Any creationists in the house?

[barcelonic]

Firstly I should state right now that I am an atheist.

Now that's out the way, I should explain that where I live in South Wales, UK, is an area virtually free of creationism. Not just that, but devout Christianity has become something of a rarity here. I think most are agnostic.
So for a long while now I've had certain questions about the practicalities of creationism and was hoping I may have the opportunity to chat with one on here.

Additionally, given the scarcity of creationism in the UK I fear I may have wrong information about some of their beliefs and would welcome the chance to be set straight by anyone in the know.



PS. By creationism, I'm referring to Christian creationism (Genesis) - just in case it exists within other religions too.

[V-OutOfTheWilderness]

Firstly I should state right now that I am an atheist.

Now that's out the way, I should explain that where I live in South Wales, UK, is an area virtually free of creationism. Not just that, but devout Christianity has become something of a rarity here. I think most are agnostic.
So for a long while now I've had certain questions about the practicalities of creationism and was hoping I may have the opportunity to chat with one on here.

Additionally, given the scarcity of creationism in the UK I fear I may have wrong information about some of their beliefs and would welcome the chance to be set straight by anyone in the know.



PS. By creationism, I'm referring to Christian creationism (Genesis) - just in case it exists within other religions too.

Oh boy creationism. Eyes lifes in Kentucky sos eyes thinks I can say sompin about creationism. We hillbillies loves creationism.

We even have a Creation Museum here in Kantuck http://creationmuseum.org/. We have displays of humans riding dinosaurs. Cuz God created dinosaurs back in the garden of Eden, but they weren't told about in that book.

Creationist love James Ussher http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Ussher#Chronology. That's were they hang their everything on. Ussher clocked the Bible back to the date of creation, which he said was nightfall preceding 23 October 4004 BC. Never mind that the Bible was never intended to be used that way, Ussher said it, it came from the Bible, and that's that. The earth is only 6000 yrs old. And the Fred Flintstone cartoons are literal. People road dinosaurs, they teach.

[barcelonic]

Oh to have a direct line to that guy, James Ussher! What a great conversation that would be - to speak to the unofficial 'Pope' of creationists.

We have displays of humans riding dinosaurs.

O M G - Please tell me you're joking lol

I'm guessing you're kinda with me then and not a creationist yourself, right? If so tis a shame.

Does anyone have any statistics to show the prevalance of creationism in the US? It could well be that British media paints it like there are more than there actually are, I really don't know

[V-OutOfTheWilderness]

Does anyone have any statistics to show the prevalance of creationism in the US? It could well be that British media paints it like there are more than there actually are, I really don't know

4 in 10 still believe in creationism, or 120 million ... Americans are smart ....

[barcelonic]

Does anyone have any statistics to show the prevalance of creationism in the US? It could well be that British media paints it like there are more than there actually are, I really don't know

4 in 10 still believe in creationism, or 120 million ... Americans are smart ....

Wow is that true, tis shocking imho

How many 'open' creationists would you say? (as i'm assuming many of them are not truly devout creationists but merely believers?)

Either way tis a worrisome statistic from my perspective.

The single-most thing I have against the 'theory' of creationism is that at some point incestuous relationships would have occurred, and further, God had to have wanted it to happen (which seems rather un-Christian to me)

[V-OutOfTheWilderness]

Does anyone have any statistics to show the prevalance of creationism in the US? It could well be that British media paints it like there are more than there actually are, I really don't know

4 in 10 still believe in creationism, or 120 million ... Americans are smart ....

Wow is that true, tis shocking imho

How many 'open' creationists would you say? (as i'm assuming many of them are not truly devout creationists but merely believers?)

Either way tis a worrisome statistic from my perspective.

The single-most thing I have against the 'theory' of creationism is that at some point incestuous relationships would have occurred, and further, God had to have wanted it to happen (which seems rather un-Christian to me)

Yeah, and where did Cain get his wife? Was she from the monkeys? Maybe that's the missing link.

The most extreme Creation Christian Crazies (CCC) here in America would be Westboro Baptist Church in Topeka, Kansas.

Spend some time lookin 'em up. There's loads of laughs there ...

[Smears]

I can't believe that the world wasn't at some point created.

[barcelonic]

I can't believe that the world wasn't at some point created.

Ye and dinosaur bones were scattered around to "test our faith" lol

Surely creationists must willingly choose to pretend that carbon dating and similar techs do not exist? I just don't understand it - even the Vatican has changed its stance on things as new breakthroughs in science were made.
Tradition trumps reason it seems then - if God himself came down and spoke to these people about evolution I suspect many would still disbelieve because psychologically it requires a great upheaval of everything one's ever believed in.

Tis a strange world.

The phrase "only in America" - does this have typically positive or negative assosciation in the US? I think positive, and Im in no position to say otherwise, but certainly it seems there are many negative ways to use that much-beloved American phrase

[Smears]

Carbon dating could show that the timeliness are off, but its not an answer to the problem of first cause. This is philosophy dude you're not getting off that easy. You think that I'm a religious person? I'm not. I just have an understanding that science doesn't address philosophical problems. Claiming knowledge of the answers to philosophical problems is the fundamental function of religious people. Christians and atheists.

[barcelonic]

Carbon dating could show that the timeliness are off, but its not an answer to the problem of first cause. This is philosophy dude you're not getting off that easy. You think that I'm a religious person? I'm not. I just have an understanding that science doesn't address philosophical problems. Claiming knowledge of the answers to philosophical problems is the fundamental function of religious people. Christians and atheists.

My last post was in complete agreement with yours.
???
Now it seems you are trying to spark a debate but I'm not quite sure what over because I agree with you

But very well Smears - this is what I don't quite follow in your post here....
This is philosophy dude you're not getting off that easy. You think that I'm a religious person? I'm not.

Getting off with what? I remain confused?

When did I make an implication as to your beliefs?

Dude seriously you have me sooo baffled right now lol


EDIT: Apologies Smears - i misunderstood you because of your double-negative
Of course we disagree because if I understand rightly (which i think i do now lol) you are saying you believe the world was created.

For clarification though.... are you saying you believe it was created as per The Book Of Genesis, or just the belief that it was designed/created by a sentient being?

[Smears]

Are you saying that to reject the notion that carbon dating speaks to the problem of first cause is fallacious?

[barcelonic]

Are you saying that to reject the notion that carbon dating speaks to the problem of first cause is fallacious?

Sorry i just updated my post now i was confused.....
Feel free to rtepost if you like given the new info

[Smears]

I'm only stating that it was. Not how or when. No one knows the answers to those except religious people, and people who don't know the difference between science that starts at observation and science that starts with speculation.

[Smears]

And there were two negating terms in my sentence, but with different objects, so it should have been clear.

[barcelonic]

I'm only stating that it was. Not how or when. No one knows the answers to those except religious people, and people who don't know the difference between science that starts at observation and science that starts with speculation.

Thanks for clarifying for me. It seems im not all here today (a lot on my mind)

I don't have much to dispute with you on this other than age of the world and the incest thing (which isn't applicable here as you've clarified you don't believe we begun with Adam & Eve).

As for carbon dating - i'm no expert and know it has its flaws but the very existence of dinosaur fossils, so many of which are dated to millions of years ago, is proof enough for me that the world most definitely is not 6,000 years old.
I've also been researching legends of lost lands lately and a lot of my research involves the period between 20,000BCE and 1500BCE.

EDIT: Smears, indeed it should have been clear. I have apologised for misunderstanding you. Will my embarassment not suffice?

[Smears]

Big problem with atheists in religious debates is that they seem to think disproving one thing necessarily proves another, like disproving a timeline in the bible can't equal disproving religion. That's just not logic. You don't have to know much about carbon dating really, just that it tells us how old things are, as far as we can tell. So yes, you can use it to prove dinosaurs existed before genesis said the world was created, but that doesn't prove the world was not created.

[barcelonic]

Big problem with atheists in religious debates is that they seem to think disproving one thing necessarily proves another, like disproving a timeline in the bible can't equal disproving religion. That's just not logic. You don't have to know much about carbon dating really, just that it tells us how old things are, as far as we can tell. So yes, you can use it to prove dinosaurs existed before genesis said the world was created, but that doesn't prove the world was not created.

I couldn't agree more, but I am starting to sense you want to disagree?

I sense this because I am an atheist currently in a religious discussion and so I sense you're referring to me (only logical right?), and yet I don't think disproving one thing proves another.

In fact, if I may be so bold, I suspect your view of athiests is that they are all about the science, when personally my writings (more like scribbles lol) are mostly about the inefficacy of science due to the apparent necessity scientists feel to come up with an answer even when they don't know it, and subsequently present it as unquestionable fact (which is my biggest pet peeve of all!)

Believe me when i say i have nothing against the religious but I have a lot of negatives toward modern science & medicine.

I don't agree with Christian beliefs but if I were President of the world I'd have a church on every corner, for as long as they were desired (as well as temples, mosques, synagogues etc..)

[Smears]

My view on atheists is that they are hardly different from theists in form. I also hate medicine and pharma companies and all that.

[barcelonic]

And i just wanna put out there that Im all about freedom of religion despite being die-hard atheist.

My view is that God doesn't exist but regardless religion is of huge importance and I'd never seek to take that away.

[no1nose]

What a surprise to find that some people don't believe in creation !!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ka1tTswg ... ature=plcp

[Stoic Guardian]

I think i'm borderline on becoming an absurdist at least when it comes to the issue of creation, i've formerly said that the only two explanations we've been able to come up with for the reason of existance is either "God did it" or "It just happended for no apparent reason". Seeing as how they (and by that i mean people seeking an alternative for God(s)) now say that something can come from nothing and that nothing has properties... Im out.

[Selah7+]

Does anyone have any statistics to show the prevalance of creationism in the US? It could well be that British media paints it like there are more than there actually are, I really don't know

4 in 10 still believe in creationism, or 120 million ... Americans are smart ....

Good number, but it could be better. Smarter than you.

[Selah7+]

Firstly I should state right now that I am an atheist.

Now that's out the way, I should explain that where I live in South Wales, UK, is an area virtually free of creationism. Not just that, but devout Christianity has become something of a rarity here. I think most are agnostic.
So for a long while now I've had certain questions about the practicalities of creationism and was hoping I may have the opportunity to chat with one on here.

Additionally, given the scarcity of creationism in the UK I fear I may have wrong information about some of their beliefs and would welcome the chance to be set straight by anyone in the know.



PS. By creationism, I'm referring to Christian creationism (Genesis) - just in case it exists within other religions too.

Barcelonic, I know the path that the UK has taken over the last decades, centuries even. I am sad to see so many mosques throughout the UK. It is a sad testimony to the great preachers of old, who were so faithful in their testimony to the truth of God's Word and His goodness to us who are lost in a dying world. Please read the first few chapters of Genesis. There are your answers, sir. Men do not have the answers you seek. They are deceivers and lovers of themselves more than lovers of God. They will lead you astray my friend. Trust God, not men.

[Selah7+]

And i just wanna put out there that Im all about freedom of religion despite being die-hard atheist.

My view is that God doesn't exist but regardless religion is of huge importance and I'd never seek to take that away.

You are most definately conflicted, Barc. Again I say, trust God...not men who would have you turn from God. God is not the author of confusion. 1 Corinthians 14:33. Do you have a Holy Bible? If not, get one and search these things for yourself. Don't take my word for it. I will guide you, but you must seek for yourself. You say that you believe that God doesn't exist, but what you really mean is "I don't understand God." "Is He really there?" Then you say that it is of a huge importance to you. Please don't give up. Continue your search, friend. You are in a spiritualy warfare right now. FIGHT BACK. Ephesians 6:12 "For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkenss of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places." King James Version 1611 [A very godly man and King of England, who wanted the Scriptures translated into the common language so that all could read and understand and come to know the Truth of God]

[Selah7+]

And i just wanna put out there that Im all about freedom of religion despite being die-hard atheist.

My view is that God doesn't exist but regardless religion is of huge importance and I'd never seek to take that away.

You are not an atheist, you just think that you are.