you don’t have faith in anything? I know for a fact that’s false…if it wasn’t you’d be the most miserable paranoid man to ever live.
I will say it’s a pleasure talking to someone like you…you speak maturely about things…and If you don’t want to answers those questions don’t…I’m not saying I’m right or you’re right…I just want to know for myself.
Science is what I have used to help determine a lack of a God. That and other religions like Buddhism and Daoism. I do not reject God, i reject the human characteristics given by people as a whole. I feel as if there is a certain flow of life though. But yes, science helped me come to my personal assertion of believing there is no god. I could very well be wrong tho.
The information can change with time. There is no reason to change ahead of the information. My position is information-based. I have no information that I deem credible about the existence of any god.
I have already stated what I have faith in - my senses, first and foremost. I trust them. Mostly. But my faith in my senses does not have to be absolute, nor do my sense have to be infallible - it’s the best I’ve got.
I believe in having proof against anything. It’s not my faith in that technique that is operative here. I just haven’t seen a good argument against the existence of god.
I have studied every type - there aren’t that many ways to approach this kind of proof - from either direction. I studied it in school, and for some years since. I have seen well-articulated arguments on many a message board page. I don’t accept any of them.
There is no argument for or against any universal. I accept that as a matter of logic, and not an epistemic concern.
Senses. Logic. Cognition. Experience.
These are why I do not believe in god - it is these that have preserved my life thus far, and I am greedy enough for life to believe in them still. And they are the very reasons, at bottom, that I don’t believe any argument against god, either.
There are some that will call this agnosticism. They are incorrect. The position I lay out here is not about God, but about me.
That’s what you asked for, isn’t it? Your question was not about god, but about atheists.
I think Jesus, Mohammad, and a couple other ‘figures’ throughout religious history all share one common attribute – they found God. Now… don’t get all excited, it’s not the ‘God’ you subscribe to.
I think it’s a type of inner god that they mistook for something else.
I’ve seen the things that the soul can do, and finally science is actually starting to prove this as well.
My true beliefis that everyone is capable of sculpting their own heaven, unlocking their true potential. The reasons that the otherwise peaceful religions tarnish from instance to instance is because people are forced to do things a certain way, forced to listen to someone other than themselves.
Now… this is pretty bare bones, and I know how it would seem that universalized, my system is a little unstable… I don’t doubt that, but I don’t doubt it’s fundamental validity too much either.
You could very well be wrong…and so could I…we all could.
Will you inform me on what part of science helped you come to believe in no God? Because I believe in Science fully…Just want to make sure you’re not making this decision based on information you’ve heard about what Christians believe…because I want to tell you what I believe.
Dude, it wouldn’t bother me one bit if you tried to convince me, I’m open to every suggestion.
Lol, I’ve got science on my side as well…so do many Christian scientist…
You guys all have good reasons and you don’t need me to tell you that. I’m just trying to make sure we’re on the same level with what many Christian lies have been spread about what Christians are supposed to believe…I believe in Evolution…just not macro at the moment. I believe in the big bang…but I believe God made it happen…not nothing. I also believe God can make a mature earth if he can make mature humans(adam and eve).
Now what do you have for me in science that’s left…?
I know I’m asking alot of questions but I’m preparing for what I’ll face in college…I want good reason to believe what I do and I want to be able to defend it if it’s true.
I have been studying Biology for almost the entirety of my life. From the smallest presence (virology well now prions ) to the largest (ecosystems). And from studying this I have also studied the structures of animal in which they live.
This and along with evolution brings me to the conclusion that people are simply glorifed animals. We can do so much more of course but this is because our brain has been evolved after millions of years. Society’s exist in the animal kingdom nearly as complex as ours. Everything has a structure to it which seems to flow and function w/o man.
Man over time has become essentially arrogant of his role. Science should be used as a tool to become more in tune and understanding. You are right it can also be used as a tool for the truth. I feel that when one does that they lose the true purpose of science and set it up for an almost religious entity.
As I have said before I have no qualms with the path’s we choose to live by. But for each person it should be unique and full of questions. So don’t worry Christian I will not be judgemental in the least.
It is interesting that you say that. I find it curious because religions themselves are part of evolution as we know it. Some don’t, but most religions should themselves recognize that the concept of religion itself is a part of the natural world. It’s a natural progression, Christianity as a concept has evolved just like everything else. At one time religion took the place of science – as a way to explain the world.
Some would say we still need religion, that it still serves more of a positive purpose than negative. I would agree. People are not… ready, I guess, for this next paradigm whose door we are approaching quite fast.
Buddy, there’s lots left in science
Wanna know how our(there are many) universe was started?
I think I will respond directly to your first post (though I think that faust is doing an admirable job… and for the most part I would happily let him speak for me.) That said, there are a few things I would like to point out…
If you showed an atheist god and he responded as Bertie R. said he would, exclaiming “not enough proof!” then surely that atheist would be a madman. I am not a madman, and as someone said, if I saw god, I’d sure as hell believe in his existence. After all, it would be like denying the existence of an apple. “I don’t believe in apples” in a pretty riduculous thing to say when you can see an apple. I’ve never seen god though.
Your analogy of believing whether or not robots will ever rule the earth is utterly different from anything about believing in god. Questions about belief or disbelief in the existence of god are based on whether or not god exists, not a future question about what may at some point come to be.
I have said it before, and I’ll say it again: a lack of evidence of existence is not evidence of a lack of existence. It is entirely possible that the god you worship exists. It is entirely possible that many things exist, and alas, I can do nothing to disprove the potential of their existence. (Not that I’m at al interested in disproving the possibility of god.) So it’s possible that god exists, it is however, entirely possible that he does not exist in the way that you imagine him to be, it is also entirely possible that he doesn’t exist at all.
So why would I believe that this one particular manifestation (especially with all the different things that even Christians believe about their god) is accurate? Proof, pure and simple.
As far as trying to convince you of anything, I’m not. I’m happy to share my story with you, and tell you why I believe what I do. I couldn’t care less what you do with it.
gobbo? was that a copy and paste from the “string theory”…I’ve not read much on that but I’ll gladly look into it.
Gemty…maybe you haven’t seen God in the way you think you’re supposed to see him. I sure know I haven’t…but I still have faith the grain of a mustard seed, and that’s all I need.
I see what you’re saying about my analogy gemty…but what I’m saying is when the question of God’s existence is answered…which I believe it will be someday…and so until then…to me it’s just like my analogy. If there’s still a flaw in that please explain.
All christians should have doubts, and all christians should be open-minded unlike many are today. I’ll agree we have been brainwashed…not for the belief in the God pursay but the information about God and what God wants for us.
Many Christians believe being a homosexual is a sin…it’s homosexual behavior that is…not the orientation. It’s lies we’ve bought that have ruined Christianity as a whole…
I can’t fully understand why you wouldn’t believe…I just want to make sure you have good reasons…I know you may not care but I do care about you guys. And when I debate on here I don’t want to be the stereotyped Christian you see on the news…actually this isn’t even debate…it’s philosophy. But as for my reasons in believing…well call it a illusion of the mind but I know in my heart and mind he exists. Whenever you really get close with God you know it…I’ve felt demonic presences when speaking of things such as this with fellow Christians…and oddly enough they tell me later they felt the same. I’ve heard testimonies between other Christians of seeing things…Demons dont’ attack atheist and agnostics…what reason would they have to, or bad Christians for that matter which I’ve been lately. My great great unsaved uncle died screaming “oh looky what a fire!, oh looky what a fire!”…These are the possibilites I cannot rule out…and so I do accept that a God could exist and I do have enough faith to accept him and because of that I’ve found him…and yes I’ve thought “I’m just imagining this” but I realize no matter how much I push away…I realize I’m not imagining it.
Those are my reasons and I would rather no negative comments as you have alot of ammo to use against me here…this is just personal testimony…and you can feel free to question me about it if that’s your desire…but I highly doubt most of you care.
