Dalai Lama: There Are No Muslim Terrorists

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Re: Dalai Lama: There Are No Muslim Terrorists

Postby Kriswest » Wed Sep 28, 2016 12:19 pm

So no comparing, no social numbers other than your terrorists, no mentioning the other Muslims or how they translate, we must only agree with you in order to stay on topic.
I will be bitchy, cranky, sweet, happy, kind, pain in the ass all at random times from now on. I am embracing my mentalpause until further notice. Viva lack of total control!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is not a test,,, this is my life right now. Have a good day and please buckle up for safety reasons,, All those in high chairs, go in the back of the room.
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Re: Dalai Lama: There Are No Muslim Terrorists

Postby Prismatic567 » Thu Sep 29, 2016 6:18 am

Kriswest wrote:So no comparing, no social numbers other than your terrorists, no mentioning the other Muslims or how they translate, we must only agree with you in order to stay on topic.
This thread is about "Muslim Terrorists" and their evil acts. Note it is not agreeing to my expectations but it is a normal forum protocol of staying to topic as much as possible.

The Dalai Lama argued there is no such thing as "Muslim Terrorists" and I argued otherwise and provided my justifications. What is your views on the above?

If you want to discuss other religious terrorists, comparisons, numbers or whatever is related to the topic, you can do it here which I started for that purpose.
Religious Terrorists
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=191323
I am a progressive human being, a World Citizen, NOT-a-theist and not religious.
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Re: Dalai Lama: There Are No Muslim Terrorists

Postby James S Saint » Thu Sep 29, 2016 9:53 am

The Dalai Lama merely pointed out that "Islamic Terrorist" is an oxymoron, much like "Islamic Christian" or "Islamic Judaist". If you are truly one, you can't also be the other. They are not subgroups.

There are terrorists who happen to be Islamic and thus use Islamic excuses. There are terrorists that happen to be Secular and thus use Secular excuses. There are terrorists who happen to be Judaist and thus use Judaist excuses.
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
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Re: Dalai Lama: There Are No Muslim Terrorists

Postby Kriswest » Fri Sep 30, 2016 12:20 am

Prismatic567 wrote:I have high respect for the current Dalai Lama's knowledge on Buddhism, but this,
"Dalai Lama: There Are No Muslim Terrorists" is based on ignorance.

For the Dalai Lama, using religion to justify violence isn’t religious at all.

During a visit to the European Parliament last Thursday, the Tibetan Buddhist spiritual leader pointed out that since all religions preach peace, calling someone a “Muslim terrorist” or a “Buddhist terrorist” is simply an oxymoron.

“Buddhist terrorist. Muslim terrorist. That wording is wrong,” the 14th Dalai Lama said during a meeting with the parliament’s Committee on Foreign Affairs in Strasbourg, France.
“Any person who wants to indulge in violence is no longer a genuine Buddhist or genuine Muslim, because it is a Muslim teaching that once you are involved in bloodshed, actually you are no longer a genuine practitioner of Islam.”

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/dal ... 1a6e09d2cb


In this case the Dalai Lama must be influenced by the cherry-picked out of context verses thrown around by Muslim apologists, 'there is no compulsion in religion,' 'if kill one, then kill all', etc.

To give such a statement on Islam, a famous public figure should rely on sources who has thoroughly undertood [not necessary agree with] the central message and total ethos of the Quran.

The point is there are no Buddhism-influenced-terrorists but there are Islam-influenced-terrorists.

There are tons of no-holds-barred evil laden verses in the Quran where Allah directly or indirectly condoned and influenced SOME evil prone Muslims to attack non-Muslims in general. If the Allah of Islam sanctioned directly or indirectly evils and violence upon non-Muslims then the acts of these 'SOME' Muslims are recognized as Islamic-influenced-terrorists. In this case the religion of Islam is PARTLY to be blamed.

On the other hand, there are no "leading"* evil laden verses in the main Buddhist Sutras to influence and motivate Buddhists who are natural evil prone to commit evils and violence. There will be Buddhists who are evil prone committing terrible evils and violence, e.g. in Mynamar, but it is not the Buddhist Sutras that inspired them, rather it is their own natural evil tendencies inherent in them that caused them to commit acts of evil.
* there are seeming rare evil laden elements in some Sutras which are like needles in a haystack and they are not "leading" statements that has influenced any Buddhists to rely on them to commit evil

The Dalai Lama statement above is an embarrassment to himself for making statements out of ignorance.

Cherry picked statements ,, well If you are allowed to pick out violent ones then others are allowed to find the peaceful ones and live by those. The majority choose the peace. The very small minority live by the violent. The majority disowns the minority. The minority still claims they are part of the majority. The majority says no. Well if the majority says no then it is no. If your family disowns you, you may keep the name, have the genetics but, you are not family.
If the majority tells the Dalai Lama that the terrorist groups are not Muslim then terrorists are not part of the family. You cherry pick on 10 or 20 percent when 80 to 90 percent want peace. You bitch about how horrible the text is and you are not even raised in a home that follows. Words are interpretive, especially in religious texts. You and a few interpret hate, the majority does not. I think that says a lot about the individual.

And James is also correct.
I will be bitchy, cranky, sweet, happy, kind, pain in the ass all at random times from now on. I am embracing my mentalpause until further notice. Viva lack of total control!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is not a test,,, this is my life right now. Have a good day and please buckle up for safety reasons,, All those in high chairs, go in the back of the room.
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Re: Dalai Lama: There Are No Muslim Terrorists

Postby Prismatic567 » Fri Sep 30, 2016 7:17 am

James S Saint wrote:The Dalai Lama merely pointed out that "Islamic Terrorist" is an oxymoron, much like "Islamic Christian" or "Islamic Judaist". If you are truly one, you can't also be the other. They are not subgroups.
The Dalai Lama stated "Islamic Terrorist" is an oxymoron because he assumed ALL religions are supposed to be peaceful.

Dalai Lama's logic;
Since Islam is a religion, it must be a peaceful religion.
Terrorists are not peaceful people.
Therefore Islamic Terrorist is an oxymoron.

That all religions are peaceful is a bad assumptions and based on hearsay and ignorance.

To make any assertion about Islam, a person with intellectual integrity must at least understand [not necessary agree] 80% or more of what the religion of Islam is about.

Based in the reasonable effort I have put it, I dare say I understand up to 80% 'what Islam is' and my conclusion based on what I know is, Islam [in part, not wholly] is not a peaceful religion. Islam [in part] is inherently evil and malignant.
The inherent evil and malignant elements within Islam influenced and inspired SOME evil prone Muslim from a pool of 20% [conservatively] of evil prone Muslims to commit terrible evils and violence around the world as evident in this near-approximate counter [29,327].

Image

Since my views differ from the Dalai Lama's conclusion 'Islam is peaceful, Islamist Terrorist-oxymoron, I infer the Dalai Lama do not have sufficient knowledge 'what is Islam.' Besides the Dalai Lama has never claimed he is very familiar with Islam per-se.

There are terrorists who happen to be Islamic and thus use Islamic excuses. There are terrorists that happen to be Secular and thus use Secular excuses. There are terrorists who happen to be Judaist and thus use Judaist excuses.
I agree with the above points.

Terrorists will use all sorts of excuses to justify their evil acts. However the question is whether their excuses are justified or not?
I know there any no good nor justifiable excuses for terrorists who are Christians, Buddhists, Taoist and the likes to use their respective holy texts for their terrorist acts.

On the other hand, there are lots of verses within the Quran, Ahadiths and Sira of Islam that influenced, compelled and inspire for SOME [not all] Muslims to commit terrible evils and violence as permitted by their Allah.
These Muslims believed they are acting rightly and as a duty to please Allah. The consequences of their sincere & pious acts as good Muslims however create terrors and we they are labelled a Muslim Terrorist or Islam-Inspired-Terrorists.

Based on my 80% understanding of Islam, the existence of Muslim Terrorists is true and the Dalai Lama's claim the term Muslim-Terrorists is an oxymoron is false based on ignorance.

What is outstanding in my above claim is I have not presented evidence from Islam that it is inherently evil. I have no problem producing the necessary evidence where necessary. Here is one verses amongst the thousands that influences Muslims to cast terrror upon non-believers;

    8:12. When thy Lord inspired the angels, (saying:) I [Allah] am with you.
    So make those who believe [Muslims] stand firm.
    I will throw fear [terror] into the hearts of those [infidels] who disbelieve.
    Then smite [fa-iḍ'ribū: Daad-Ra-Ba] the necks and smite [wa-iḍ'ribū] of them each finger.


I would suggest those who want to counter my views read up the Quran at least 10 times and whatever is necessary to understand 'what is Islam'.

My point [again];
Based on my 80% understanding of Islam, the existence of Muslim Terrorists is true and the Dalai Lama's claim the term Muslim-Terrorists is an oxymoron is false based on ignorance.
I am a progressive human being, a World Citizen, NOT-a-theist and not religious.
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Re: Dalai Lama: There Are No Muslim Terrorists

Postby Prismatic567 » Fri Sep 30, 2016 7:31 am

Kriswest wrote:Cherry picked statements ,, well If you are allowed to pick out violent ones then others are allowed to find the peaceful ones and live by those. The majority choose the peace. The very small minority live by the violent. The majority disowns the minority. The minority still claims they are part of the majority. The majority says no. Well if the majority says no then it is no. If your family disowns you, you may keep the name, have the genetics but, you are not family.
If the majority tells the Dalai Lama that the terrorist groups are not Muslim then terrorists are not part of the family. You cherry pick on 10 or 20 percent when 80 to 90 percent want peace. You bitch about how horrible the text is and you are not even raised in a home that follows. Words are interpretive, especially in religious texts. You and a few interpret hate, the majority does not. I think that says a lot about the individual.

And James is also correct.
You are off point in the above and don't spout too much personal attacks with 'bitch' and 'about the individual.' What I have presented is based on objective evidence and sound arguments.

Where did you get the idea the majority is absolute right, i.e. the majority of Muslims represent the truth.
Note the flat-Earth theory and many other theories of the majority which were proven wrong over the past.
What is to be true must have reasonable objective evidences.

I suggest you read the Quran at least 10 times, preferably at least 50 times and other relevant materials to get a good grasp of what Islam is and represent.
I faced the same challenge when discussing Islam with Muslims, so I read up the Quran [by now at least 50 times] and they even dismissed my views if I don't read it in Arabic, so I learn up Arabic as well. I agree basic Quranic Arabic is very necessary but there is no need to read the whole Quran in Arabic since we can now have access to 50++ English translations of the Quran easily.
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Re: Dalai Lama: There Are No Muslim Terrorists

Postby Kriswest » Sat Oct 01, 2016 10:36 am

The word bitch is not an attack on you. It is an emphasis word about your seeming obsession on Muslims and your view of them.

Where did I even say the majority is absolutely right /truth. ? I said nothing about their beliefs.

And yet again I am declared off point.
The Majority of a faith can declare a minority within wrong and not of their group. Once this is publicly done, there is separation.
You can pick at their text , find the horrible parts, declare the horrible parts the majority of the text, you can call the minority group by the title of the majority, you can declare your knowledge of the entire text to be superior but, it does not change the simple fact that the majority of Muslims are peaceful and good people. Those that follow violence in the name of Muslim religion are on their own and not Muslim.
You want to be right, you have an apparent issue with Muslims and yea I know you will declare all this off topic.
I will be bitchy, cranky, sweet, happy, kind, pain in the ass all at random times from now on. I am embracing my mentalpause until further notice. Viva lack of total control!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is not a test,,, this is my life right now. Have a good day and please buckle up for safety reasons,, All those in high chairs, go in the back of the room.
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Re: Dalai Lama: There Are No Muslim Terrorists

Postby James S Saint » Sat Oct 01, 2016 3:20 pm

It is a common mistake to presume that others are equally as dumb as oneself. But the Dalai Lama is not an idiot and probably had more education from experts by the age of 15 than most ever obtain throughout their entire lives.
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
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Re: Dalai Lama: There Are No Muslim Terrorists

Postby Prismatic567 » Sun Oct 02, 2016 7:06 am

James S Saint wrote:It is a common mistake to presume that others are equally as dumb as oneself. But the Dalai Lama is not an idiot and probably had more education from experts by the age of 15 than most ever obtain throughout their entire lives.
I am aware of the very extensive knowledge that the Dalai Lama has. I have more than 10 books written by the Dalai Lama and have read many articles on him and his knowledge.

However from what the Dalai Lama has expressed of 'Muslim Terrorist' I believe he is ignorant of a very thorough knowledge of 'what is Islam'.

If you think otherwise show me proofs the Dalai Lama has read and researched deeply into the religion of Islam like what he had done for Tibetan Buddhism and Scientific knowledge.
I am a progressive human being, a World Citizen, NOT-a-theist and not religious.
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Re: Dalai Lama: There Are No Muslim Terrorists

Postby Prismatic567 » Sun Oct 02, 2016 7:19 am

Kriswest wrote:The word bitch is not an attack on you. It is an emphasis word about your seeming obsession on Muslims and your view of them.

Where did I even say the majority is absolutely right /truth. ? I said nothing about their beliefs.

And yet again I am declared off point.
The Majority of a faith can declare a minority within wrong and not of their group. Once this is publicly done, there is separation.
You can pick at their text , find the horrible parts, declare the horrible parts the majority of the text, you can call the minority group by the title of the majority, you can declare your knowledge of the entire text to be superior but, it does not change the simple fact that the majority of Muslims are peaceful and good people. Those that follow violence in the name of Muslim religion are on their own and not Muslim.
You want to be right, you have an apparent issue with Muslims and yea I know you will declare all this off topic.
How do you define 'who is a Muslim.'

Note my definition of who is a Muslim in here;
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=191346

I have always agree the majority of Muslims are peaceful and good people. So there is no issue on this point. But majority do not imply truths or that Islam is fully peaceful. Therefore it is possible for the minority to be true Muslim and this warrant an in-depth research into this subject which I had done.

The basic point is where there are evil and violence in the world, as concerned citizen of humanity we must give attention and contribute in whatever ways to resolve the problem.
In resolving the problem we must break up and identify specific parts of the problem for resolution.

One part of the major problem of evil I think I am competent to discuss is related to Islam.
I have traced the root causes of this problem to;
1. SOME Muslims who are evil prone
2. Evil elements within the Quran and other Islamic texts.

In a way, I am hoping someone will give evidence to prove I am wrong which I meant I will gain new knowledge. It is a lose-win situation.
To topic, if you think I am wrong, prove to me there are no evil prone Muslims and there are no evil elements in the Quran and other Islamic texts, thus no Muslim terrorists.

So far you have not given any proofs to counter my points as above.
All you have done is merely complaining on a general basis.

I believe my theory, 'Islam-in-part is inherently evil' is true based on the proofs and arguments I have proposed [until proven otherwise]. Now if you simply brushed off such a theory without proofs then you are indirectly complicit to the future evil and violence committed by evil prone Muslims on humanity.
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Re: Dalai Lama: There Are No Muslim Terrorists

Postby Kriswest » Tue Oct 04, 2016 10:39 am

All religions are in part inherently evil. Some are more than others. And it depends upon what a person thinks is evil.

The Muslims/Islamics that are evil will commit evil and expose themselves quite blatantly in this case. They are quite proud and are not exactly hiding. They openly recruit the disgruntled humans from all cultures. Thoroughly knowing their beliefs is not necessary. Knowing they are a group that claims a title to the majority is not necessary. The way to change their desire to kill others is through infiltration and make killing nonprofitable .
Has it even occurred to you that world agencies want these groups alive ? It has to me. The world governments can easily go and remove these cells. They know where they are, who they are, how many there are. Governments have access to tech toys that are amazing. In one day all terrorists could be wiped out along with potential ones. Yet this does not occur. This is not conspiracy theory , it is reality. Money, power and control are the whys. Eventually they will have to eliminate the terrorists to prevent the inevitable rebellion. They are right now (quite likely) preparing another situation to make people dependent upon them.
I will be bitchy, cranky, sweet, happy, kind, pain in the ass all at random times from now on. I am embracing my mentalpause until further notice. Viva lack of total control!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is not a test,,, this is my life right now. Have a good day and please buckle up for safety reasons,, All those in high chairs, go in the back of the room.
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Re: Dalai Lama: There Are No Muslim Terrorists

Postby Ultimate Philosophy 1001 » Tue Oct 04, 2016 6:55 pm

me wrote:Christianity isn't the same as Muslimism.

Christ=leader of Christianity.

Mohammed=leader of Muslimism.

Christ=pacifist who says turn thy cheeks.
Mohammed=promises 17 virgins for blowing up the non-believers.


The Crusaders and Catholics were Christian Terrorists but their actions didn't make any sense because they contradicted Christ. Muslim terrorists however do not contradict Mohammed.
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Re: Dalai Lama: There Are No Muslim Terrorists

Postby Prismatic567 » Wed Oct 05, 2016 6:37 am

Kriswest wrote:All religions are in part inherently evil. Some are more than others. And it depends upon what a person thinks is evil.
Yes in one sense. However to be more efficient we need to dig deeper into the root causes. This is why I analyze the evils from ALL religions into;

1. Religion associated evils
2. Religion Inspired evils.

Without a detailed analysis one will be on a wild goose chase or fighting fires all the time instead of extinguishing the source of the fire.

Religion associated evils [1] are those evil acts committed by believers on their own compulsions and has nothing to do with the tenets and doctrine of the specific religion. Example evil acts by SOME Buddhists in Myanmar has nothing to do with any verses from the main Sutras of Buddhism.

Religion Inspired evils [2] are are those evil acts committed by believers when influenced and inspired directly by the tenets and doctrine of the specific religion. Example, the majority of evil acts committed by SOME evil prone Muslims at present and in the past were directly traceable to the verses in the Quran as a direct or indirect command from Allah to kill or commit evil onto non-Muslims and even other Muslims.

Evil is a very loose term. However we can easily arrive at a consensus on 'what is evil' and the acts that are termed evil. For example, it is obvious genocide, mass rapes, deliberate murders, and many others common acts of evils can be agreed by all normal human beings are morally evil. I have done sufficient research to establish what is generally termed evil within a range from low to high degree of evil.

The Muslims/Islamics that are evil will commit evil and expose themselves quite blatantly in this case. They are quite proud and are not exactly hiding. They openly recruit the disgruntled humans from all cultures. Thoroughly knowing their beliefs is not necessary. Knowing they are a group that claims a title to the majority is not necessary. The way to change their desire to kill others is through infiltration and make killing nonprofitable .

Has it even occurred to you that world agencies want these groups alive ? It has to me. The world governments can easily go and remove these cells. They know where they are, who they are, how many there are. Governments have access to tech toys that are amazing. In one day all terrorists could be wiped out along with potential ones. Yet this does not occur. This is not conspiracy theory , it is reality. Money, power and control are the whys. Eventually they will have to eliminate the terrorists to prevent the inevitable rebellion. They are right now (quite likely) preparing another situation to make people dependent upon them.
Your thinking here is not sufficient nor efficient to the point.

Muslims as human being do commit evils that are not linked to the Quran, e.g. a crime of passion, petty thefts, etc. thus has nothing to do with Islam. This is not the point here.

The point here is the Muslims who are evil prone will commit evil when influenced by the evil elements in the Quran [& other Islamic] texts. The blame here is thus primarily on Islam [partly] itself. I would not focus the blame on the evil prone Muslims who were unfortunately born with an active evil propensity, tendency and proclivity.

Your focus on terrorism is too narrow. Evil prone Muslims where influenced and inspired by evil elements in the Quran [Islam] commit a full range of evils beside the more notable terrorist and political related evils. Evil prone Muslims as influenced by Islam [in part] commit evils relating to sphere of social, cultural, economics, legal, arts, etc. besides the political.
I understand many political authorities [including Islamic ones] exploited Muslims for their political interest for example FBI and the Talibans and even at the present. But the root problem is because such a potential for exploitation exists in the Quran. So the ultimate source of the problem is in the Quran [& other texts] thus Islam itself.

My main point is regardless of the varieties of evil from all aspects but has any relation with Islam and Muslim, the ultimate root cause is Islam itself because Allah [rather some human{s}] incorporated evil elements in the Quran while it was compiled during the 7th century.

Your dogmatic insistence to fight fires rather than the source of the fire is a weakness itself and indirectly complicit to the terrible evils that will continue to be committed by SOME evil prone Muslims who are influenced by the evil elements in the Quran [& other texts] and Islam.

Therefore we should focus on Islam [partly] as the source of all Islamic-Inspired evils and violence and not running about fighting fires instead of the source of the fire.
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Re: Dalai Lama: There Are No Muslim Terrorists

Postby Kriswest » Wed Oct 05, 2016 10:36 am

A tool that inspired people to kill is held to be evil or just a tool misused by an evil person?
A gun can be used to save lives from evil or be used to commit evil. A knife, an axe, etc.
The Quran is a tool. It is up to the person that holds it wether to use it for good or evil. The tool is not the problem. The problem is within the minds of those that use it. The leaders of this group are adept at conning the disgruntled recruits. How?
Also , the leaders are not out there with bombs are they? They are safe and sound enjoying life.
You and the governments are either blindly or deliberately missing that crucial piece. You are picking at a tool that is not the problem. The young recruits are missing the very simple fact that their leaders never put their lives on the line for the supposed reward of the afterlife.
Why do the governments not address this as a tool for ending or at least hindering recruitment? The text can be used to stop this. The proper group working together can use words to bring peace just as words are being used to create war. It is not the text, it is the manipulation of the text.
I will be bitchy, cranky, sweet, happy, kind, pain in the ass all at random times from now on. I am embracing my mentalpause until further notice. Viva lack of total control!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is not a test,,, this is my life right now. Have a good day and please buckle up for safety reasons,, All those in high chairs, go in the back of the room.
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Re: Dalai Lama: There Are No Muslim Terrorists

Postby Ultimate Philosophy 1001 » Wed Oct 05, 2016 3:17 pm

Thing is, a gun doesn't have a sticker on it saying "Murder people with this". It often comes with a booklet saying "Do not murder people with this". Quran is the exact opposite,it tells you to murder people.

It is not a manipulation of text. It blatantly tells you to murder people in the Quran. In fact the only manipulation of text is to argue that the Quran does not tell you to murder people.
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Re: Dalai Lama: There Are No Muslim Terrorists

Postby Ultimate Philosophy 1001 » Wed Oct 05, 2016 3:19 pm

You say that it is a tool, but tools are meant for building and repairing things.

The Quran is pretty much the exact opposite of a tool, since it un-builds, it is against Muslismism to build arts music and many other things.
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Re: Dalai Lama: There Are No Muslim Terrorists

Postby Prismatic567 » Thu Oct 06, 2016 4:48 am

Kriswest wrote:A tool that inspired people to kill is held to be evil or just a tool misused by an evil person?
A gun can be used to save lives from evil or be used to commit evil. A knife, an axe, etc.
The Quran is a tool. It is up to the person that holds it wether to use it for good or evil. The tool is not the problem. The problem is within the minds of those that use it. The leaders of this group are adept at conning the disgruntled recruits. How?
Also , the leaders are not out there with bombs are they? They are safe and sound enjoying life.
You and the governments are either blindly or deliberately missing that crucial piece. You are picking at a tool that is not the problem. The young recruits are missing the very simple fact that their leaders never put their lives on the line for the supposed reward of the afterlife.
Why do the governments not address this as a tool for ending or at least hindering recruitment? The text can be used to stop this. The proper group working together can use words to bring peace just as words are being used to create war. It is not the text, it is the manipulation of the text.
What you have missed is the Quran is a tool for human[s] who are like a person who is drowning in the middle of a deep sea and driven by instincts to grab at any thing to save his life.

The Quran and Islam is a tool presented to human[s] like a double-edge blade. The Quran was not authored by a God but by human[s] and likely by humans who are inclined to evils and violence and that is why they included evil elements in the Quran.

My point is you have failed to understand human nature and psychology, that desperate humans when their life is hanging by the skin of their teeth or a drowning man, will do whatever it takes to save their life in priority over any thing else including killing others and committing other evils.

Now the Quran promised human[s] they will be saved from eternal death if they submit to Allah and accept the terms and conditions in the Quran.

The terms and conditions in the Quran that will save Muslims from eternal death [the most fearful thing] unfortunately included loads of evil elements that included killing non-Muslims under very vague "IF" conditions.

The Quran also promised Muslims who die as martyrs [killing non-Muslims] will be rewarded with an expeditious path to Paradise surrounded by the grandest sensual delights that include eternal virgins.

Based on my understanding of human nature, I understand appx 80% of Muslims are born with good tendencies and thus will not be influenced nor are desperate to that extend to take Allah's offer of being martyrs and killing infidels [deemed as a thread to Islam].

However there are a natural existence of appx. 20% of Muslims [as with ALL humans] who will be blinded and influenced by the evil elements and offer to do "evil"* by Allah so that they can clean their sins immediately and given a clean passport to Paradise.
* what is termed "evil" from our perspective is perceived as "good" acts and a duty as a Muslim to please Allah.
It is this "good" act that drive SOME evil prone Muslims to commit terrible evils and violence on non-Muslims.
The evidence is so glaring, i.e. one example is this [29,389] below;

Image

There is a wide range of other types of evil besides the above terrible evils and violence.

Note in contrast, wiser religions like Buddhism, Taoism, Jainism, and the likes understood human nature and the vulnerability of the evil prone believers, and that is the reason these religions do not include leading evil elements in their main holy texts.

Islam and the Quran as authored by evil prone human[s] included loads of evil elements in their holy texts and they end up influencing and inspiring the unavoidable existence of evil prone Muslims to commit terrible evils and violence.

Therefore the rationale of promoting of good moral for the future of humanity is to get rid of the evil elements in the Quran* to prevent very desperate evil prone believers from being influenced by evil elements.
* or get rid of the whole Quran and Islam where possible.

Your argument seemingly is to keep* the evil elements in the Quran. Such a move will continue to enable the evil elements in the Quran to infect more evil prone Muslims [not curable at present] to commit more evils and violence in the present and the future.
* otherwise you are ignorant there are evil elements in the Quran, in that case you should read the Quran to check my claims.

Why do the governments not address this as a tool for ending or at least hindering recruitment? The text can be used to stop this. The proper group working together can use words to bring peace just as words are being used to create war. It is not the text, it is the manipulation of the text.

The critical words related to the issues are too ambiguous to arrive at any precise conclusions. Again I suggest you read the Quran and Ahadiths to understand this issue.

As I had argued, the Quran do not allow any Muslim or human on Earth to decide whether the evil prone fundamentalists Muslims are right or wrong. As stated in the Quran, Allah is the final arbiter of all acts of any human being on Judgment Day.
So in the meantime the evil prone fundamentalist Muslims will continue to commit terrible evils and violence which from their perspective are 'good' acts as a duty of a Muslim to please Allah.
I am a progressive human being, a World Citizen, NOT-a-theist and not religious.
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Re: Dalai Lama: There Are No Muslim Terrorists

Postby James S Saint » Fri Oct 07, 2016 12:25 am

Kriswest wrote:Why do the governments not address this as a tool for ending or at least hindering recruitment? The text can be used to stop this. The proper group working together can use words to bring peace just as words are being used to create war. It is not the text, it is the manipulation of the text.

The "governments" consider creating war to be a major portion of their purpose.
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
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Re: Dalai Lama: There Are No Muslim Terrorists

Postby Kriswest » Fri Oct 07, 2016 12:56 am

James S Saint wrote:
Kriswest wrote:Why do the governments not address this as a tool for ending or at least hindering recruitment? The text can be used to stop this. The proper group working together can use words to bring peace just as words are being used to create war. It is not the text, it is the manipulation of the text.

The "governments" consider creating war to be a major portion of their purpose.

To a point yes. But it is a minor very minor point. It is more about territory and strutting.
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Re: Dalai Lama: There Are No Muslim Terrorists

Postby Kriswest » Fri Oct 07, 2016 11:11 am

Prismatic,
No religious text is authored by anything other than humans. To believe otherwise is naive.
To remove any text from the Quran would be encouraging more disgruntled angry humans. You would be editing a sacred text. There are the now peaceful that would be outraged at the insulting attack. To remove the Quran entirely is even worse. Humans are dependent upon their religion of choice, it is their security blanket. Outsiders messing with that blanket has caused atrocities beyond what these terrorists have done or will do.
Again , infiltration, governments cooperating legitimately and cooperative understanding with the peaceful are the solutions. A very simple effective way could be pointing out the cowardice of the nonsuicidal leaders. A simple put up or shut up will remove possible recruits and quite likely any nonbrainwashed new recruits.
I will be bitchy, cranky, sweet, happy, kind, pain in the ass all at random times from now on. I am embracing my mentalpause until further notice. Viva lack of total control!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is not a test,,, this is my life right now. Have a good day and please buckle up for safety reasons,, All those in high chairs, go in the back of the room.
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Re: Dalai Lama: There Are No Muslim Terrorists

Postby Is_Yde_opN » Fri Oct 07, 2016 4:18 pm

So is the Dalai Lama saying that those who facilitate terrorism are to be excommunicated from their religion?
Or that people should not think about terrorists who terrorize in the name of a religion as being members of said religion?
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Re: Dalai Lama: There Are No Muslim Terrorists

Postby Kriswest » Sat Oct 08, 2016 12:23 am

You can't figure out the truth?
I will be bitchy, cranky, sweet, happy, kind, pain in the ass all at random times from now on. I am embracing my mentalpause until further notice. Viva lack of total control!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is not a test,,, this is my life right now. Have a good day and please buckle up for safety reasons,, All those in high chairs, go in the back of the room.
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Re: Dalai Lama: There Are No Muslim Terrorists

Postby A Shieldmaiden » Sat Oct 08, 2016 1:42 am

I have high respect for the current Dalai Lama's knowledge on Buddhism, but this,

"Dalai Lama: There Are No Muslim Terrorists" is based on ignorance.


The Dalai Lama should live in the real world instead of attending cocktail parties.

The man is full of it.

Any man who kisses the Pope's hand has to be.

and the Pope...... kisses the Koran

BTW Buddhism is not recognised as a religion.
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Re: Dalai Lama: There Are No Muslim Terrorists

Postby Prismatic567 » Sat Oct 08, 2016 4:57 am

Kriswest wrote:Prismatic,
No religious text is authored by anything other than humans. To believe otherwise is naive.
As a non-theist that is my point but note I stated this earlier,

    Islam and the Quran as authored by evil prone human[s] included loads of evil elements in their holy texts and they end up influencing and inspiring the unavoidable existence of evil prone Muslims to commit terrible evils and violence.

To convince theistic Muslims there is no God would be another issue. While not addressing this point we need to convince all Muslims and non-Muslims [especially apologists like you] there are indeed loads of evil elements that influence SOME Muslims to commit terrible evils and violence. We want them to understand the direct causes of the effects.

To remove any text from the Quran would be encouraging more disgruntled angry humans. You would be editing a sacred text. There are the now peaceful that would be outraged at the insulting attack.
The point is at present the majority of Muslims [good and evil prone] do not accept there are evil laden elements in the Quran that are directly responsible in influencing SOME Muslims to commit evils and violence.

What is worst the majority of non-Muslims and their leaders are so ignorant of Islam and the Quran [& other texts] and they don't have the intellectual integrity to read and understand what is in the Quran. As such, they blindly insist Islam and the Quran are fully good and peaceful when the fact is, Islam [Quran] in part is inherently evil and malignant.

The majority, i.e. the peaceful Muslims denounce those Muslims [the fundamentalists] who commit 'evil' acts as not-Muslims while those fundamentalists claim the peaceful Muslims are not true Muslims and some are hypocrites. This is why the jihadists are killing Muslims perceived as hypocrites and apostates.

When we prove and identify the factual direct link from cause to effects, i.e. there are evil elements in the Quran [& other texts] that directly cause [influence] SOME Muslims to commit terrible evils and violence, any average sensible rational Muslims and non-Muslims will accept that objective fact which then can be proven easily.

When the majority of non-Muslims and Muslims understand and are aware Islam [& Quran] in part [not whole] is factually evil and malignant, their consciousness and awareness of such a fact would change from their current stance to finding answers and solutions to such malignant evils. To insist Islam and Quran is wholly peaceful to the contrary would be stupidity then.

To reveal and accept the fact that Islam [Quran & other texts] is partly evil and malignant would be unpleasant for Muslims but it will not result in outraged and being insulting. This is like being outraged and insulting to the fact the Earth is not flat and the Earth orbit the Sun.

Note it is very normal to correct or remove anything that is potentially malignant away from humans, e.g. food or medicines that are found to contain poisonous or malignant elements are removed from shelves and not made available for normal human use. For example asbestos is a very cheap and useful building material but it is banned in many countries because it has malignant element in it.

So the very obvious logical solution to the partly Islam and Quran problem is to remove the malignant parts, i.e. the evil laden verses. The removal [editing] has to be the solution, and humanity will have to find ways to lessen the psychological impact to enable the truth to prevail.

To remove the Quran entirely is even worse. Humans are dependent upon their religion of choice, it is their security blanket. Outsiders messing with that blanket has caused atrocities beyond what these terrorists have done or will do.
The other alternative approach is to get rid of Islam [together with other religions subsequently]. At present with the existence of malignant evil elements, Islam is a threat to humanity now and in the future. Sooner of later religion [as defined] will run out of its shelf-life for humanity. The priority is to get rid of Islam and replace it with other benign religion in the immediate future. In the longer run humanity will replace all religions with fool-proof spiritual approaches to deal with the unavoidable existential DOOM.

Again , infiltration, governments cooperating legitimately and cooperative understanding with the peaceful are the solutions. A very simple effective way could be pointing out the cowardice of the nonsuicidal leaders. A simple put up or shut up will remove possible recruits and quite likely any nonbrainwashed new recruits.
Again you missed out many other important factors and variables.

The current fact is a percentile of % [appx 20%] of human are unfortunately born with evil tendencies and the hardcores/recalcitrants of them cannot be educated, trained or rehabilitated easily.
Therefore as long as
    1. 20% of evil prone Muslims with
    2. loads of evil elements in the Quran
exists, evil and violence will manifest in ALL sorts of ways and sources of human activities.

Your "simple" solutions addressing leaders of jihadists, and others will not work unless you get rid of the ultimate root causes. Note for example the leader of the Taliban, Bin Laden was killed but then many sub-groups of fundamentalists, jihadists and other fundamentalist emerged. Thus you may convinced some leaders to be peaceful but those evil prone who disagree will start their own groups as long as 1 and 2 above exist.
The main malignant cause is the ideology not the leader which can be replaced by any one infected with that evil ideology.

What you cannot ignore is the critical quantum of a potential of approximate 300 millions :o evil prone Muslims of various degrees. Only a few leaders from these 300 millions is necessary to influence the rest of the flock.

In addition, do not focus merely to the notable and evident evils and violence of terrorism. There is a full range of evils and violence committed by the evil prone within humanity, e.g. education [boko haram, Malala, etc.] politics, cultural, arts, misogyny, oppression of non-Muslims human rights, economics, social, cultural and other matters.

Your "simple-minded" solutions that ignore and not directly addressing factor 1 and 2 above will not work.
I am a progressive human being, a World Citizen, NOT-a-theist and not religious.
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Re: Dalai Lama: There Are No Muslim Terrorists

Postby Prismatic567 » Sat Oct 08, 2016 5:19 am

Is_Yde_opN wrote:So is the Dalai Lama saying that those who facilitate terrorism are to be excommunicated from their religion?
Or that people should not think about terrorists who terrorize in the name of a religion as being members of said religion?
No talk of excommunication.

The effect of the Dalai Lama's view in this case results in the deflection of the fact that Muslims terrorists has a direct link to Islam itself.

The Dalai Lama made the wrong assumption
1. that ALL religions are peaceful and not evil,
2. thus Islam as a religion must be peaceful and no evil,
3. therefore there are no evil Muslim [Islamic] terrorists.

As I had argued in this thread, Islam [in part] is inherently evil and malignant thus influence SOME naturally born evil prone Muslims to commit very evident terrible evils and violence.
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