Do NOT Bash Muslims

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Do NOT Bash Muslims

Postby Prismatic567 » Sun Aug 28, 2016 4:28 am

Original post:
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Prismatic567 wrote:
One Liner wrote:Oh, you mean this is a Muslim bashing thread and thus it gives us permission to quote figures that are meaningless and one sided in order to justify Muslim bashing.

Note I stated very clearly in my post earlier;
"Btw, I am not blaming Muslims per-se."

What I am criticizing is Islam in part, not wholly, i.e. the part that is malignant which trigger the evil prone Muslims to commit evils and violence around the world.

Image
[29,112] :shock: note the change from yesterday.
Why do you say the figures quoted are one-sided and meaningless?
Where are your arguments to justify your point.
Have you researched into those figures at all?
The total is merely a reasonable general representation of the evil and violence committed by SOME evil prone Muslims.
However we need to do a detailed analysis of the total, depending on which perspectives we emphasized.

I don't bash Muslims and I do not blame Muslims directly for the atrocities committed by SOME Muslims. I do not even blame those evil prone Muslims who committed the evils and violence because they were unfortunately born with an active evil tendencies.

The critical root cause and blame are the evil laden elements in the Quran and within the ethos of Islam that catalyze and trigger the evil prone Muslims to perform their duty as good Muslims and those acts out in reality turned out to be evil and violent.

Views?
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Re: Do NOT Bash Muslims

Postby The Golden Turd » Sun Aug 28, 2016 4:43 am

I do blame Islam, but not necessarily Muhammad, for some ugly aspects of Jihad, immediately after Muhammad's death.... the methodology of figuring out who was Muslim and who was not was rather nasty and stupid, but I technically can't blame Muhammad or the Koran for this, as this came postmortem for Muhammad. It is a product of shitty, shortsighted logic, and not of Just War Theory. Koran doesn't direct Jihad is to be militant dickheads in all things when in doubt, you could just as easily use wisdom and foresight, political means and compromise, limited force when it doesn't contradict the koran and be just as Muslim. All too often that's not the case in Islamic history.

I'm also not a big fan of how Muhammad handled the Jews and Christians in Medina. They were stupid for agreeing to let an outsider cultist to run their show, but hey.... their mistake, they died for their stupidity. This control over these populations in Medina's Valley hardly includes christians and Jews outside of it, Muslims have zero right to dictate the beliefs of others, especial emphasis on Christians and Jews who never signed up under Muhammad's political compact, outside that valley. If a idiot Muslim tried doing it to me, bones would be broken, I have zero tolerance for fools imposing themselves upon me. You can walk around shouting whatever slogans you want, but don't you dare lay a finger on me, my ancestors never lived under the yoke of the crescent and I am quite insistent on my independence and continuation of my beliefs. They come from God, and will suffer no trespass from any backwater fool trying to force me otherwise.

This being said, this forum is full of a bunch of idiots who hate all Muslims, Christians, or Jews, or Black People.... it is a very liberal crowd. Think they should have knowledge on the topics they speak on before denouncing it. Islam is a favorite punching bag, far more than it should be. Most here don't understand it. True, the propaganda that "Islam = Peace" is clearly bullshit by now, everyone knows it, but at the same time, the religion isn't as bad as everyone thinks, and has far more redeeming qualities than bad. I won't say it works that well though, and has evident faults. I like reformist like Gulen who went back to the philosophical classics, studied other religions, and examined Islam in this light. I'm not scared of the enlighred Muslim, but the closed minded one. I'm also afraid of closed minded anyone, of any creed, or apparent lack of creed. Leads to needless repression and violence. Wahabbi has this in spades.
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Re: Do NOT Bash Muslims

Postby Prismatic567 » Sun Aug 28, 2016 5:00 am

surreptitious57 wrote:
Prismatic567 wrote:
exhorting its believers to kill non Muslims

They also kill Muslims as well so do not discriminate between the two

Yes they [Muslims-A] also kill "Muslims=B" as well but those "Muslims=B" who are targeted for killing by Muslim-A are labelled as 'hypocrites' and apostates as described in the Quran and Ahadith.

The fact is each group of Muslims [Muslims-A and Muslims-B] will claim they are the truer Muslims in the eyes of Allah in accordance to the Quran and Ahadith.

The problem is NO humans on Earth can judge which group's claim are true, only Allah can do the judgment on Judgment Day.

So Muslims-A will continue to kill non-Muslims and Muslims-B on the basis they are theologically right and entitled to commit those evil acts.

How are you going to resolve the above claims and remember you are not Allah?
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Re: Do NOT Bash Muslims

Postby Prismatic567 » Sun Aug 28, 2016 5:33 am

Turd Ferguson wrote:I do blame Islam, but not necessarily Muhammad, for some ugly aspects of Jihad, immediately after Muhammad's death.... the methodology of figuring out who was Muslim and who was not was rather nasty and stupid, but I technically can't blame Muhammad or the Koran for this, as this came postmortem for Muhammad. It is a product of shitty, shortsighted logic, and not of Just War Theory. Koran doesn't direct Jihad is to be militant dickheads in all things when in doubt, you could just as easily use wisdom and foresight, political means and compromise, limited force when it doesn't contradict the koran and be just as Muslim. All too often that's not the case in Islamic history.
I think my use of 'blame' is not very appropriate.

The process is like this;

1. There are evils and violence in this world.
2. As concerned citizens of humanity we must address ALL evil and violence.
3. In breaking down the "ALL" we note there is a class of evil which are related to Islam.
4. To resolve this specific class of evil we need to trace the ultimate root causes.
5. The ultimate root causes are as follows;
....5a - a natural existence of a percentile of evil prone Muslims.
....5b -loads of evil laden elements in the Quran and within the ethos of Islam.
6. Elements 5b catalyze 5b and influence 5b to commit evils and violence.
7. The Evil tendencies in humans must be addressed but it is not easy at present.
8. What is easier to address at present are the evil laden elements in the Quran and Islam.

There is no need for us to use the term 'blame' but as concerned citizens of humanity we must address all evil and violence and this specific class objectively and rationally for morality sake and the well being of humanity.

The point is the very existence of the Quran and its ideology which partially contain very malignant evil elements results in terrible evils and violence around the world.

In contrast, note Buddhism, Jainism, and the likes which do not contain any leading verses in the holy texts that trigger naturally born evil prone Buddhists or Jains to commit evils and violence. If any Buddhists commit evils and violence it is because of his/her inherent active evil tendencies which has nothing to do with Buddhism at all.
It is the same for Christianity wherein the NT has a pacifist overriding absolute maxim to no killing another human except to love even the enemies.

From the above, it is obvious the critical root cause of Islamic-inspired evils and violence is due the tons of evil laden elements in the Quran. The Quran do not have an absolute overriding maxim of no killing. Where killing is ever restricted it is always conditional [just war, self-defense, etc.] and thus open up holes that easily enabled leakage.

As for the Muhammad factor it depends on which perspective we are looking from;

1. If Muhammad is merely the messenger [parrot, tape recorder] and the Quran specifically stated so, then we cannot accuse Muhammad at all.

2. If Muhammad is deemed the exemplar who must be obeyed based on historical texts outside the Quran [Ahadith and Sira] which the majority of Muslims subscribed to, then we can accuse Muhammad and his extensive evil deeds.

3. If we look from a wider perspective of reality and humanity, we have to take the following into consideration;
....3a- It is impossible for god to exists in reality, therefore no Allah to reveal any Quran.
....3b- If the historical person is claimed to exists, then we can compare Muhammad as any cult leader who have had altered states experiences to for example Rev. Jim Jones and his good and evil deeds.
....3c- If Muhammad is likely to be a myth, then the Quran was compiled by a group of men who had martial and imperialistic interests. The Quran was compiled and established as a means [opiate] to control the army and the masses.

I believe 3c is most likely to be the realistic perspective.
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Re: Do NOT Bash Muslims

Postby The Golden Turd » Sun Aug 28, 2016 5:45 am

You can try NOT killing people, and insist Imams just use superior rhetorical methods to educate and convince others, getting the word out, and for police forces to use restraint in applying the law, and for anything resembling Jihad to be only allowable by the community with limited aims, those of seeking defence against unjustified excursions, always seeking political remedies when possible, both before and during combat, putting emphasis on the humane treatment of captives, and lessening the need for capital punishment to near no occurrences.

Shari'a says to do a lot of wacky things, but Muslims today aren't the brutal Arab tribes of Muhammad's past, you can effect better government when education allows for it, and obvious examples elsewhere exist. It is said in the Koran you have the government you deserve, does it not? If Muslims insist on stupid, barbaric tyranny, they shall have only that. If they want enlightened approach to dealing with people who threaten society, using their God given power of reason, they too can choose that. I don't think God's self esteem is so low he needs some ignorant, uneducated fool to strap on a suicide vest to insist on the validity of a few lines of the Koran. That isn't the mindset of the god of Ruth, who allowed us to think through problems and apply ourselves to better outcomes through reasoning. She used her brain, and the results were good, good enough to be included in the Bible, a Bible Muslims are supposed to have a level of respect for.

You may not be in a position to judge God, but as philosophers, we are damn well in a position to judge other men, including the reasoning of zealots and their lack of foresight and discernment in approaching applied knowledge through violence. Far too many idiots are running around doing things Satan would blush at, having the nerve to blame it on God of all people, able to quote a verse in support of mutilation and death. God gave us the power to reason, better ourselves, learn from our mistakes. Acting the fool, signing off by saying only God knows it a good way to avoid responsibility. We are men, and can judge the actions of other men. Statecraft isn't a new concept in philosophy, nor is enlightened understandings to jurisprudence. Shari'a itself isn't the koran, depends on logic, and all too often can come off as illogical and foul in application. Do not blame god for acting on logical suppositions that defy reasoning, the malice and blame for the violent cruel acts fall on those idiots who don't think the situation through and ask themselves if their is a better way. There almost always is, Muslims are urbanized and educated now, not the camel herders they once were, always forced to absurd punishments. Far better than to cut off someone's hand for stealing an apple is for society to question why a apple has to be stolen in the first place, and resolve that. The God of Jesus, that was his enlightened approach, to forgive and give remedy. Don't make a liar and fool out of God and his past examples just because you want to be mentally lazy and say you can't guess what Allah thinks, if he is the Christian and Jewish god, he left a pretty good blueprint for enlightened thinking that a lot of Muslims choose to overlook out of intellectual laziness. You may claim the books of the Christians and Jews are corrupted, but you don't reject a good system that's more humane and more advanced in concept for one synthetically derived from the precedents of urisprudence that are incredibly cruel, and act like you don't know which is better. The more humane, enlightened approach is generally better. Why? Cause you have choice, your making it up for the most part in accepting scholar A over B over C, over Islamic examples from this or that caliphate vs Christian or Jewish examples.... same God, if as Muslims insist, choose the wisest of choices. If koran says "do this" look at context.... context isnt often going to be the same criminally then as now.... society has changed, hopefully for the better. A wiser, more humane outlook is a necessity. I pray god doesn't want a legion of ignorant, violent dirty minded fools but wise, good hearted men who loved men as they loved God, and want the best for everyone, capable of understanding and discernment, and most of all forgiveness, of love and not hatred, of good and not evil.
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Re: Do NOT Bash Muslims

Postby The Golden Turd » Sun Aug 28, 2016 5:47 am

. The ultimate root causes are as follows;
....5a - a natural existence of a percentile of evil prone Muslims.
....5b -loads of evil laden elements in the Quran and within the ethos of Islam.
6. Elements 5b catalyze 5b and influence 5b to commit evils and violence.


I do not understand this.
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Re: Do NOT Bash Muslims

Postby Prismatic567 » Sun Aug 28, 2016 6:26 am

Turd Ferguson wrote:
. The ultimate root causes are as follows;
....5a - a natural existence of a percentile of evil prone Muslims.
....5b -loads of evil laden elements in the Quran and within the ethos of Islam.
6. Elements 5b catalyze 5b and influence 5b to commit evils and violence.


I do not understand this.


The ultimate root causes to all evils and violence committed by SOME evil prone Muslims are as follows;
....5a - a natural existence of a percentile of evil prone Muslims.
....5b -loads of evil laden elements in the Quran and within the ethos of Islam.

5a - a natural existence of a percentile of evil prone Muslims.
DNA wise ALL human beings has the POTENTIAL to be beastly and evil.
Note 'evil' comes in a range from low 1/100 to high 99/100.
We can confidently claim 75% [likely be higher] of all humans will commit Low rated evils like lying [white or black] of various degrees in their life time.
Thus it is save to claim a percentile [conservatively 20%] are born with an activated tendency to commit evil of some kind.
Therefore 20% of All Muslims [as with all humans] has an active tendency to commit evil of various degrees.
This gives us a potential pool of 300 millions [20% x1.5b] Muslims with active evil tendencies of various degrees from low to high. It is the higher degrees that are we are most concern with.

5b -loads of evil laden elements in the Quran and within the ethos of Islam.
I have done extensive readings, research and analysis of the Quran.
Evil laden elements within any texts, etc. come in degrees from low to high.
In general more than 55% of all the verses [total 6,236] of the Quran contain a reasonable degree of evil [contempt, hatred] against non-Muslims. There are also a high percentage of other types of evils and violent elements in the Quran that are directed at non-Muslims.

The Quran do not have verses that are direct & explicit in commanding Muslims to fight [kill] non-Muslims.
However the tsunami and wave after wave of evil laden verses in the Quran within a martial ethos
-influenced and inspire those evil prone Muslim in 5b above
-to commit terrible evils and violence
-which they take as their duty to be carried out as a good Muslims to please Allah
-so that they will go to Paradise expeditiously as promised in by Allah in the Quran.

From a philosophical perspective we can judge their acts are not moral but what can you do to stop them when such evil and violence act are carried out in the name of God to relieve existential desperation and despairs.

The additional problem is, for a Muslim the Quran is asserted by Allah to be perfect and cannot be changed. Thus a Muslim must comply with all elements in the 6,236 verses which inevitably comprised the tons of evil laden elements.
Now if they don't comply [within their capability] sincerely with the commands of Allah, then they will go to hell.
Those 'SOME' evil prone Muslims will not hesitate to comply with what Allah commanded them to act as good Muslim. IF they do not comply, then they will to Hell and not reaching Paradise. The resultant consequence is thus this empirical evidence; [29,112]

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Re: Do NOT Bash Muslims

Postby The Golden Turd » Sun Aug 28, 2016 7:25 am

Evil isn't statistical. Acts are, but the concept of evil expands brond facts, and isn't representative of a statistical field. You can't shoot evil or good particles in a laboratory at a gold sheet and count them, it's measured by a different cognitive format all together, and only is referenced statistically by the apparent after effect.

Example.... in the case of Moses, nobody in advance following the kosher concepts of the era would of known what percentage of people are abiding with gods will, and what is not. You can guess, and guess wildly. You can come to the conclusion a region is seemingly damned, but it isn't till God gave the rest of positive knowledge.... ho and find even a few men of good, and I will not wipe the board clean, did Noah and family know the statistical score. Until then, it was guessimation, and that applies a lot of assumption.

Was muhammad's actions evil? Most certainly in Medina- people traded their sovereignty for a peacekeeper, and they were slaughtered for it. I'm left to presume the constitution of Medina was rather foul in not having Rousseau's Checks and Balances, but many states lacked that and didn't genocide out of general frustration of not knowing how to keep the peace and provide stable government. Just I strongly recommend no other Non-Muslim societies from ever inviting in Muslims to supervise their society under such conditions, it certainly worked out terribly for them in this case.

Now, in general directives of applying the Koran, jurisprudence is jurisprudence. The US and British concept of common law precedent is very similar, likely descends from Islam in fact, the Norman's controlled Islamic Sicily prior to invading England, brought a lot of concepts with them, including universities.

We tried a few times in applying, for example, old testament kosher laws regarding siege warfare, and it didn't work out too well. We think of both eras bring equally primitive, but the medieval military system was far more complex than anything the preroman world had to offer in terms of knowledge, tactics, and technology, and it didn't quite fit. We forget the Just War Theory in the old testament was made up Ad Hoc in response to the battle, the threat, the need NOT to provoke needless violence or start conflicts needlessly. Pacifism wasn't a uniquely Christ like idea, it had old testament precedents (and Christ wasn't always the pacifist).

Back water Imams need to make it a imperative to learn as much as possible about the science of jurisprudence, beyond more than just a Islamic school, I'm talking the entirety, bring a expert in laws in general. They should be debating did a judge in Brazil or China in civilian or military courts make the right decision in regards to any sort of law, how they came about that decision, and parallels they make in their school of islam.

I've found no section of the Koran that says to Imams, "In general, it is best to act the barbaric fool, and when in doubt, act blindly, punishing though ignorance instead of comprehensive understanding, for this pleases the lord".

Koran is full of cases where Muhammad acted, superceeding earlier verses of the koran in seeming syllogistic contradiction. Shari'a presumed it knew/knows why, but it isn't written. Your acting on presumptions, when he outright showed reasoning and tolerance was just as acceptable.... Islamic scholars really should consider this.

And yes, Islam has a bad Jihad problem. But Christians also had bad eras in Just War Theory where we did some equally nasty shit. Atheists have done far worst than any religion in modern times, with Hitker, Lenin, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot. Maybe we can just like.... use our brains, and not act like a bunch of ignorant, blood lusting fools? Islam, as a cultural phenomena, does have a problem to deal with, bit at the same time, we shouldn't scapegoat just them. Tamil Tigers were not Muslimsc but far more ferocious in suicide bombings. I'm not going to Dodge the issues by saying stupid stuff like "One mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter", or be like Foucault in excusing terrorism, but I do strongly recommend we look at Islam in a much wider perspective.... they aren't for the most part insane, most mean good, they are caught up in some pretty bizarre rhetoric. Not even a quarter of the actions are blamable on Islam per say, but on regiems with shitheaded outlooks. They are every bit as human as we are, slaves to stupid ideas and hard headed traditions. Educated men in any faith should think deeper.
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Re: Do NOT Bash Muslims

Postby Prismatic567 » Sun Aug 28, 2016 7:26 am

Turd Ferguson wrote:It is said in the Koran you have the government you deserve, does it not? If Muslims insist on stupid, barbaric tyranny, they shall have only that. If they want enlightened approach to dealing with people who threaten society, using their God given power of reason, they too can choose that.
I don't think God's self esteem is so low he needs some ignorant, uneducated fool to strap on a suicide vest to insist on the validity of a few lines of the Koran.
I think you have given too much credit to the Quran than what it really is.

1. Islam is represented by the 6,236 verses of the Quran [words of Allah] and nothing else.
2. A Muslim is a follower of Islam.
3. To be a Muslim a person must enter into a covenant [a spiritual contract] with Allah.
4. The Muslim's obligation within the covenant is thus to comply with the relevant terms and conditions of being a Muslim within the 6,236 verses in the Quran.
5. The Quran contain good and evil laden verses.

Here is a critical factor, note the following human perception in reality;
Image

The Quranic verses, concepts and ideas are presented in such an ambiguous manner that make them vulnerable to a dualistic two-truth interpretations [like the duck-rabbit example above] where both different conceptions are true without doubts from the specific perspectives of the perceivers.

This is why when different groups of Muslims [20% evil prone & 80% moderates] read the same set [not individual verse] of verses from the Quran, the compliance of the 20% evil prone will turn out to be evil while the 80% of the moderates are indifferent to the evil laden elements.

Therefore the fault lies with the Quran which has tons of evil laden elements.

Wiser religions like the Eastern religions [who understand human nature very well] will never include evil laden elements in their holy texts that are presented in an ambiguous manner that can influence their evil prone believers to commit evil. Note Buddhism, Jainism, for example.
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Re: Do NOT Bash Muslims

Postby Prismatic567 » Sun Aug 28, 2016 7:43 am

Turd Ferguson wrote:Evil isn't statistical. Acts are, but the concept of evil expands brond facts, and isn't representative of a statistical field. You can't shoot evil or good particles in a laboratory at a gold sheet and count them, it's measured by a different cognitive format all together, and only is referenced statistically by the apparent after effect.

<snipped>

Because I am relying on the concept evil heavily, I have done extensive research on the topic of evil. I am preparing a reasonable taxonomy of what-is-evil to put the topic into its respective topic.
Like any subjective elements, evil can be quantified just like axiology:

Axiology (from Greek ἀξίᾱ, axiā, "value, worth"; and -λόγος, -logos) is the philosophical study of value. It is either the collective term for ethics and aesthetics[1]—philosophical fields that depend crucially on notions of worth—or the foundation for these fields, and thus similar to value theory and meta-ethics. The term was first used by Paul Lapie, in 1902,[2] and Eduard von Hartmann, in 1908.[3][4]
Axiology studies mainly two kinds of values: ethics and aesthetics. Ethics investigates the concepts of "right" and "good" in individual and social conduct. Aesthetics studies the concepts of "beauty" and "harmony." Formal axiology, the attempt to lay out principles regarding value with mathematical rigor, is exemplified by Robert S. Hartman's Science of Value.


What is necessary is we must understand its limits and always qualify them in our conclusions [based on statistical or other basis].

Btw, have you done a serious study of the Quran? You don't appear to be from what I have read from what you posted so far.
I would strongly suggest you do a serious study of Islam and the Quran if you have not done so. [forget about the Ahadith and Sira in the meantime].
I find the Quran very unpalatable to read but I have no choice if I were understand why SOME Muslims [innocent and unfortunately born with evil tendencies] are committing so much terrible evils and violence around the world.
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Re: Do NOT Bash Muslims

Postby Prismatic567 » Sun Aug 28, 2016 8:07 am

Turd Ferguson wrote:And yes, Islam has a bad Jihad problem. But Christians also had bad eras in Just War Theory where we did some equally nasty shit. Atheists have done far worst than any religion in modern times, with Hitker, Lenin, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot. Maybe we can just like.... use our brains, and not act like a bunch of ignorant, blood lusting fools?
Islam, as a cultural phenomena, does have a problem to deal with, bit at the same time, we shouldn't scapegoat just them.
Tamil Tigers were not Muslims but far more ferocious in suicide bombings.
I'm not going to Dodge the issues by saying stupid stuff like "One mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter", or be like Foucault in excusing terrorism, but I do strongly recommend we look at Islam in a much wider perspective.... they aren't for the most part insane, most mean good, they are caught up in some pretty bizarre rhetoric. Not even a quarter of the actions are blamable on Islam per say, but on regiems with shitheaded outlooks. They are every bit as human as we are, slaves to stupid ideas and hard headed traditions. Educated men in any faith should think deeper.
The critical difference between Islam and other religions & ideologies are the following;

1. Islam is the only religious ideology containing evil laden elements that is claimed to be immutable, i.e. cannot be changed because Allah asserted in the Quran it is perfected as the final revelation for mankind.

2. The Muslims of Islam are forced into a corner with the threat, if they do not obey Allah's immutable commands in the Quran, they will go to hell. This is why the SOME evil prone Muslims will obey all commands from their perspective which include the evil elements in the Quran.

3. Hitler, Lenin, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, ideologies also contain evil laden elements and their followers are also forced in a way to comply with their ideologies. The difference is their ideologies are not immutable at all and are not established by an all powerful God. Followers in these ideologies are not supervised by an all seeing and all knowing Allah who can know what is in the minds of the followers, thus they can disobey if they think they can escape it. Since they are not immutable and all powerful, you will note Hitler and Pol Pot ideologies are got rid off and not practiced in the present. Lenin, Stalin and Mao's ideologies are waning and changing.

4. The Christian ideology is also overseen by an all powerful God but the difference is the BIble has an overriding absolute pacifist maxim of 'Thou Shall Not Kill' and the NT has other positive morals 'love your enemies, the golden rule, give the other cheeks, etc. There are no such things in the Quran. The Christians went on the Crusade once upon a time, but they were not inspired by Jesus' main teaching at all. Jesus never exhorted Christians to fight in wars. The Christians went to the crusade based on their own initiatives and not based on Jesus teachings.

5. The Tamil Tigers are not driven by any immutable holy texts and their ideology and group is now disbanded and not active.

So as long as Islam [based on the Quran] exists, the evil laden elements in the Quran will influence and inspire the naturally born Muslims with active evil tendencies to commit terrible evils and violence.
Secular ideologies are not immutable and can be changed, weaned off or got rid off naturally if they has no moral benefits to mankind in the long run.
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Re: Do NOT Bash Muslims

Postby mannequin » Sun Aug 28, 2016 8:54 am

ok i got a question which i think is relevant.

Would you rather live under a female dominated society where feminism rules, where men are emasculated and are pretty much cuckslaves to women or under an islamic society ruled by the sharia where people are slaves to one god

one or the other..and why?
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Re: Do NOT Bash Muslims

Postby Prismatic567 » Sun Aug 28, 2016 9:12 am

mannequin wrote:ok i got a question which i think is relevant.

Would you rather live under a female dominated society where feminism rules, where men are emasculated and are pretty much cuckslaves to women or under an islamic society ruled by the sharia where people are slaves to one god

one or the other..and why?
Personally I prefer neither, but if I must choose at the present, then I would choose the female dominated society because;

1. Feminism is not an immutable ideology and thus possible to change collectively even within a life time.

2. Islam is immutable and thus cannot be changed for eternity and one cannot opt out of the religion except be killed or under the threat of death.
It is not a question of merely slave to one God, but a slave with the obligation to comply with the terms and conditions in the Quran.
As a Muslim I must comply strictly with all terms and conditions [within my capability] in the Quran which include killing infidels and all sorts of evil deeds otherwise I would be burnt in Hell.
I am a progressive human being, a World Citizen, NOT-a-theist and not religious.
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Re: Do NOT Bash Muslims

Postby The Golden Turd » Sun Aug 28, 2016 10:20 am

Btw, have you done a serious study of the Quran? You don't appear to be from what I have read from what you posted so far.
I would strongly suggest you do a serious study of Islam and the Quran if you have not done so. [forget about the Ahadith and Sira in the meantime].


Yes, more than likely I'm almost certainly better read than you, and was deployed to Iraq for over a year with the US Army, and have read several Islamic philosophers, I strongly promote reading Ibn Khaldun (a excellent historian) and have a few posts on the subject, and am well read in ancient and medieval christianity, both Roman Catholic and Greek Orthodox and Russian Orthodox sources, as well as considerable readings into the influence of Gnostic, Hindi, Bon, Advaitian (Non-dualism school), Stoic & Cynic, Aristotelian influences on the religion. I'm currently studying a Ismaili encyclopedia on philosophy. I can also give a fair account of several islamic dynasties, tactics and strategems they used, the early development of social anthropology within islam, Islamic interactions with the Russian States then the Tsars, with Byzantium including several authors associated with the fall, military texts the Byzantines and Franks developed for fighting the muslims back in Capadocia and Egypt, a general grasp of the history of Islamic Spain and Sicily, the pirates in the med from the 12th century to Thomas Jefferson's invasion of the Barbary Statesc Islam's early history in the Slave South, the christian diaspora after the collapse of the Ottoman Empire, Armenia and Georgia's history with islamic raids and occupations, and a whole lot more, including current events across the muslim world.

I suggest you reconsider insisting other people you know very little about are unread or ignorant on the subject matter they speak of.

And yes, I'm quite christian, and yes, your exaggerating and largely full of shit.

Muslims aren't idiots, they are a very modern people. When you treat them intellectually as you do, they become resentful, because they generally are a hell of alot smarter than narrow minded stereotypes suppose. Their religion has some issues, but most are aware of this. I've had some good muslim friends over the years, and they know I won't sugarcoat Islam to remain on good terms.... but I don't demonize them either past where the problems lie, and I try to offer up earnest and honest assessments.

If Islam fixed it's Jurispudence issues, it would be a much more balanced religion. That's the plain and simple truth. Has nothing to do with arbitrarily saying Ethos.... I'm a Stoic philosopher who specializes in Ethics, it is you who appears to be wildly throwing around terms you don't understand.

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I've mentioned enough islamic philosophers in the past on the sight, you can search my records.

Careful who you try to pull your learned Mr. Know-it-all scholar stunt on. I'm also a expert in military writings from around the world. Brutally well read.
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Re: Do NOT Bash Muslims

Postby Amorphos » Sun Aug 28, 2016 5:56 pm

Its is not Islam which drives terrorism, but paedophilia [and other mental health issues]. People who do shit like that read that the prophet Mohammed married a 9 yr old girl, and they read into this a way to excuse themselves. However, people cannot lie to themselves, doing shit like that to human beings [Gods children] is going to have an impact upon the subconscious, one which manifests a pressure which needs a valve. Then that comes in the form of a scapegoat, something and someone else they can blame the evil in the world on, so that they don't have to blame themselves.

People don't do insane things like drive trucks into pedestrians, without having serious mental health issues!

We can't get rid of Islam nor should we, as religion isn't the crux of the issue, mental health is. That's what generates what I call 'religionism' [one being excessively religions]; people who don't have mental health issues and don't fuck children or do any shit like that in real terms, don't feel the [extreme] need to kill themselves and become martyrs, they just get on with life.

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Re: Do NOT Bash Muslims

Postby Ecmandu » Sun Aug 28, 2016 6:32 pm

Well... I loathe marriage...

But in defense of Mohammed ...

He married those women to get them out of slavery...

Much the opposite of how Islam is taught ...

They think wives are slaves
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Re: Do NOT Bash Muslims

Postby Ecmandu » Sun Aug 28, 2016 6:48 pm

Ecmandu wrote:Well... I loathe marriage...

But in defense of Mohammed ...

He married those women to get them out of slavery...

Much the opposite of how Islam is taught ...

They think wives are slaves


What people don't realize about Mohammed ...

He was certainly a horny man...

But actually, he was for women's rights...

He bought or bargained women out of slavery by marrying them...

He had 600 some wives when he died...

And I highly doubt he consummated all of them...

It was a social service of the time
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Re: Do NOT Bash Muslims

Postby Ecmandu » Sun Aug 28, 2016 6:56 pm

Mohammed just tried to do the best with what he felt was safe at the time...

Politics always tries to interfere with the spirit...

It's not an unusual story
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Re: Do NOT Bash Muslims

Postby Amorphos » Sun Aug 28, 2016 8:33 pm

Ecmandu wrote:Well... I loathe marriage...

But in defense of Mohammed ...

He married those women to get them out of slavery...

Much the opposite of how Islam is taught ...

They think wives are slaves


for sure, but I was highlighting that people read it subjectively, and so if he says its ok to them its ok, even though 'ok' here is two completely different things. I am sure it is more world wide culture than religion itself.

- I expect we were like it in the past too, everyone living in single roomed homes and what have you.

I am not blaming people for their inheritance, I just think that honesty to themselves will tell them the truth of it. it is societies which need to change not necessarily religions [although they all suck too], it isn't ok to say 'oh its ok, as it is traditional to cook babies in carthage', or some equivalent.

doing shit IS doing shit, excuses ARE excuses, no?
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Re: Do NOT Bash Muslims

Postby Ecmandu » Sun Aug 28, 2016 11:04 pm

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Re: Do NOT Bash Muslims

Postby Ecmandu » Sun Aug 28, 2016 11:07 pm

Ecmandu wrote:Well... Then there's this !!!

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/daylightat ... n-muslims/


Additionally... You know what's funny about religion???

The best non idolators in the world have always been and will always be atheists !!!
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Re: Do NOT Bash Muslims

Postby Amorphos » Sun Aug 28, 2016 11:20 pm

Ecmandu wrote:
Ecmandu wrote:Well... Then there's this !!!

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/daylightat ... n-muslims/


Additionally... You know what's funny about religion???

The best non idolators in the world have always been and will always be atheists !!!


lol yes. thing with the quote is that there are plenty of contradicting quotes. you have to be in the group or you are Frankenstein's monster, when the truth is that they themselves are. ...I am not blaming people for nature being nature, nor causality being what it is, its just that we are reaching times when it has to change. the weaponry of the future [near] is going to send it all to hell otherwise.
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Re: Do NOT Bash Muslims

Postby Ecmandu » Sun Aug 28, 2016 11:22 pm

Ecmandu wrote:
Ecmandu wrote:Well... Then there's this !!!

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/daylightat ... n-muslims/


Additionally... You know what's funny about religion???

The best non idolators in the world have always been and will always be atheists !!!


Allah wants exaltation above all others, and Allah will be the lowest of them...

There is a continual judgement, not a final one
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Re: Do NOT Bash Muslims

Postby Arminius » Mon Aug 29, 2016 12:19 am

mannequin wrote:ok i got a question which i think is relevant.

Would you rather live under a female dominated society where feminism rules, where men are emasculated and are pretty much cuckslaves to women or under an islamic society ruled by the sharia where people are slaves to one god

one or the other..and why?

I often ask that too. It is an interesting and - unfortunately - a currently relevant question. But I have to ask back: How much feminisation and/or islamisation do you mean, if you not always and not exclusively mean each of both as a whole (100%)?

Feminism is a product of the Occidental culture, whereas islamism is a product of the Arabic/Islamic culture. Although they contradict each other, they can and do, as we can currently experience in Europe, also complement each other (unfortunately).

Both are totalitarian, but totalitarianism is a product of the Occidental culture too. So islamism in a reaction to many Occidental phenomena is not only their contradiction but also their antithesis in the meaning of Hegel’s dialectic. Thus islamism has indeed become a part of the Occidental historical process.

And (because of: Cui bono?): Are globalists Hegelians (namely both Left-Hegelians and Right-Hegelians)?
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Re: Do NOT Bash Muslims

Postby Mictlantecuhtli » Mon Aug 29, 2016 1:29 am

*Bash*, *Bash*
Civilization is a ship of fools headed to a one way destination of catastrophe and annihilation, its many captains populated by asshole-idiots that all agree it is unsinkable.

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