Dalai Lama: There Are No Muslim Terrorists

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Dalai Lama: There Are No Muslim Terrorists

Postby Prismatic567 » Wed Sep 21, 2016 8:04 am

I have high respect for the current Dalai Lama's knowledge on Buddhism, but this,
"Dalai Lama: There Are No Muslim Terrorists" is based on ignorance.

For the Dalai Lama, using religion to justify violence isn’t religious at all.

During a visit to the European Parliament last Thursday, the Tibetan Buddhist spiritual leader pointed out that since all religions preach peace, calling someone a “Muslim terrorist” or a “Buddhist terrorist” is simply an oxymoron.

“Buddhist terrorist. Muslim terrorist. That wording is wrong,” the 14th Dalai Lama said during a meeting with the parliament’s Committee on Foreign Affairs in Strasbourg, France.
“Any person who wants to indulge in violence is no longer a genuine Buddhist or genuine Muslim, because it is a Muslim teaching that once you are involved in bloodshed, actually you are no longer a genuine practitioner of Islam.”

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/dal ... 1a6e09d2cb


In this case the Dalai Lama must be influenced by the cherry-picked out of context verses thrown around by Muslim apologists, 'there is no compulsion in religion,' 'if kill one, then kill all', etc.

To give such a statement on Islam, a famous public figure should rely on sources who has thoroughly undertood [not necessary agree with] the central message and total ethos of the Quran.

The point is there are no Buddhism-influenced-terrorists but there are Islam-influenced-terrorists.

There are tons of no-holds-barred evil laden verses in the Quran where Allah directly or indirectly condoned and influenced SOME evil prone Muslims to attack non-Muslims in general. If the Allah of Islam sanctioned directly or indirectly evils and violence upon non-Muslims then the acts of these 'SOME' Muslims are recognized as Islamic-influenced-terrorists. In this case the religion of Islam is PARTLY to be blamed.

On the other hand, there are no "leading"* evil laden verses in the main Buddhist Sutras to influence and motivate Buddhists who are natural evil prone to commit evils and violence. There will be Buddhists who are evil prone committing terrible evils and violence, e.g. in Mynamar, but it is not the Buddhist Sutras that inspired them, rather it is their own natural evil tendencies inherent in them that caused them to commit acts of evil.
* there are seeming rare evil laden elements in some Sutras which are like needles in a haystack and they are not "leading" statements that has influenced any Buddhists to rely on them to commit evil

The Dalai Lama statement above is an embarrassment to himself for making statements out of ignorance.
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Re: Dalai Lama: There Are No Muslim Terrorists

Postby Mr Reasonable » Wed Sep 21, 2016 8:28 am

I think they were asking his view, not yours. I think he meant that it's not an act of a religion to use religion to justify violence. I mean, you quoted that right there in your post.
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Re: Dalai Lama: There Are No Muslim Terrorists

Postby James S Saint » Wed Sep 21, 2016 12:45 pm

    A) Dalai Lama ignorant of religious affairs?
    B) Prismatic567 ignorant of religious affairs?
Hmmm .. :-k
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
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Re: Dalai Lama: There Are No Muslim Terrorists

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Wed Sep 21, 2016 4:39 pm

Prismatic567 wrote:I have high respect for the current Dalai Lama's knowledge on Buddhism, but this,
"Dalai Lama: There Are No Muslim Terrorists" is based on ignorance.

For the Dalai Lama, using religion to justify violence isn’t religious at all.

During a visit to the European Parliament last Thursday, the Tibetan Buddhist spiritual leader pointed out that since all religions preach peace, calling someone a “Muslim terrorist” or a “Buddhist terrorist” is simply an oxymoron.

“Buddhist terrorist. Muslim terrorist. That wording is wrong,” the 14th Dalai Lama said during a meeting with the parliament’s Committee on Foreign Affairs in Strasbourg, France.
“Any person who wants to indulge in violence is no longer a genuine Buddhist or genuine Muslim, because it is a Muslim teaching that once you are involved in bloodshed, actually you are no longer a genuine practitioner of Islam.”

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/dal ... 1a6e09d2cb


In this case the Dalai Lama must be influenced by the cherry-picked out of context verses thrown around by Muslim apologists, 'there is no compulsion in religion,' 'if kill one, then kill all', etc.

To give such a statement on Islam, a famous public figure should rely on sources who has thoroughly undertood [not necessary agree with] the central message and total ethos of the Quran.

The point is there are no Buddhism-influenced-terrorists but there are Islam-influenced-terrorists.

There are tons of no-holds-barred evil laden verses in the Quran where Allah directly or indirectly condoned and influenced SOME evil prone Muslims to attack non-Muslims in general. If the Allah of Islam sanctioned directly or indirectly evils and violence upon non-Muslims then the acts of these 'SOME' Muslims are recognized as Islamic-influenced-terrorists. In this case the religion of Islam is PARTLY to be blamed.

On the other hand, there are no "leading"* evil laden verses in the main Buddhist Sutras to influence and motivate Buddhists who are natural evil prone to commit evils and violence. There will be Buddhists who are evil prone committing terrible evils and violence, e.g. in Mynamar, but it is not the Buddhist Sutras that inspired them, rather it is their own natural evil tendencies inherent in them that caused them to commit acts of evil.
* there are seeming rare evil laden elements in some Sutras which are like needles in a haystack and they are not "leading" statements that has influenced any Buddhists to rely on them to commit evil

The Dalai Lama statement above is an embarrassment to himself for making statements out of ignorance.



K: actually, if you think about it, the Dalai Lama is right........
You can find a great deal of violence in the bible and
the Koran and the great Veda's of India... and yet each of those
religions have a tradition of peaceful actions within them...
It is the terrorists who have cherry picked religious
aspects in the name of the violence.......

I too can find violent precepts in the bible and then
cherry pick that to create violence in the bible's name.....
this is no different then the Muslims who do the same thing
in the name of allah......

Kropotkin
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Re: Dalai Lama: There Are No Muslim Terrorists

Postby Prismatic567 » Thu Sep 22, 2016 3:10 am

James S Saint wrote:
    A) Dalai Lama ignorant of religious affairs?
    B) Prismatic567 ignorant of religious affairs?
Hmmm .. :-k
The above points reflect intellectual deficiency and rely on rhetoric and deceptions.

The OP is very specific, the Dalai Lama is ignorant of the critical elements within Islam based on what is presented in the Quran. I never implied the "Dalai Lama ignorant of religious affairs" i.e. religious affairs in general.
I am a progressive human being, a World Citizen, NOT-a-theist and not religious.
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Re: Dalai Lama: There Are No Muslim Terrorists

Postby Prismatic567 » Thu Sep 22, 2016 3:38 am

Peter Kropotkin wrote:K: actually, if you think about it, the Dalai Lama is right........
You can find a great deal of violence in the bible and
the Koran and the great Veda's of India... and yet each of those
religions have a tradition of peaceful actions within them...
It is the terrorists who have cherry picked religious
aspects in the name of the violence.......

I too can find violent precepts in the bible and then
cherry pick that to create violence in the bible's name.....
this is no different then the Muslims who do the same thing
in the name of allah......

Kropotkin
Actually, if you think about it, your views above are too narrow and shallow.

One has to be specific with the Bible and Christians.
For a Christian, the New Testament overrides the Old Testament.
In the New Testament, there is an overriding absolute pacifist maxim of 'Thou Shall Not Kill' period! and other overriding maxims of 'Love your enemies,' 'give the other cheek' and the likes. These overriding maxims prevail ultimately over the Christian's life and moral.

There are some evil laden verses in the NT but they are overridden by the absolute pacifist maxims. Jesus as an exemplar never went to war nor commit a full range of evils and terrible violence.

This does not mean Christians cannot kill but if they do they better think 100 times there is room for justice and forgiveness in their acts to avoid eternal perdition in HELL.


On the other hand, there are NO overriding absolute pacifist maxims within the Quran.
Where the Quran stated 'Thou Shall Not Kill' it is always conditional and not absolute, i.e. 'Thou Shall Not Kill but can kill if this or that happens.'
Because the conditions are so vague, it open up holes for the evil prone to squeeze through to commit evils and violence.

The evil prone Muslims [SOME] will insist they can kill or wreck violence upon non-Muslims because Allah give permission in the Quran for them to kill IF upon certain conditions. This is why SOME Muslims had killed many non-Muslims even upon cartoons :o thus the basis there is so much other terrible evils and violence committed by evil prone Muslims on whatever they perceived as permitted by their Allah in the Quran.

The other problem is, no one on Earth can judge and decide whether the 'evil' acts by those Muslims are right or wrong because they are not Allah. So the evil prone Muslims will continue to commit acts [which they perceived as 'good' but we recognized as evil] without hesitations as a duty to please Allah and expediting their passage to Paradise.

Muhammad as an exemplar to all Muslims committed terrible wars, evils, and violence during the final stages of his religious preaching. Such examples influence and inspire SOME* Muslims to follow his examples as supported by the evil verses in the Quran.
    * A minority or SOME even if 10% of Muslims is very critical and significant. 10% of 1.5 billion is 150 million. :o As evident, one [lone wolf] evil Muslim is enough to cause so much havoc to humanity, so 150 million potentials is very frightening.

So note the difference in terms of evil between Islam [in part] and Christianity & other religion.

Islam is the only religion that has elements that are inherently EVIL which has no absolute overriding restraints.

As with solving issues we must always focus on what is critical and its ultimate root causes and not be an ostrich to them as what many Muslims apologists [Dalai Lama for example] are doing at present.
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Re: Dalai Lama: There Are No Muslim Terrorists

Postby Mr Reasonable » Thu Sep 22, 2016 6:33 am

Seems like we're splitting hairs here. I'm with Peter on this one.
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Re: Dalai Lama: There Are No Muslim Terrorists

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Thu Sep 22, 2016 6:27 pm

Leviticus 20:10

'If a man commits adultery with another man's wife--with the wife of his neighbor--both the adulterer and the adulteress are to be put to death."

Now a man might wear a bomber's vest and walk into a bar and based on
this verse, may blow up the bar because a bar is clearly a home for
adultery and needs to be put out of business to prevent adultery......
which the bible makes very clear in dozens of places, a sin.....

You can cherry pick the bible as well as any document ever made
and find ways to act in "gods name"

Kropotkin
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Re: Dalai Lama: There Are No Muslim Terrorists

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Thu Sep 22, 2016 6:37 pm

Prismatic567 wrote:
Peter Kropotkin wrote:K: actually, if you think about it, the Dalai Lama is right........
You can find a great deal of violence in the bible and
the Koran and the great Veda's of India... and yet each of those
religions have a tradition of peaceful actions within them...
It is the terrorists who have cherry picked religious
aspects in the name of the violence.......

I too can find violent precepts in the bible and then
cherry pick that to create violence in the bible's name.....
this is no different then the Muslims who do the same thing
in the name of allah......

Kropotkin
Actually, if you think about it, your views above are too narrow and shallow.

One has to be specific with the Bible and Christians.
For a Christian, the New Testament overrides the Old Testament.
In the New Testament, there is an overriding absolute pacifist maxim of 'Thou Shall Not Kill' period! and other overriding maxims of 'Love your enemies,' 'give the other cheek' and the likes. These overriding maxims prevail ultimately over the Christian's life and moral.

There are some evil laden verses in the NT but they are overridden by the absolute pacifist maxims. Jesus as an exemplar never went to war nor commit a full range of evils and terrible violence.

This does not mean Christians cannot kill but if they do they better think 100 times there is room for justice and forgiveness in their acts to avoid eternal perdition in HELL.


On the other hand, there are NO overriding absolute pacifist maxims within the Quran.
Where the Quran stated 'Thou Shall Not Kill' it is always conditional and not absolute, i.e. 'Thou Shall Not Kill but can kill if this or that happens.'
Because the conditions are so vague, it open up holes for the evil prone to squeeze through to commit evils and violence.

The evil prone Muslims [SOME] will insist they can kill or wreck violence upon non-Muslims because Allah give permission in the Quran for them to kill IF upon certain conditions. This is why SOME Muslims had killed many non-Muslims even upon cartoons :o thus the basis there is so much other terrible evils and violence committed by evil prone Muslims on whatever they perceived as permitted by their Allah in the Quran.

The other problem is, no one on Earth can judge and decide whether the 'evil' acts by those Muslims are right or wrong because they are not Allah. So the evil prone Muslims will continue to commit acts [which they perceived as 'good' but we recognized as evil] without hesitations as a duty to please Allah and expediting their passage to Paradise.

Muhammad as an exemplar to all Muslims committed terrible wars, evils, and violence during the final stages of his religious preaching. Such examples influence and inspire SOME* Muslims to follow his examples as supported by the evil verses in the Quran.
    * A minority or SOME even if 10% of Muslims is very critical and significant. 10% of 1.5 billion is 150 million. :o As evident, one [lone wolf] evil Muslim is enough to cause so much havoc to humanity, so 150 million potentials is very frightening.

So note the difference in terms of evil between Islam [in part] and Christianity & other religion.

Islam is the only religion that has elements that are inherently EVIL which has no absolute overriding restraints.

As with solving issues we must always focus on what is critical and its ultimate root causes and not be an ostrich to them as what many Muslims apologists [Dalai Lama for example] are doing at present.


Lifted from National geographic:

Osama bin Laden, who is widely assumed to be the force behind the September 11 hijackings in the United States, cites the Koran, Islam's most holy book, as the inspiration for terrorist attacks. But Muslim scholars around the world who are reviled by such actions explain that the Koran preaches peace.

"The Koran is saying to humans, this is the final guidance from your Creator, for the specific purpose of worshipping him and creating a civil society where you can live in peace with one another," says Muslim scholar Imam Sulayman S. Nyang of Howard University in Washington.


Muslims around the world rely on the Koran for guidance, says Nyang. Devout followers heed the call to prayer five times each day and recite passages from the holy book. Muslims believe that the Koran is God's unfiltered message—teaching them how to lead a good life and become a better, more moral person.

"The Koran is very specific with regard to the nature of human struggle, because in order for a human to be at peace with himself, they must control their baser instincts," says Nyang.

The quest to control base instincts such as greed, lust, and cruelty and to seek spiritual purity is known by Muslims as the "great jihad." Featured widely in the Koran, the "great jihad" is a person's most important internal struggle.

Nyang quotes Chapter 3, verse 172, of the Koran: "Of those who answered the call of Allah and the messenger, even after being wounded, those who do right and refrain from wrong have a great reward."

But also in the holy scripture is a reference to "lower jihad," a more earthly and physical—and controversial—struggle. "To those against whom war is made, permission is given [to fight] because they are wronged; and verily, God is most powerful for their aid," quotes Nyang.

This verse speaks of combat or war to be waged against one's oppressors—a struggle sanctioned by God.

But the Koran also states in Chapter 2, Verse 190: "Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for Allah loves not transgressors."

The essence of the verse, Nyang says, is to fight back "if you are attacked by your persecutors, but don't fight back indiscriminately. Follow the rules of engagement." According to mainstream Muslim clerics, those "rules of engagement"' are explicit: women, children, and innocent civilians are off limits.

K: the Koran is being cherry picked by people who know it word for word and
certain verses are taken out of context, that is cherry picking, to allow acts of violence
against "infidels"..... You seem dead set on implicating Islam instead of where you should
be against all religions because all religions can be cherry picked to allow
acts of violence against people.....

Kropotkin
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Re: Dalai Lama: There Are No Muslim Terrorists

Postby Prismatic567 » Fri Sep 23, 2016 3:13 am

Peter Kropotkin wrote:Leviticus 20:10

'If a man commits adultery with another man's wife--with the wife of his neighbor--both the adulterer and the adulteress are to be put to death."

Now a man might wear a bomber's vest and walk into a bar and based on
this verse, may blow up the bar because a bar is clearly a home for
adultery and needs to be put out of business to prevent adultery......
which the bible makes very clear in dozens of places, a sin.....

You can cherry pick the bible as well as any document ever made
and find ways to act in "gods name"

Kropotkin
First show me evidences as a comparative [see below] to the present situations, the numbers of Christians who have blown up a bar or committed other terrible evils and violence based on verses from the New Testaments or in the teachings of Jesus.

As a comparison, note Islam at its worst; [29,275]

Image

The point is, if any Christian were to kill by bombing a place of adultery, he would be rebuked and punished severely by God on Judgment Day, i.e.

    God to Sinful Christian: WTF! I told you in the New Testament to "love your enemies" not kill them! blah, blah, blah. You have committed a great sin. Now go to HELL!

Note I stated the NT's absolute pacifist maxim 'Love Your Enemies" overrides any "killings of others, even enemies .." verses in the Old Testament.

This overriding absolute pacifist maxim restraints any Christians from killing any one, Period!
If any Christian ever kill s/he will go to hell. This is why there will no such similar statistics [or even 1%] as above from the Christians.
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Re: Dalai Lama: There Are No Muslim Terrorists

Postby Mr Reasonable » Fri Sep 23, 2016 4:07 am

Dude christians have killed way more muslims than muslims have christians.
You see...a pimp's love is very different from that of a square.
Dating a stripper is like eating a noisy bag of chips in church. Everyone looks at you in disgust, but deep down they want some too.

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Re: Dalai Lama: There Are No Muslim Terrorists

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Fri Sep 23, 2016 4:15 am

Prismatic567 wrote:
Peter Kropotkin wrote:Leviticus 20:10

'If a man commits adultery with another man's wife--with the wife of his neighbor--both the adulterer and the adulteress are to be put to death."

Now a man might wear a bomber's vest and walk into a bar and based on
this verse, may blow up the bar because a bar is clearly a home for
adultery and needs to be put out of business to prevent adultery......
which the bible makes very clear in dozens of places, a sin.....

You can cherry pick the bible as well as any document ever made
and find ways to act in "gods name"

Kropotkin
First show me evidences as a comparative [see below] to the present situations, the numbers of Christians who have blown up a bar or committed other terrible evils and violence based on verses from the New Testaments or in the teachings of Jesus.

As a comparison, note Islam at its worst; [29,275]

Image

The point is, if any Christian were to kill by bombing a place of adultery, he would be rebuked and punished severely by God on Judgment Day, i.e.

    God to Sinful Christian: WTF! I told you in the New Testament to "love your enemies" not kill them! blah, blah, blah. You have committed a great sin. Now go to HELL!

Note I stated the NT's absolute pacifist maxim 'Love Your Enemies" overrides any "killings of others, even enemies .." verses in the Old Testament.

This overriding absolute pacifist maxim restraints any Christians from killing any one, Period!
If any Christian ever kill s/he will go to hell. This is why there will no such similar statistics [or even 1%] as above from the Christians.



K: bush Jr invaded Iraq and killed in the neighborhood of 500,000 people and bush Jr.
is a born again.... It doesn't matter to a Christian if they kill one or a billion because of
Christian theology....You can be redeem on your death bed if you ask for forgiveness....
God will forgive any and all sins if you ask for forgiveness..... that is in the bible
and millions upon millions believe this....ask for forgiveness and you will go to
heaven.... regardless of your crimes and your sins.....

Kropotkin
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Re: Dalai Lama: There Are No Muslim Terrorists

Postby Mr Reasonable » Fri Sep 23, 2016 4:18 am

I saw a meme that said, "if you don't sin, then jesus died for nothing".
You see...a pimp's love is very different from that of a square.
Dating a stripper is like eating a noisy bag of chips in church. Everyone looks at you in disgust, but deep down they want some too.

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Re: Dalai Lama: There Are No Muslim Terrorists

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Fri Sep 23, 2016 4:19 am

P: The point is, if any Christian were to kill by bombing a place of adultery, he would be rebuked and punished severely by God on Judgment Day, i.e.

    God to Sinful Christian: WTF! I told you in the New Testament to "love your enemies" not kill them! blah, blah, blah. You have committed a great sin. Now go to HELL!

Note I stated the NT's absolute pacifist maxim 'Love Your Enemies" overrides any "killings of others, even enemies .." verses in the Old Testament.

This overriding absolute pacifist maxim restraints any Christians from killing any one, Period!
If any Christian ever kill s/he will go to hell. This is why there will no such similar statistics [or even 1%] as above from the Christians.[/quote]


K: there is no such thing as an overriding absolute pacifist maxim preventing a
Christian from doing anything.... there is nothing anywhere in the bible
that says this.....show me in the bible......

Kropotkin
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Re: Dalai Lama: There Are No Muslim Terrorists

Postby Prismatic567 » Fri Sep 23, 2016 7:33 am

Peter Kropotkin wrote:
First show me evidences as a comparative [see below] to the present situations, the numbers of Christians who have blown up a bar or committed other terrible evils and violence based on verses from the New Testaments or in the teachings of Jesus.

As a comparison, note Islam at its worst; [29,275]

Image

The point is, if any Christian were to kill by bombing a place of adultery, he would be rebuked and punished severely by God on Judgment Day, i.e.

    God to Sinful Christian: WTF! I told you in the New Testament to "love your enemies" not kill them! blah, blah, blah. You have committed a great sin. Now go to HELL!

Note I stated the NT's absolute pacifist maxim 'Love Your Enemies" overrides any "killings of others, even enemies .." verses in the Old Testament.

This overriding absolute pacifist maxim restraints any Christians from killing any one, Period!
If any Christian ever kill s/he will go to hell. This is why there will no such similar statistics [or even 1%] as above from the Christians.


K: bush Jr invaded Iraq and killed in the neighborhood of 500,000 people and bush Jr.
is a born again.... It doesn't matter to a Christian if they kill one or a billion because of
Christian theology....You can be redeem on your death bed if you ask for forgiveness....
God will forgive any and all sins if you ask for forgiveness..... that is in the bible
and millions upon millions believe this....ask for forgiveness and you will go to
heaven.... regardless of your crimes and your sins.....

Kropotkin
First, any one can be a Christian without much pre-qualification on their psychological state.
Thus the worst murderer [serial killer] can simply repent his past and submit to be a Christian.
Thus this inherent murder [now a Christian] could be suddenly hit with a strong impulse to murder and went on a rampage to kill.
In this case, we cannot blame Christianity because there are no verses in the NT [dictate what is Christianity] that sanction any Christian to kill any one and even his/her enemies.
This serial killer killed because he was a serial killer who could not control his impulse.

Bush Jr. did invoke God before the USA invaded Iraq but any Christian can invoke any thing, however it cannot be related to Christianity unless there are verses in the NT and teachings of Jesus to support one to go to war against non-Christians.
Your example of Bush Jr. is not effective because he was not representing Christianity but representing rather the United States of America with its own Constitution and citizens of various religions and other beliefs.
In addition, the Foreign Minister of Iraq was a Christian and there were many soldiers in Saddam's army who were Christians.

I don't believe Bush Jr. will be punished severely because he was merely doing his duty legal within the Constitution. It is just like God will not punish an executioner severely because that was his official duty.
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Re: Dalai Lama: There Are No Muslim Terrorists

Postby Prismatic567 » Fri Sep 23, 2016 7:37 am

Peter Kropotkin wrote:K: there is no such thing as an overriding absolute pacifist maxim preventing a
Christian from doing anything.... there is nothing anywhere in the bible
that says this.....show me in the bible......

Kropotkin
Note Matthew 5:43-48,

    43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor[a] and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
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Re: Dalai Lama: There Are No Muslim Terrorists

Postby Prismatic567 » Fri Sep 23, 2016 8:32 am

Peter Kropotkin wrote:Lifted from National geographic:

Osama bin Laden, who is widely assumed to be the force behind the September 11 hijackings in the United States, cites the Koran, Islam's most holy book, as the inspiration for terrorist attacks. But Muslim scholars around the world who are reviled by such actions explain that the Koran preaches peace.

"The Koran is saying to humans, this is the final guidance from your Creator, for the specific purpose of worshipping him and creating a civil society where you can live in peace with one another," says Muslim scholar Imam Sulayman S. Nyang of Howard University in Washington.


Muslims around the world rely on the Koran for guidance, says Nyang. Devout followers heed the call to prayer five times each day and recite passages from the holy book. Muslims believe that the Koran is God's unfiltered message—teaching them how to lead a good life and become a better, more moral person.

"The Koran is very specific with regard to the nature of human struggle, because in order for a human to be at peace with himself, they must control their baser instincts," says Nyang.

The quest to control base instincts such as greed, lust, and cruelty and to seek spiritual purity is known by Muslims as the "great jihad." Featured widely in the Koran, the "great jihad" is a person's most important internal struggle.

Nyang quotes Chapter 3, verse 172, of the Koran: "Of those who answered the call of Allah and the messenger, even after being wounded, those who do right and refrain from wrong have a great reward."

But also in the holy scripture is a reference to "lower jihad," a more earthly and physical—and controversial—struggle. "To those against whom war is made, permission is given [to fight] because they are wronged; and verily, God is most powerful for their aid," quotes Nyang.

This verse speaks of combat or war to be waged against one's oppressors—a struggle sanctioned by God.

But the Koran also states in Chapter 2, Verse 190: "Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for Allah loves not transgressors."

The essence of the verse, Nyang says, is to fight back "if you are attacked by your persecutors, but don't fight back indiscriminately. Follow the rules of engagement." According to mainstream Muslim clerics, those "rules of engagement"' are explicit: women, children, and innocent civilians are off limits.

K: the Koran is being cherry picked by people who know it word for word and
certain verses are taken out of context, that is cherry picking, to allow acts of violence
against "infidels"..... You seem dead set on implicating Islam instead of where you should
be against all religions because all religions can be cherry picked to allow
acts of violence against people.....

Kropotkin
You will not be able to give an effective counter if you yourself have not read the Quran and be familiar with the Ahadith and Sira of Islam.

In the above case, it is Nyang [author of the article] who was cherry picking.

Note a commentary on this verse 3:172;
This verse alludes to those devoted servants of Islam who willingly accompanied the Holy Prophet in his pursuit of the Quraish at that critical juncture.

After the Battle of Uhd, the Quraish marched back towards Makkah. When they had covered a good deal of distance from Al-Madinah, they realized that they had not utilised the golden opportunity of crushing the power of Muhammad (Allah's peace be upon him) and they began to regret: what a folly have we committed by losing that excellent chance! Accordingly, they halted and held a council of war. Though they were in favour of returning to Al-Madinah and making a sudden attack, yet they could not muster up courage and continued their march towards Makkah. At the same time, the Holy Prophet surmised an attack from the enemy; so he assembled the Muslims on the next day after the battle of Uhd and said, "Let us go in pursuit of the Quraish." Although that was a very critical situation, yet the believers and the devoted servants of Allah responded to the call and willingly marched with the Holy Prophet to Hamra-ul-Asad, a place at a distance of 8 miles from Al-Madinah.


This verse refer to the midst of violence by Muhammad and his men and 'what was right' was the followers obedience of Muhammad to continue fighting and more violence.

The above article quoted;

    "To those against whom war is made, permission is given [to fight] because they are wronged; and verily, God is most powerful for their aid,"

This is verse 22:39.
The problem with this verse and in many situation, the conditions for permission to fight or self-defense are vaguely stated and comprised of dualistic truths in the Quran, like the DUCK-RABBIT image which contain two truths within one image.

Image

For example, in the drawing of cartoons of Prophet Muhammad, those evil prone Muslims who killed many non-Muslims interpreted they [Muslims] and Islam has been WRONGED, so based on verse 22:39 they are given permission to fight and in the process kill non-Muslims.

Now WHO ON EARTH can judge and decide whether these killers are right or wrong in their interpretation of 22:39?
Answer is no one because there are no central authority, if some claim to be, they cannot because only Allah can have the final say.
Since Allah will never appear on Earth to judge evil prone Muslims till they die and appear in Allah's court, these evil prone Muslims will continue to fight and kill non-Muslims based on their own interpretations of what is 'wronged' with sincere belief they are doing their duty as a good Muslim destined toward Paradise [with hope of 72 virgins].
So in verse 22:39 Allah sanction [gives permission] and condone potential evils and violence.

The majority of Muslims will not exploit the ambiquity and dualistic truths within such verses as 22:39 but a minority, say 20% of evil prone Muslims who are born with evil tendency will natural response with evil, i.e. fight and kill non-Muslims who has wronged Islam.
But note, even though it is the minority, 20% or even 10% of 1.5 billion is a very critical quantum of 300 million or 150 millions potential evil prone Muslims :o :o respectively.

These minority 150-300 million evil prone Muslims are extra sensitive due to their existential desperations and the slightest event can be interpreted as wronged or a threat to Islam and Muslims, and they naturally respond with terrible evils and violence in retaliations. This is happening in reality and it is so evident around the world.

Note verse 22:39 with its open ended 'wronged' is merely one of tons of evil loaded verses. I have done an analysis and noted there are 3,400 verses out of the total of 6,236 verses [55% :o ] that can combined in various ways to trigger sensitive and evil prone Muslims to justify them committing evils and violence on non-Muslims and even other Muslims [deemed as hypocrites, apostate, traitors, etc.] with encouragement and permission from Allah of the Quran.

There are loads of real evil loaded verses that influence and inspire SOME Muslims who are evil prone to commit terrible evils and violence. It is only natural and instinctual for any Muslims as a believer to be imperatively blind to such evil elements [like not seeing a 500 pound gorilla in the room].

So there are Islam-Inspired-Terrorist and the Quran [in part] is to be blamed.
As mentioned and explained, the evil prone Muslim should NOT take the major blame because they were unfortunately born with evil tendencies or had been brainwashed by others using this evil ideology which is partly from Islam.

If you want to counter me effectively, I suggest you read the Quran objectively and thoroughly first.
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Re: Dalai Lama: There Are No Muslim Terrorists

Postby Kriswest » Fri Sep 23, 2016 11:08 pm

20% - 150 to 300 million prone to violence... Hmm well damn that means diddly. Wanna know why that means diddly?
I will be bitchy, cranky, sweet, happy, kind, pain in the ass all at random times from now on. I am embracing my mentalpause until further notice. Viva lack of total control!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is not a test,,, this is my life right now. Have a good day and please buckle up for safety reasons,, All those in high chairs, go in the back of the room.
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Re: Dalai Lama: There Are No Muslim Terrorists

Postby Prismatic567 » Sat Sep 24, 2016 8:31 am

Kriswest wrote:20% - 150 to 300 million prone to violence... Hmm well damn that means diddly. Wanna know why that means diddly?
Note I stated 20% of Muslims [as with All humans] are prone to evils.
Violence is one type of 'evil.'
I normally state 20% of all humans are prone to evil but I have not committed to state 20% of all human are prone to violence. I don't have statistics on this, but it is a fact violence in various degrees is prevalent among humans as glaringly evident.

Here is my justifications for 20% [conservatively] of all humans are evil prone.

1. Evil is represented by a range from 1/100-low to 99/100-high.
2. Lying is a type of evil, albeit from the lower range.
3. 60% of People Can't Go 10 Minutes Without Lying
4. Therefore 60% of All people are prone to commit evil.
5. To assert 20% of all people are prone to commit a range of evil acts [including murder, cheating, corruption, stealing, torture, rape, other major and minor crimes, etc.] is thus conservative and safe bet to its truth.

The very evil acts [the psychopaths, mass murderer, genocides, mass rapes, mass torture, mass oppressions, etc.] may only be committed by say 1% or less. This is a serious and significant quantum because merely one lone wolf is enough to generate terrible damage and horror to humanity. 1% of is 70 million of the world's population and is 15 million of the most evil Muslims.

In reality, terrible evils are often led by a small group of charismatic evil leaders leading a group of direct followers who in turn influence the majority. One example is Hitler and his gang influencing the German people during WW II. It is the same with other dictators and evil leaders.

Thus to have 15 million [if 1%] or 150 million [if 10%] of evil prone Muslim, being influenced and inspired by the evil loaded verses in the Quran as sanctioned by Allah is a very frightening potential. This is not even a speculation but it is already a reality, one example; [29,285] was [29,275] a day ago! :o

Image

Note this [rough] counter is merely one type of evil act that involved death of victims. There are loads of other types of evils committed by evil prone Muslims around the world but there are no readily available statistics for me to link.
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Re: Dalai Lama: There Are No Muslim Terrorists

Postby Kriswest » Sat Sep 24, 2016 10:36 am

Still, diddly, got any numbers for the opposite Muslims? Probably not. Probably would just not work well. The millions of Muslims that are helping societies just are not dramatic. The doctors , the educators, the charity workers, etc. they count for nothing even though they far out number the evil. Oh and many are women that have degrees even PHDs.
How many Christians or Jewish are in prison? Or mass murderers? What is so different? Oh wait , yea you mentioned an interpretation of an ambiguous text as the provocation.
Does not mean diddly unless you are willing to severely remove all texts and media.
I will be bitchy, cranky, sweet, happy, kind, pain in the ass all at random times from now on. I am embracing my mentalpause until further notice. Viva lack of total control!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is not a test,,, this is my life right now. Have a good day and please buckle up for safety reasons,, All those in high chairs, go in the back of the room.
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Re: Dalai Lama: There Are No Muslim Terrorists

Postby Prismatic567 » Sun Sep 25, 2016 5:00 am

Kriswest wrote:Still, diddly, got any numbers for the opposite Muslims? Probably not. Probably would just not work well. The millions of Muslims that are helping societies just are not dramatic. The doctors , the educators, the charity workers, etc. they count for nothing even though they far out number the evil. Oh and many are women that have degrees even PHDs.
How many Christians or Jewish are in prison? Or mass murderers? What is so different? Oh wait , yea you mentioned an interpretation of an ambiguous text as the provocation.
Does not mean diddly unless you are willing to severely remove all texts and media.
You are going off topic and conflating [fallacious] unnecessary.

It is of utmost criticalness that ALL evils must be addressed and resolved, i.e. those related to Muslims and non-Muslims, secular and non-secular, etc.

This OP is about "Muslim Terrorist" so by protocol we have to stick to topic, i.e. specifically on Muslims and Islam only, not deflecting to non-Muslims evils and issues. Btw, I am not blaming the evil prone Muslims as the primary cause to the terrible evils and violence committed in the name of Islam.

There is no deliberate and total blindness to Muslims who are doing good but it it off topic to bring them in to deflect and dilute the issue of the OP.

Let say, some one notice a sudden appearance of a small dark mole on their skin and ask your advice. Are you going to change the subject by saying the person should ignore such an insignificant mole because the rest of the person skin is flawless? The health wisdom these days is one should check with the medical experts to ensure what mole that appear suddenly or not malignant.

The typical of using other examples to deflect and dilute the topic on hand is bad logical thinking, i.e. they come within the red-herring, tu-quoque fallacy. This is a very common defense mechanism, e.g. to deflect from this topic, many will invoke, what about Hitler - a Christian, what about Mao, Stalin, etc. etc.

Know thyself.
One interesting self-knowledge would perhaps try to understand why one has that tendency to deflect from the main topic in this case or in others.
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Re: Dalai Lama: There Are No Muslim Terrorists

Postby Kriswest » Mon Sep 26, 2016 11:06 am

You brought up numbers, you brought up the contraversy. Am I only to agree in order to stay on topic? I cannot point out opposition? If so what the hell is there to discuss?
I will be bitchy, cranky, sweet, happy, kind, pain in the ass all at random times from now on. I am embracing my mentalpause until further notice. Viva lack of total control!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is not a test,,, this is my life right now. Have a good day and please buckle up for safety reasons,, All those in high chairs, go in the back of the room.
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Re: Dalai Lama: There Are No Muslim Terrorists

Postby Prismatic567 » Tue Sep 27, 2016 8:47 am

Kriswest wrote:You brought up numbers, you brought up the contraversy. Am I only to agree in order to stay on topic? I cannot point out opposition? If so what the hell is there to discuss?
To stay on topic your either agree or disagree. I thought that is very obvious. You can point out opposition if you think my premises are wrong, but fallacious counters are not credible and a waste of time.
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Re: Dalai Lama: There Are No Muslim Terrorists

Postby Kriswest » Tue Sep 27, 2016 10:09 am

Point out the fallacious and prove they are.
I will be bitchy, cranky, sweet, happy, kind, pain in the ass all at random times from now on. I am embracing my mentalpause until further notice. Viva lack of total control!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is not a test,,, this is my life right now. Have a good day and please buckle up for safety reasons,, All those in high chairs, go in the back of the room.
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Re: Dalai Lama: There Are No Muslim Terrorists

Postby Prismatic567 » Wed Sep 28, 2016 7:28 am

Kriswest wrote:Point out the fallacious and prove they are.
I had pointed them out earlier,

The typical of using other examples to deflect and dilute the topic on hand is bad logical thinking, i.e. they come within the red-herring, tu-quoque [and its subsets] fallacy. This is a very common defense mechanism, e.g. to deflect from this topic, many will invoke, what about Hitler - a Christian, what about Mao, Stalin, etc. etc.


Note this OP and my original intention is specifically about "Muslim" Terrorists not "religious" terrorists.
If you want to discuss terrorists related to other religion, here is an OP for it.
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=191323
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