Discussion: Quran and Wife Beating

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Discussion: Quran and Wife Beating

Postby Prismatic567 » Sun Sep 18, 2016 5:25 am

Re translation of the Quran or any religious texts, I posted the following in another post;

    Thus it is very common where some verses and words in the Quran are translated from one extreme to other extreme by different translators depending on their necessary personal bias and interests. The Quran is translated into English by the very moderate Muslims like the Ahmadiyahs and by those from other extremes, the Salafist/Wahabbis.

Here are 50++ translations of Quran chapter 4:34 into English which involve the controversy of the Quran permitting man to "beat" their wives with the blessing of Allah.

From these translations one will note the wide variations of the mode of punishment if the wive is not submissive to the husband. The majority of the translators translate a "beat" "strike" "hit" "beat [lightly]" and the others have variations like merely admonish, ignore, separate them, etc.

Note many of these translators [Muslims and non-Muslims] are themselves experts in Arabic.

In view of the extreme range of translations who are we to believe.
In this case we have to refer to the overall context of the Quran, ethos of Islam and the personal interests [& background] of the translators. Having consider all of the above I believe "beat" "strike" is most appropriate translation in alignment with Allah's intent.

In addition, the Quran is commanded to be immutable, i.e. cannot be changed, thus this rule of 'beating' the wife is supposed to be eternal.

....................................................
The 50+ English Translations of 4:34
The author is in the beginning.

Muhammad Asad: MEN SHALL take full care of women with the bounties which God has bestowed more abundantly on the former than on the latter, and with what they may spend out of their possessions. And the righteous women are the truly devout ones, who guard the intimacy which God has [ordained to be] guarded. And as for those women whose ill-will you have reason to fear, admonish them [first]; then leave them alone in bed; then beat them; and if thereupon they pay you heed, do not seek to harm them. Behold, God is indeed most high, great! zoom

M. M. Pickthall: Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Lo! Allah is ever High, Exalted, Great. zoom

Shakir: Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great. zoom

Yusuf Ali (Saudi Rev. 1985) Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband's) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means (of annoyance): For Allah is Most High, great (above you all). zoom

Yusuf Ali (Orig. 1938) Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because God has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband's) ab sence what God would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means (of annoyance): For God is Most High, great (above you all). zoom

Dr. Laleh Bakhtiar Men are supporters of wives because God gave some of them an advantage over others and because they spent of their wealth. So the females, ones in accord with morality are the females, ones who are morally obligated and the females, ones who guard the unseen of what God kept safe. And those females whose resistance you fear, then admonish them (f) and abandon them (f) in their sleeping places and go away from them (f). Then if they (f) obeyed you, then look not for any way against them (f). Truly, God had been Lofty, Great. zoom

Wahiduddin Khan Men are protectors of women, because God has made some of them excel others and because they spend their wealth on them. So virtuous women are obedient and guard in the husbands absence what God would have them guard. As for those from whom you apprehend infidelity, admonish them, then refuse to share their beds, and finally hit them [lightly].[5] Then if they obey you, take no further action against them. For God is High, Great. zoom

T.B.Irving Men are the ones who should support women since God has given some persons advantages over others, and because they should spend their wealth [on them]. Honorable women are steadfast, guarding the Unseen just as God has it guarded. Admonish those women whose surliness you fear, and leave them alone in their beds, and [even] beat them [if necessary]. If they obey you, do not seek any way [to proceed] against them. God is Sublime, Great. zoom

Safi Kaskas Husbands have charge of their wives with the wealth God has given to some over others, and with what they spend out of their wealth. Righteous wives are truly devout, and they guard what God has ordained them to guard in their husbands' absence. If you have reason to fear ill-will from your wives, remind them of the teachings of God, then ignore them when you go to bed, then depart away from them. If they obey you, do not seek to harm them. God is most high and great. zoom

[Al-Muntakhab] Men are the tutelary guardians of women's interests and welfare by consequence of, the inherent constitutional qualities and attributes Allah has invested in one, above the other, and by virtue of the expenditure they incur. Virtuous women are obedient and' responsible, morally accountable for their deeds and capable of fulfilling an obligation and trust in their husbands' absence; virtues that accord well with divine principles. As to those of them whom you consider pervasive and you have a cause to fear, you simply exhort them and urge them by kind words to laudable conduct. Should they turn a deaf ear then absent yourselves from their society in bed. If they still sleep in the bed they have made, then beat them. But if they submit to your good will at any stage and surrender themselves to correction, then do not crush their feelings, their minds or their spirits; nor keep them under tyrannical exercise of power or burden them with cruel and unjust impositions or restraints; Allah is ever the Unique Whose attributes belong to the highest regions of thought and reality, the Unique Who is ever eminently entitled to the designation: The Supreme. zoom

[The Monotheist Group] (2011 Edition) The men are to support the women by what God has gifted them over one another and for what they spend of their money. The upright women who are attentive, and keep private the personal matters for what God keeps watch over. As for those women from whom you fear a desertion, then you shall advise them, and abandon them in the bedchamber, and separate from them; if they obey you, then do not seek a way over them; God is High, Great. zoom

Abdel Haleem Husbands should take good care of their wives, with [the bounties] God has given to some more than others and with what they spend out of their own money. Righteous wives are devout and guard what God would have them guard in their husbands’ absence. If you fear high-handedness from your wives, remind them [of the teachings of God], then ignore them when you go to bed, then hit them. If they obey you, you have no right to act against them: God is most high and great. zoom

Abdul Majid Daryabadi Men are overseers over women, by reason of that wherewith Allah hath made one of them excel over anot her, and by reason of that which they expend of their substance. Wherefore righteous women are obedient, and are watchers in husbands absence by the aid and protection of Allah. And those wives whose refractoriness ye fear, exhort them, and avoid them in beds, and beat them; but if they obey you, seek not a way against them; verily Allah is ever Lofty, Grand. zoom

Ahmed Ali Men are the support of women as God gives some more means than others, and because they spend of their wealth (to provide for them). So women who are virtuous are obedient to God and guard the hidden as God has guarded it. As for women you feel are averse, talk to them suasively; then leave them alone in bed (without molesting them) and go to bed with them (when they are willing). If they open out to you, do not seek an excuse for blaming them. Surely God is sublime and great. zoom

Aisha Bewley Men have charge of women because Allah has preferred the one above the other and because they spend their wealth on them. Right-acting women are obedient, safeguarding their husbands´ interests in their absence as Allah has guarded them. If there are women whose disobedience you fear, you may admonish them, refuse to sleep with them, and then beat them. But if they obey you, do not look for a way to punish them. Allah is All-High, Most Great. zoom

Ali Ünal Men (those who are able to carry out their responsibilities) are the protectors and maintainers of women inasmuch as God has endowed some of people (in some respects) with greater capacity than others and inasmuch as they (the men) spend of their wealth (for the family’s maintenance). Good, righteous women are the devoted ones (to God) and observant (of their husbands’ rights), who guard the secrets (family honor and property, their chastity, and their husband’s rights, especially where there is none to see them and in the absence of men) as God guards and keeps undisclosed (what should be guarded and private). As for those women from whose determined disobedience and breach of their marital obligations you have reason to fear, admonish them (to do what is right); then, (if that proves to be of no avail), remain apart from them in beds; then (if that too proves to be of no avail) beat them (lightly without beating them in their faces). Then if they obey you (in your directing them to observe God’s rights and their marital obligations) do not seek ways against them (to harm them). (Be ever mindful that) God is indeed All-Exalted, All-Great. zoom

Ali Quli Qara'i Men are the managers of women, because of the advantage Allah has granted some of them over others, and by virtue of their spending out of their wealth. So righteous women are obedient, care-taking in the absence [of their husbands] of what Allah has enjoined [them] to guard. As for those [wives] whose misconduct you fear, [first] advise them, and [if ineffective] keep away from them in the bed, and [as the last resort] beat them. Then if they obey you, do not seek any course [of action] against them. Indeed Allah is all-exalted, all-great. zoom

Hamid S. Aziz Men are qawwam (have charge of, are protectors, maintainers) of women in that Allah hath made them superior in strength (or advantages), and in that they expend of their wealth (in support of women). So virtuous women are devoted (or obedient), careful (i zoom

Muhammad Mahmoud Ghali Men are the ever upright (managers) (of the affairs) of women for what Allah has graced some of them over (some) others and for what they have expended of their riches. So righteous women are devout, preservers of the Unseen for. And the ones whom you fear their non-compliance, then admonish them and forsake them in their beds, (Literally: a madajic= reeclining) and strike them, (i.e. hit them lightly) yet in case they obey you, then do not seek inequitably any way against them; surely Allah has been Ever-Exalted, Ever-Great. zoom

Muhammad Sarwar Men are the protectors of women because of the greater preference that God has given to some of them and because they financially support them. Among virtuous women are those who are steadfast in prayer and dependable in keeping the secrets that God has protected. Admonish women who disobey (God's laws), do not sleep with them and beat them. If they obey (the laws of God), do not try to find fault in them. God is High and Supreme. zoom

Muhammad Taqi Usmani Men are caretakers of women, since Allah has made some of them excel the others, and because of the wealth they have spent. So, the righteous women are obedient, (and) guard (the property and honor of their husbands) in (their) absence with the protection given by Allah. As for women of whom you fear rebellion, convince them, and leave them apart in beds, and beat them. Then, if they obey you, do not seek a way against them. Surely, Allah is the Highest, the Greatest. zoom

Shabbir Ahmed Men are the protectors and maintainers of women. They shall take full care of women with what they spend of their wealth. Allah has made men to excel in some areas and women to excel in some areas. Men must see to it that women are provided for, and that they are able to stand on their feet in the society. So, righteous women are obedient to Allah's Ordinances and guard their moral values even in privacy, the Values that Allah Commands to be guarded. If you experience rebellion from women, and they stand up against you, apprise them of possible consequences. Next, leave them in their resting places apart from you. And keep admonishing them with examples that they stop rebelling. If they pay heed to you, seek not a way against them. Allah is Most High, Great. zoom

Syed Vickar Ahamed Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husbands) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part you fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, caution (and warn) them (against the specific faults, at first), refuse to share their beds (next), beat them (lightly, at the very last); But if they return to obedience, seek not against them means (of angering them): Truly, Allah is Most High (Ali’i), Most Great (Kabir). zoom

Umm Muhammad (Sahih International) Men are in charge of women by [right of] what Allah has given one over the other and what they spend [for maintenance] from their wealth. So righteous women are devoutly obedient, guarding in [the husband's] absence what Allah would have them guard. But those [wives] from whom you fear arrogance - [first] advise them; [then if they persist], forsake them in bed; and [finally], strike them. But if they obey you [once more], seek no means against them. Indeed, Allah is ever Exalted and Grand. zoom

Farook Malik Men are overseers over women because Allah has given the one more strength than the other, and because men are required to spend their wealth for the maintenance of women. Honorable women are, therefore, devoutly obedient and guard in the husband’s absence what Allah requires them to guard their husband’s property and their own honor. As to those women from whom you fear disobedience, first admonish them, then refuse to share your bed with them, and then, if necessary, beat them. Then if they obey you, take no further actions against them and do not make excuses to punish them. Allah is Supremely Great and is aware of your actions. zoom

Dr. Munir Munshey Men are (appointed) in charge (and the caretakers) of women _ (they are held responsible for maintaining the women physically, financially, and emotionally) _ because Allah has given the one precedence over the other. Also, because they spend their means (to support the women). Thus, the virtuous women are obedient. They guard the rights of their husbands in their absence _ (the right) that Allah has upheld. If you perceive defiance (and disloyalty) from your women, admonish them, (then) keep them apart from your bed, and (then, as a last resort) beat them. If they relent and obey, do not seek the means to harass them. Of course, Allah is the most High, the Greatest! zoom

Dr. Mohammad Tahir-ul-Qadri Men are guardians of women, because Allah has made one superior to the other, and (also) because men spend their wealth (on them). So the pious wives are obedient. They guard (their chastity) in the absence of their husbands with the protection of Allah. But those women whom you fear will disobey and defy, admonish them; and (if they do not amend) separate them (from yourselves) in beds; and (if they still do not improve) turn away from them, striking a temporary parting. Then if they become cooperative with you, do not seek any way against them. Surely, Allah is Most High, Most Great. zoom

Dr. Kamal Omar The men are Qawwam (protectors, maintainers and guardians) over women because of what Allah has bestowed more to some of those (who constitute the community as men and women) in comparison to others, and because what the men spent (on the family members) out of their earnings (and wealth). Therefore the righteous women (are those who are) devoutly obedient (in accordance with the limits set in the Book of Allah), acting as guards to the hidden aspect of what Allah has guarded. And those women (from whom) you (husbands) apprehend their attitude of disruption and break-up — so deliver them the Message, (if still they do not correct their attitude) leave them (unresponded in their sexual desires) in their beds, (if still they do not mend and the breakdown of the family-bond is imminent) wazribuhunna [then bring forward to them (the suggestion for dissolution of marriage)]. Then if these women obeyed you (the way Allah desires in His Book) then do not seek against them any outlet (to get rid of them). Surely, Allah is Most Elevated, Most High. zoom

Talal A. Itani (new translation) Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, as God has given some of them an advantage over others, and because they spend out of their wealth. The good women are obedient, guarding what God would have them guard. As for those from whom you fear disloyalty, admonish them, and abandon them in their beds, then strike them. But if they obey you, seek no way against them. God is Sublime, Great. zoom

Bilal Muhammad (2013 Edition) Men and women support one another, because God has given each of them more than the other, and because they spend from their wealth. So the righteous women, being loyal, maintain in their absence what God would have them maintain. As for those whom you suspect disloyalty, advise them, refrain from sleeping with them, and separate from them. However, if they return to loyalty, do not try to harm them, for God is the Most High, the Great. zoom

Maududi Men are the protec-tors and maintainers of women because Allah has made one of them excel over the other, and because they spend out of their possessions (to support them). Thus righteous women are obedient and guard the rights of men in their absence under Allah´s protection. As for women of whom you fear rebellion, admonish them, and remain apart from them in beds, and beat them. Then if they obey you, do not seek ways to harm them. Allah is Exalted, Great. zoom

Ali Bakhtiari Nejad Men are caretakers of women because of what God graced some over the others and for what they spend from their wealth. So good women are loyal, looking after what God takes care of in the absence (of their husband). And those whom you are afraid of their disloyalty (in their marital duties), then advise them, and keep away from them in beds, and (if that or nothing else worked) then spank them (fairly and not out of anger), but if they agreed with you, then do not look for a way against them. God is superior and great. zoom

[The Monotheist Group] (2013 Edition) The men are to support the women with what God has bestowed upon them over one another and for what they spend of their money. The upright females are dutiful; keeping private the personal matters for what God keeps watch over. As for those females from whom you fear desertion, then you shall advise them, and abandon them in the bedchamber, and separate from them. If they respond to you, then do not seek a way over them; God is Most High, Great. zoom

Mohammad Shafi Men are the supports of women, since Allah has favoured some over others in certain respects, and since men are required to bear all family expenses from their (men's) property. The righteous women then are obedient guardians of privacy as Allah has guarded it. And as for those women, on whose part you fear refractoriness, admonish them, leave them alone in beds and turn away from them. Then if they obey you, do not resort to any punitive measure against them. Indeed, Allah is High, Great. zoom

Bijan Moeinian Men are put in charge of women; that is because, God has simply decided to provide them with faculties which facilitate this task of them and also that they spend out of their resources for their wives’ maintenance. The righteous women would gladly accept this division of the task as it is God’s commandment. They will therefore keep vigilance on their husband’s honor and belonging in their absence. As far as those women who rebel this commandment of their Lord, first try to reason with them and advise them of the consequence of rebelling against their Creator. If they do not submit them, punish them by separating your bedroom. As a last resort, you may beat them [not in a violent manner]. If they come to their senses, be nice to them; God is the Highest and the Greatest zoom

Faridul Haque Men are in charge of women, as Allah has made one of them superior to the other, and because men spend their wealth for the women; so virtuous women are the reverent ones, guarding behind their husbands the way Allah has decreed guarding; and the women from whom you fear disobedience, (at first) advise them and (then) do not cohabit with them, and (lastly) beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek to do injustice to them; indeed Allah is Supreme, Great. zoom

Hasan Al-Fatih Qaribullah Men are the maintainers of women for that Allah has preferred in bounty one of them over another, and for that they have spent of their wealth. Righteous women are obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah has guarded. Those from whom you fear rebelliousness, admonish them and desert them in the bed and smack them (without harshness). Then, if they obey you, do not look for any way against them. Allah is High, Great. zoom

Maulana Muhammad Ali Men are the maintainers of women, with what Allah has made some of them to excel others and with what they spend out of their wealth. So the good women are obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded. And (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the beds and chastise them. So if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Surely Allah is ever Exalted, Great. zoom

Muhammad Ahmed - Samira The men (are) taking care of matters for livelihood on (for) the women with what God preferred/favoured some of them (men and women) on some, and with what they spent from their (M) properties/possession , so the correct/righteous females are obeying humbly , worshipping humbly, protecting/safekeeping to the invisible with what God protected ; and those whom (F) you fear their (F) quarrel (disobedience) , so advise/warn them (F) and desert/abandon them (F) in the place of lying down (beds), and ignore/disregard/push them (F) , so if they obeyed you, so do not oppress/transgress on them (F) a way/method, that God was/is high, mighty/great. zoom

Sher Ali Men are guardians over women because ALLAH has made some of them excel others, and because men spend on them of their wealth. So virtuous women are obedient, and guard the secrets of their husbands with ALLAH's protection. And as for those on whose part you fear disobedience, admonish them and keep away from them in their beds and chastise them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Surely, ALLAH is High and Great. zoom

Rashad Khalifa The men are made responsible for the women, and GOD has endowed them with certain qualities, and made them the bread earners. The righteous women will cheerfully accept this arrangement, since it is GOD's commandment, and honor their husbands during their absence. If you experience rebellion from the women, you shall first talk to them, then (you may use negative incentives like) deserting them in bed, then you may (as a last alternative) beat them. If they obey you, you are not permitted to transgress against them. GOD is Most High, Supreme. zoom

Ahmed Raza Khan (Barelvi) Men are incharge over women, because Allah has made one of them excel over another, and because men have expended their wealth over them, so the virtuous women are submissive, they keep watch in the absence of husband as Allah commanded to watch. And as to those women whose disobedience you fear, then admonish them and sleep apart from them, and beat them (lightly), then if they come under your command, then seek not any way of excess against them. Undoubtedly, Allah is Exalted, Great. zoom

Amatul Rahman Omar Men are the full maintainers of women, because Allah has made one of them excel the other, and because men spend out of their wealth on them. So virtuous women are those who are obedient (to Allah) and guard (their own chastity as well as the rights and secrets of their husbands even) in (their) absence, as Allah has guarded (the women's rights). As for those women (on whose part) you apprehend disobedience and bad behavior, you may admonish them (first lovingly) and (then) refuse to share their beds with them and (as a last resort) punish them (mildly). If they, then, obey you, you shall seek no other way against them. Indeed, Allah alone is High, (and) Great. zoom

Muhsin Khan & Muhammad al-Hilali Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has made one of them to excel the other, and because they spend (to support them) from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient (to Allah and to their husbands), and guard in the husbands absence what Allah orders them to guard (e.g. their chastity, their husbands property, etc.). As to those women on whose part you see illconduct, admonish them (first), (next), refuse to share their beds, (and last) beat them (lightly, if it is useful), but if they return to obedience, seek not against them means (of annoyance). Surely, Allah is Ever Most High, Most Great. zoom


Arthur John Arberry Men are the managers of the affairs of women for that God has preferred in bounty one of them over another, and for that they have expended of their property. Righteous women are therefore obedient, guarding the secret for God's guarding. And those you fear may be rebellious admonish; banish them to their couches, and beat them. If they then obey you, look not for any way against them; God is All-high, All-great. zoom

Edward Henry Palmer Men stand superior to women in that God hath preferred some of them over others, and in that they expend of their wealth: and the virtuous women, devoted, careful (in their husbands') absence, as God has cared for them. But those whose perverseness ye fear, admonish them and remove them into bed-chambers and beat them; but if they submit to you, then do not seek a way against them; verily, God is high and great. zoom

George Sale Men shall have the pre-eminence above women, because of those advantages wherein God hath caused the one of them to excel the other, and for that which they expend of their substance in maintaining their wives. The honest women are obedient, careful in the absence of their husbands, for that God preserveth them, by committing them to the care and protection of the men. But those, whose perverseness ye shall be apprehensive of, rebuke; and remove them into separate apartments, and chastise them. But if they shall be obedient unto you, seek not an occasion of quarrel against them; for God is high and great. zoom

John Medows Rodwell Men are superior to women on account of the qualities with which God hath gifted the one above the other, and on account of the outlay they make from their substance for them. Virtuous women are obedient, careful, during the husband's absence, because God hath of them been careful. But chide those for whose refractoriness ye have cause to fear; remove them into beds apart, and scourage them: but if they are obedient to you, then seek not occasion against them: verily, God is High, Great! zoom

N J Dawood (draft) Men have authority; over women because God has made the one superior to the other, and because they spend their wealth to maintain them. Good women are obedient. They guard their unseen parts because God has guarded them. As for those from whom you fear disobedience, admonish them, forsake them in beds apart, and beat them. Then if they obey you, take no further action against them. Surely God is high, supreme. zoom

Sayyid Qutb Men shall take full care of women with the bounties with which God has favoured some of them more abundantly than others, and with what they may spend of their own wealth. The righteous women are devout, guarding the intimacy which God has ordained to be guarded. As for those women from whom you have reason to fear rebellion, admonish them [first]; then leave them alone in bed; then beat them. Then, if they pay you heed, do not seek any pretext to harm them. God is indeed Most High, Great. zoom

Ahmed Hulusi Men are protectors over women. Based on qualities Allah manifests from His bounty, some are superior to others; they give from their wealth unrequitedly. Righteous women are respectable and obedient toward their husbands. They guard their unknown with Allah’s protection (they do not unite with other men when alone). Advise your spouses (help them to recognize their mistakes), whom you suspect may be disobedient (unable to carry the responsibilities of marriage), (if they resist to understand) then forsake them in bed, and if this does not help either then strike them (enough to offend them). If they obey you then take no further action against them. Indeed, Allah is the Aliy, the Kabir. zoom

Sayyed Abbas Sadr-Ameli Men have authority over women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property (for the support of women) . Therefore, the good women are obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded. And (as to) those (women) on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and avoid them in beds and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; verily Allah is Ever-High, Ever-Great. zoom

Mir Aneesuddin Men are established over women because of that in which Allah has been (more) gracious to some (men), compared to others (women), and because of that which the (men) spend from their wealth; therefore the righteous women are obedient, guardians of the unseen (their chastity in all respects), which Allah (orders that it should be) guarded. And as for those (women) from whom you fear confrontation, admonish them and leave them alone in their sleeping places and strike them (by word or action) then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them, Allah is certainly High, Great.
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Re: Discussion: Quran and Wife Beating

Postby Prismatic567 » Sun Sep 18, 2016 10:37 am

Contemporary translations sometimes water down the word 'beat', but it is the same one used in verse 8:12 and clearly means 'to strike' and the likes.

    8:12. When thy Lord inspired the angels, (saying:) I [Allah] am with you.
    So make those who believe [Muslims] stand firm.
    I will throw fear [terror] into the hearts of those [infidels] who disbelieve.
    Then smite [fa-iḍ'ribū: Daad-Ra-Ba] the necks and smite [wa-iḍ'ribū] of them each finger.

Those translators who white-washed and translated the arabic word fa-iḍ'ribū to ignore, admonish, separate them, chastise, punish, are wrong.
This is why knowing a bit of Arabic helps.

There is no mentioned of degrees in the beating and some wife abusers will take it to the the limit to vent their rage on some poor souls just because Allah said so and gave sanction.
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Re: Discussion: Quran and Wife Beating

Postby Ultimate Philosophy 1001 » Sun Sep 18, 2016 1:46 pm

Personally, if a woman constantly lies to her partner, misses/abandons meetings, abuses their money, never keeps their promises, and generally sabotages everything in the relationship, sometimes words cannot be enough to change their behavior.
Sometimes certain measures have to be taken. Course, this is never permitted in the modernized, cuck-ized, land of female "do-whatever-you-want bc your man isn't allowed to do anything about it" entitlement.
Of course, actual sociopaths are celebrated in society, but if someone slaps a sociopath that is crossing the line and illegal, because physical pain is the worst possible thing, words are civilized, damaging the mind and spirit, reducing someone's freedom to a sand and spec, perfectly acceptable.
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Re: Discussion: Quran and Wife Beating

Postby Amorphos » Sun Sep 18, 2016 5:47 pm

Muhammad Asad: MEN SHALL take full care of women with the bounties which God has bestowed more abundantly on the former than on the latter


Human beings are equivalent, they change over time, and many species have superior [athletic/strength] females to males. If God exists he made nature.

And the righteous women are the truly devout ones, who guard the intimacy which God has [ordained to be] guarded.


And yet when Moses put his hand in his cloak it became diseased and withered. nature is Gods work [creation manifest] and its beauty should be honoured.
The truth is naked,
Once it is written it is lost.
Genius is the result of the entire product of man.
The cosmic insignificance of humanity, shows the cosmic insignificance of a universe without humanity.
the fully painted picture, reveals an empty canvas
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Re: Discussion: Quran and Wife Beating

Postby Mr Reasonable » Mon Sep 19, 2016 7:37 am

So do you agree or disagree with beating women?
You see...a pimp's love is very different from that of a square.
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Re: Discussion: Quran and Wife Beating

Postby Prismatic567 » Mon Sep 19, 2016 7:55 am

Mr Reasonable wrote:So do you agree or disagree with beating women?

Me?
I don't agree, especially in our modern era [2016] beating of a wife or any other human is evil and immoral. To respect the basic dignity of any human being, there should be no beating of any human being, either male or female

But the problem with Islam is the tenets, rules, permissions, etc. in the Quran are immutable and cannot be changed.
Thus the permission to beat the wife is supposed to be eternal and the number of abusive husbands are not expected to disappear soon. Thus Islam [in this respect] is condoning evil and morality as sanction by a God.

A supposedly true God would never allow such evil and immorality in any God's holy texts and religion. The reality is the Quran was never authored by a God but rather by a human or a group of people with evil prone tendencies. As such humanity in general must address this man-made issue and take necessary corrective actions.
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Re: Discussion: Quran and Wife Beating

Postby Mr Reasonable » Mon Sep 19, 2016 8:06 am

What about when a bitch gets married in a christian church and the preacher guy says she has to "love, honor and obey" her new husband. Why's she gotta obey him? Does that mean he can rape her? What are we talking about here?
You see...a pimp's love is very different from that of a square.
Dating a stripper is like eating a noisy bag of chips in church. Everyone looks at you in disgust, but deep down they want some too.

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Support the innocence project on AmazonSmile instead of Turd's African savior biker dude.
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Re: Discussion: Quran and Wife Beating

Postby Prismatic567 » Mon Sep 19, 2016 8:27 am

Mr Reasonable wrote:What about when a bitch gets married in a christian church and the preacher guy says she has to "love, honor and obey" her new husband. Why's she gotta obey him? Does that mean he can rape her? What are we talking about here?
You are deflecting and off topic. Such a deflection is not healthy for any intellectual discussion. Raise that issue in another OP to discuss.
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Re: Discussion: Quran and Wife Beating

Postby Mr Reasonable » Mon Sep 19, 2016 8:32 am

How is it off topic? You're talking about how a religious text relates to the oppression of women right?

So doesn't it say someplace in the bible that women should obey their husbands?

It seems completely on topic to ask that question.
You see...a pimp's love is very different from that of a square.
Dating a stripper is like eating a noisy bag of chips in church. Everyone looks at you in disgust, but deep down they want some too.

What exactly is logic? -Magnus Anderson

Support the innocence project on AmazonSmile instead of Turd's African savior biker dude.
http://www.innocenceproject.org/
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Re: Discussion: Quran and Wife Beating

Postby Ultimate Philosophy 1001 » Mon Sep 19, 2016 1:34 pm

Prismatic567 wrote:
Mr Reasonable wrote:So do you agree or disagree with beating women?

Me?
I don't agree, especially in our modern era [2016] beating of a wife or any other human is evil and immoral. To respect the basic dignity of any human being, there should be no beating of any human being, either male or female


What if the female doesn't respect the basic dignity of her man?
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Re: Discussion: Quran and Wife Beating

Postby MValuch » Mon Sep 19, 2016 7:51 pm

So many different people translated the Quran into English? Really?
I wished they used their time and energy for a more worthy tasks. And you should do the same.
Treat your woman as your conscience tell you, don't try to lead your life according to the book that is full of contradictions.
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Re: Discussion: Quran and Wife Beating

Postby Prismatic567 » Tue Sep 20, 2016 3:42 am

Mr Reasonable wrote:How is it off topic? You're talking about how a religious text relates to the oppression of women right?

So doesn't it say someplace in the bible that women should obey their husbands?

It seems completely on topic to ask that question.
The OP is SPECIFICALLY "Quran" and "Wife Beating" not Religions [& texts] and Wife Beating nor 'Religions and Oppression of women rights'
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Re: Discussion: Quran and Wife Beating

Postby Prismatic567 » Tue Sep 20, 2016 3:47 am

MValuch wrote:So many different people translated the Quran into English? Really?
I wished they used their time and energy for a more worthy tasks. And you should do the same.
Treat your woman as your conscience tell you, don't try to lead your life according to the book that is full of contradictions.
Really? What proofs do you want when in the OP I have listed 50++ English translations of the Quran. There are more less known ones which are not listed above.

Btw, WHO ARE YOU to judge other people? A God?
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Re: Discussion: Quran and Wife Beating

Postby Mr Reasonable » Tue Sep 20, 2016 5:53 am

Prismatic567 wrote:
Mr Reasonable wrote:How is it off topic? You're talking about how a religious text relates to the oppression of women right?

So doesn't it say someplace in the bible that women should obey their husbands?

It seems completely on topic to ask that question.
The OP is SPECIFICALLY "Quran" and "Wife Beating" not Religions [& texts] and Wife Beating nor 'Religions and Oppression of women rights'



So you have some motive to single out one shitty religion over another when they both do the same thing? Why is that?
You see...a pimp's love is very different from that of a square.
Dating a stripper is like eating a noisy bag of chips in church. Everyone looks at you in disgust, but deep down they want some too.

What exactly is logic? -Magnus Anderson

Support the innocence project on AmazonSmile instead of Turd's African savior biker dude.
http://www.innocenceproject.org/
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Re: Discussion: Quran and Wife Beating

Postby Prismatic567 » Tue Sep 20, 2016 6:20 am

Mr Reasonable wrote:
Prismatic567 wrote:
Mr Reasonable wrote:How is it off topic? You're talking about how a religious text relates to the oppression of women right?

So doesn't it say someplace in the bible that women should obey their husbands?

It seems completely on topic to ask that question.
The OP is SPECIFICALLY "Quran" and "Wife Beating" not Religions [& texts] and Wife Beating nor 'Religions and Oppression of women rights'


So you have some motive to single out one shitty religion over another when they both do the same thing? Why is that?
There is no specific reason for me to single one over other shitty religions. All their sh:ts must be addressed.
However, note it is an intellectual quality, competence and protocol that one confine and discuss on the specific topic on hand. Whatever the purpose is secondary.

If we were to discuss wife-beating in all religions plus oppression of woman rights, the thread will be all over and messed up.

Note it is also a normal requirement of any forum to expect posters to stick to topic and that is what I am trying to comply. This is a common protocol and I am very surprised you want to question it. I understand after a while most threads go off topic, but while I am aware, I would suggest we stick to topic. However if you want to go off topic, go ahead but I am not following in this case.
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Re: Discussion: Quran and Wife Beating

Postby Mr Reasonable » Tue Sep 20, 2016 6:34 am

I wasn't questioning the common protocol of staying on topic. I was questioning whether this was an instance of going off topic.

Comprehension dude. Try it sometime.
You see...a pimp's love is very different from that of a square.
Dating a stripper is like eating a noisy bag of chips in church. Everyone looks at you in disgust, but deep down they want some too.

What exactly is logic? -Magnus Anderson

Support the innocence project on AmazonSmile instead of Turd's African savior biker dude.
http://www.innocenceproject.org/
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