The Phenomenon of Man ... Wo-man

It’s the 0.1 % that may do us all in. :laughing:

That’s my point … the man of science extrapolates on “what he knows” far beyond “what he knows”

The man of religion/spirituality extrapolates on “what he knows” far beyond “what he knows”

Spiritualist: Spirit is substance … though invisible.

Scientist: Provide me with a flask filled with spirit … I will examine it through the prism of known science and share my
results.

Spiritualist: Spirit can not be harnessed … therefore I can not provide you with a flask full of spirit.

Scientist: Awe! … then the conclusion is simple … spirit does not exist. Furthermore, since God is spirit … God does not exist.

Place your bets folks. :laughing:

I’ll bet all of humanity on God for a gazillion in Spanish Galleon gold coins. Hey, I’m part Jew. :evilfun:

Wendy … there is some thang bout ya that folks gotta luv … you manage to inject a delightful sense of humour into an immensely serious issue. kudos to you! =D>

In a previous post I wrote … the 'god" of science is malleable"

I probably should explain my meaning …

True Science is not malleable … man’s science is malleable … ergo … as man increases his knowledge of True Science he revises his story.

Paraphrasing … True Science is “Immutable”.

Some religious/spiritual people argue that God is “Immutable”.

Using the science of mathematics … if A=B and B=C … than A=C

Et Voila … the fusion of True Science and God.

Now if only we could get the man of philosophy to join the same party … something exciting could really begin to happen. :smiley:

I’ll check it out. 1867 eh?

What you describe is the limitation of human knowledge. As one discovers more, one gets closer to “what actually is”. But that’s true of all human knowledge … history, philosophy, economics, etc.

Then they are wrong. Knowledge of God is just as limited as scientific knowledge. Therefore, God is “malleable” in exactly the same sense as “the ‘god’ of science”. Sure, there is a “True God” out there, but humans don’t know that True God.

If spirit is substance, then where is this substance?

If spirit is substance, then why can’t it be “grabbed” or harnessed?

Energy is not substance but one can see it in the motion of physical objects. Can one see the workings of spirit in any consistent way?

Good morning Phyllo

Agreed … yet wouldn’t it be nice if Science, Philosophy and Religion could converge … all else is subordinate to these three (insert here).

Agreed … yet wouldn’t it be nice to “know”. Sure it may take another million years … than again a tsunami change in human consciousness could happen any day now … as a result of one of those gravitational waves. :slight_smile:

Within the ILP audience … at least most of the ILP audience … the notion of “spirit as substance” is gobbly gook.

Yet within the larger community … across time and space … there are countless individuals … in all cultures and geographies … that testify … by their life or by their words … that spirit is substance … spirit is omnipresent … Spirit is God.

I see a benefit from having a diversity of approaches so I don’t think that convergence is necessarily good.

One could say " wouldn’t it be nice if got rid frying, sauteing, barbecuing and just boiled all food". :evilfun:

Well no, it wouldn’t be nice.

Then you have to clarify what you and those other people mean by the word ‘substance’.

This is a dictionary defn :

en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/substance

I can’t know and I will never know … that’s just the way it is. No point struggling against it.

I don’t know … with any degree of certainty … that I don’t know.

I don’t struggle against it … I struggle with it … I have long struggled with the decision to share my thoughts/intuitions … or not to share.

Obviously I chose to share.

Let me summarize:

  1. We live in unprecedented circumstances … I wrote the following comments in Carleas’s OP “Culture Flow”
  1. Rational and logical thought + intuition suggests … to me at least … these unique circumstances have a singular purpose.

  2. Hope inspires me to believe this “purpose” is intended to help humanity and the planet.

As I mentioned in a previous post … “Place your bets folks”

a) Build an arc? :laughing:

b) Eat … drink … f— … and be merry? :smiley:

c) Get your ‘house’ in order? :frowning:

d) (insert here)

e) (insert here)

I don’t ‘see’ convergence of Science Philosophy and Religion leading to a homogenous, dull, bland lifestyle/culture.

Awesome edifices are built on a single foundation … eg Taj Mahal

With Science Religion and Philosophy interwoven on a single foundation the potential outcomes are unbelievably awesome.

the substance of spirit is undefinable … it’s very essence defies definition … to “name” something … to “define” something … is to put it in a box … to put it in chains … obviously “Spirit” will not allow such an outcome.

That explains why science, philosophy and religion won’t converge. Science and philosophy can’t work with undefinable concepts. Science can’t work with unmeasurable concepts.

Yet :laughing:

Seems I have used the word “converge” too narrowly … Teilhard words are much more eloquent …

Science only investigates observable phenomena while religion makes claims which can
not be subject to potential falsification and that is why they are mutually incompatible

OK … is quantum science currently struggling with observable phenomena?

OK … though your comment does not seem to render religious claims absolutely false … only that religious claims cannot be subject to potential falsification.

You mean that he agrees with what I wrote? :astonished: :smiley:

Perhaps more accurately … you agree with what he wrote. :smiley:

Frankly … I’m astonished at how much ‘stuff’ has been posted recently that echoes Teilhard’s thoughts/opinions … detailed in his book “Philosophy of Man” … in both the philosophy forum and this forum.

I’m not aware of anyone in ILP that has actually read his book … I’ve only read the intro … preface … and a few pages.