The military IS where uneducated, poor, minorities end up

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The military IS where uneducated, poor, minorities end up

Postby km2_33 » Sun Nov 05, 2006 4:53 am

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What’s the big deal? I just don’t get why EVERYONE is denying reality.

The military is loaded with the uneducated, the poor and minorities (except Jews -- who are more intelligent, in general and/or go to Israel to join the military).

If you drop the political correct bullshit the republiCUNTS are trying to force down your throats (and the democrRATS are backing up), then you have to acknowledge what everyone already knows. This is like the Emperor's New Clothes -- everyone can see it but nobody dares to mention it :roll:

STOP THE BULLSHIT POLITICALLY CORRECT CRAP -- THE MILITARY IS A DRAW CARD FOR MINORITIES, THE POOR AND THE UNEDUCATED -- DEAL WITH IT



(PS I bet half the people in the photo wouldn't have had an idea where Iraq was before going there. The military NEEDS dumb people because if they think, they don't believe the propaganda)

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Postby Phaedrus » Sun Nov 05, 2006 6:55 am

The US military does have some "poor people," to be sure, but their educational level isn't particularly low. True, to meet enlistment goals the Army did have to lower their entrance standards a bit, but it's still reasonably high. And obviously the bulk of the officers are college educated.
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Postby Uccisore » Sun Nov 05, 2006 6:57 am

The military is loaded with the uneducated, the poor and minorities (except Jews -- who are more intelligent, in general and/or go to Israel to join the military).


To be fair, the demographic of anti-war protestors seems to be about like this as well.
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Postby Phaedrus » Sun Nov 05, 2006 6:58 am

Yeah, the anti-war rhetoric is getting more knee-jerk and irrational with each passing hour, it seems. On one level I can understand why, but getting hysterical won't help anything.
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Postby Uccisore » Sun Nov 05, 2006 7:01 am

Sure. If someone had strong anti-war sentiments two years ago, I can't imagine how they must feel by now. I'd be getting pretty irrational by now as well, I suppose.
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Postby Impenitent » Sun Nov 05, 2006 7:31 am

http://www.heritage.org/Research/Nation ... a06-09.cfm

...Education

Educational achievement is the characteristic most commonly cited as evidence of lower military standards driven by the Iraq War. While some mea­sures, such as the higher percentage of Category IV recruits in the Army, are cited, other measures, such as the higher percentage of Category I recruits, are ignored. In general, the higher quality of recruits compared to equivalent civilian popula­tion has held steady during the war years.

The previous study noted the significant differ­ence between the national recruit high school grad­uation rate of 98 percent and the national youth graduation rate of 75 percent. This strong distinc­tion continues among the 2004 and 2005 recruits when compared to the national educational attain­ment levels reported by the Census 2004 American Community Survey (ACS).[4]

Given the nature of the military rank structure, most enlisted recruits do not have a college edu­cation or degree. Members of the armed forces with higher education are more often commis­sioned officers (lieutenant and above). In 2004, 92.1 percent of active-duty officer accessions held baccalaureate degrees or higher.[5] From 2000 to 2005, between 10 percent and 17 percent of active-duty officer accessions held advanced degrees, and between 35 percent and 45 percent of the active-duty officer corps held advanced degrees.[6] This indicates that officers continued their educa­tion during the course of their mili­tary service.

Many enlisted personnel are drawn to the benefits offered by the armed forces that allow them to obtain funding for college. In recent years, incentives to join the military have increased, providing more of the enlisted recruits with additional resources to finance their education. Although only about 7 percent of recruits for 2003–2005 entered the military with some college experi­ence, over 11 percent of the 2004 active component enlisted force had some college experience.[7]

Additionally, in the most recent edition of Population Representation in the Military Services, the Department of Defense reported that the mean reading level of 2004 recruits is a full grade level higher than that of the comparable youth population.[8] Fewer than 2 percent of wartime recruits have no high school creden­tials. Table 2 shows the breakdown for the educational attainment of the war­time recruit cohorts. The national high school graduation rate taken from the Census 2004 ACS is 79.8 percent.

In previous years, the Department of Defense adhered to a policy of accepting no more than 2 percent of recruits scoring in Category IV on the Armed Forces Qualifying Test (AFQT), the stan­dardized test administered to all recruits to deter­mine eligibility. Category IV indicates that the individual scored between the 21st and 30th percen­tiles. Congress accepted a revised policy of up to 4 percent to allow for flexibility in the current recruit­ing market. Despite three of the four branches accepting limited numbers of Category IV recruits, in November 2005, the media criticized the Army for accepting a high number of recruits from Cate­gory IV.[9]

In fiscal year 2005, 4.4 percent of Army recruits scored in Category IV, and the Army is optimistic that it will remain within policy guidelines with its recruits for fiscal year 2006. For the first three quarters of fiscal year 2006 (October 2005–June 2006), 3.4 percent of Army recruits scored in Cat­egory IV. While the Army has been criticized for its AFQT score policy, only 1.2 percent of Marine Corps recruits for the first three quarters of fiscal year 2006 scored in Category IV, and the Air Force and the Navy have no such recruits for this period. In 2005, only 2.2 percent of the recruits from all four branches in fiscal year 2005 scored in Cate­gory IV. By comparison, because the Army does not accept any recruits below the 21st percentile, the nature of AFQT scoring indicates that 20 percent of the comparable civilian population would score below Category IV.

The policy regarding high school graduation status (or the equivalent) remains stringent across all four branches of the military. At least 90 per­cent of recruits must be high school diploma graduates (which does not include equivalency). Recruit accessions from the first three quarters of fiscal year 2006 are above this guideline in all branches except the Army. As of May 2006, 83.1 percent of accepted Army recruits met this requirement, which is still a greater percentage than the national graduation rate including equiv­alency. Additionally, for fiscal year 2006, the Army is in step with the other three branches in meeting the overall DOD guideline that more than 60 per­cent of enlistees should score above the 50th per­centile on the AFQT.

The military defines a “high quality” recruit as one who has scored above the 50th percentile on the AFQT and has a high school diploma. The percentage of high-quality recruits has increased from 57 percent in 2001 to 64 percent in 2005 (67 percent in 2004),[10] indicating not only that the military is accepting intelligent and well-educated recruits, but also that the representa­tion of these recruits has increased strongly since the 9/11 terrorist attacks.

While the military has changed its policies to allow flexibility in recruiting standards, it has cer­tainly not abandoned them. The current guidelines allow each force the flexibility to accept recruits who satisfy only one criterion: either a high school diploma or an above-average score on the AFQT, which is a standard equal to or exceeding the gen­eral youth population.

http://www.heritage.org/Research/Nation ... wm1244.cfm

The Facts About Today’s Soldiers[5]

The average reading level of new soldiers is roughly a full grade level higher than their civilian peers’.

Enlistees’ high school graduation rate was 97 percent in 2003, 2004, and 2005. The civilian graduation rate is seventeen percentage points lower.

The wealthiest 40 percent of neighborhoods in America are the home of 45.6 percent of 2005 enlistees. For every two U.S. recruits from the poorest neighborhoods, three come from the richest.

There is no statistical evidence to support the claim that minorities are being targeted or exploited for military service. The 100 zip codes with the highest proportions of African-Americans were actually under-represented among military enlistees in 2005.

Every U.S. military recruit of the last 33 years has been a volunteer.
Antiwar criticism has morphed into a patronizing attitude toward GIs, by way of questioning the quality of the men and women who volunteer to serve. Perhaps it is easier for the antiwar Left to believe that soldiers are unintelligent than to believe that they are taking risks willingly because they actually believe in the war’s purpose.

The good news is that many Democrats were quick to condemn Kerry’s statement and call for an apology. But righting this wrong requires more than an apology for a one-time slip. At issue is a core belief that sorely needs to be corrected because it is intertwined with weighty policy issues.

The fundamental irony is that so many elites who are eager to cut and run from Iraq stand in clear contrast to the tens of thousands of young adults who are joining the fight, understand the stakes, and want to win.

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cogito ergo cogito
sum ergo sum...

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What's the difference between a liberal and Al Qaeda?
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Postby km2_33 » Sun Nov 05, 2006 11:34 am

You missed the point.

I (or Kerry) didn't say the dumbest people in the country join the military so your comparisons between military and non military educational levels is irrelevant

I (or Kerry) didn't say kids remain uneducated while IN the military so stats that take into account the educational levels of personnel AFTER they enter, are also irrelevant.

I repeat my politically incorrect assertion that the people who don’t do well in school often chose the military. There is nothing you can twist, turn, bend or stretch into meaning something else.

Rather than mocking Kerry’s for not being politically correct enough, I suggest you focus on the dozens of gaffs your president has made. Kerrry’s gaff may have hurt the delicate feelings of a few fragile soldiers but your president’s gaffs have resulted in the deaths of tens (possibly hundreds) of thousands.

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Postby Impenitent » Sun Nov 05, 2006 3:22 pm

km2_33 wrote:You missed the point.

I (or Kerry) didn't say the dumbest people in the country join the military so your comparisons between military and non military educational levels is irrelevant

he DID say "You know education. If you make the most of it, you study hard, you do your homework, and you make an effort to be smart, you can do well, and if you don't you get stuck in Iraq." try to cover for your propagandist liar, but in fact he did call the troops uneducated.

you DID say "What’s the big deal? I just don’t get why EVERYONE is denying reality.
The military is loaded with the uneducated, the poor and minorities (except Jews -- who are more intelligent, in general and/or go to Israel to join the military)." I proved you wrong. it is not loaded with any such thing.


I (or Kerry) didn't say kids remain uneducated while IN the military so stats that take into account the educational levels of personnel AFTER they enter, are also irrelevant.

I repeat my politically incorrect assertion that the people who don’t do well in school often chose the military. There is nothing you can twist, turn, bend or stretch into meaning something else.

The actual numbers from the military proves your assertions are incorrect. there is nothing you can twist, turn, bend, or stretch into your hate the us military view point. the us military has very specific education standards for admission. if you don't do well in school the military will not accept you as a member.

Rather than mocking Kerry’s for not being politically correct enough, I suggest you focus on the dozens of gaffs your president has made.

kerry has once again insulted the troops, but this is nothing new from kerry or the democRAT party in general.

Kerrry’s gaff may have hurt the delicate feelings of a few fragile soldiers but your president’s gaffs have resulted in the deaths of tens (possibly hundreds) of thousands.

.


bush has made no gaffs that resulted in tens of thousands of deaths. but keep reading pravda...

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cogito ergo cogito
sum ergo sum...

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What's the difference between a liberal and Al Qaeda?
Oh, you don't know either?

"False is the idea of utility that sacrifices a thousand real advantages for one imaginary or trifling inconvenience; that would take fire from men because it burns, and water because one may drown in it; that has no remedy for evils, except destruction. The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a nature. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes....Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man." (Thomas Jefferson)

"Stat rosa pristina nomine, nomina nuda tenemus" -Eco
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Postby km2_33 » Sun Nov 05, 2006 3:49 pm

Impenitent wrote: in fact he did call the troops uneducated.

Post the quote where he called the troops uneducated. Not your interpretation, not your words. Post the quote, verbatim.


(Remember, unlike Bush, Chaney, Rumsfeld Rice etc Kerry actually was in the military so I hardly think he'd call himself or his war buddies 'uneducated' but go ahead... make me laugh... )
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Why do they hate us? It's the injustice, stupid

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Postby Impenitent » Sun Nov 05, 2006 5:52 pm

km2_33 wrote:
Impenitent wrote: in fact he did call the troops uneducated.

Post the quote where he called the troops uneducated. Not your interpretation, not your words. Post the quote, verbatim.

ONE MORE TIME: he DID say
John Kerry wrote:"You know education. If you make the most of it, you study hard, you do your homework, and you make an effort to be smart, you can do well, and if you don't you get stuck in Iraq."
try to cover for your propagandist liar, but in fact he did call the troops uneducated.

(Remember, unlike Bush, Chaney, Rumsfeld Rice etc Kerry actually was in the military so I hardly think he'd call himself or his war buddies 'uneducated' but go ahead... make me laugh... )
.


he has been insulting the troops since 1972. laugh it up.

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cogito ergo cogito
sum ergo sum...

Λογοκρισία και σιωπή

What's the difference between a liberal and Al Qaeda?
Oh, you don't know either?

"False is the idea of utility that sacrifices a thousand real advantages for one imaginary or trifling inconvenience; that would take fire from men because it burns, and water because one may drown in it; that has no remedy for evils, except destruction. The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a nature. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes....Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man." (Thomas Jefferson)

"Stat rosa pristina nomine, nomina nuda tenemus" -Eco
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Postby Mastriani » Sun Nov 05, 2006 7:01 pm

Officers make up the smallest number of the military. Not to mention their education doesn't save them, they're still fucking morons, regardless.

Seeing as I actually was military, unlike a number of people foaming at the mouth here, I can attest to the fact that enlisted entrance is primarily as was stated, especially as concerns "underprivileged minorities".

Many come into the military as poor and uneducated, and see the military as an opportunity to change socioeconomic class status. That's a fact.

Anyone refuting that, is just a dupe with an agenda spouting off about things they don't know firsthand.

Was Kerry politically incorrect? Sure as shit. I can't stand him, but being politically incorrect doesn't make one factually wrong.

Get over it.
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Postby thirst4metal » Sun Nov 05, 2006 7:03 pm

I just love your hyperbole, Mastriani.
Foaming at the mouth indeed.




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Postby Mastriani » Sun Nov 05, 2006 7:21 pm

thirst4metal wrote:I just love your hyperbole, Mastriani.
Foaming at the mouth indeed.




-Thirst


?

You're just becoming strange. There was nothing exaggerated in my post.
I don't see how "hyperbole" fits? I just calls it likes I sees it. Nothing more.
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Postby thirst4metal » Sun Nov 05, 2006 7:36 pm

Foaming at the mouth is not an exaggeration?
Yeah, I am the one becoming strange.




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Postby tentative » Sun Nov 05, 2006 8:16 pm

Well, the military is changing and does have requirements a little more stringent than in decades past. Mas, when you and I were in uniform, the only real requirement was to have the ability to fog a mirror. Things have changed a little now. but you're absolutely correct to say that the military attracts those with less means to procure a solid footing in social strata. The thing that impresses and depresses me at the same time, is that for the most part, our young people who join the military are trying to better themselves. The depressing part is that for too many, it is their only option.
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Postby Mastriani » Sun Nov 05, 2006 8:42 pm

thirst4metal wrote:Foaming at the mouth is not an exaggeration?
Yeah, I am the one becoming strange.




-Thirst


It's called an "expression" or a "colloquialism" .... commonly used, known phrasing.

That doesn't qualify it for an exaggeration.
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Postby Navigator » Sun Nov 05, 2006 8:46 pm

tentative wrote: The depressing part is that for too many, it is their only option.


That's by design.
Reality is both an onion and a spiderweb.
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Postby Phaedrus » Sun Nov 05, 2006 8:48 pm

Indeed, back in the 'Nam era, when there was a draft, a pulse was enough to qualify you for military service. Not so anymore. Even in wartime the military is pickier now. Partly because numerous studies conducted by the Army have concluded that smarter, better educated soldiers are more effective, especially given the greater complexity of modern weapons systems and electronics.
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Postby Old_Gobbo » Sun Nov 05, 2006 10:27 pm

"You know education. If you make the most of it, you study hard, you do your homework, and you make an effort to be smart, you can do well, and if you don't you get stuck in Iraq."


Ok, Kerry knew he was going to lose. Straight up. There was a reason why he 'flip flopped' and all this stuff -- because he's working with Bush.


But in any case, if you listen to some of this stuff you can get an idea of how they like to play with words. Look closely at the quote again and tell me what you see.

This is all a big game to them, one that they laugh along to inside as they go to these press conferences and things. They get pleasure from being sneaky.


Kerry warned us, he's daring us: Learn some things and there's no way Iraq will continue under the guise it currently marches ahead with (minorities holding the flag of course ;))
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Postby thirst4metal » Sun Nov 05, 2006 10:41 pm

Mastriani wrote:It's called an "expression" or a "colloquialism" .... commonly used, known phrasing.

That doesn't qualify it for an exaggeration.

Didn't know you were a DJ, Spinmeister.




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Postby creation imperfect » Sun Nov 05, 2006 10:53 pm

Impenitent wrote:bush has made no gaffs that resulted in tens of thousands of deaths. but keep reading pravda...

-Imp


This may not be a gaff, but it is a folly.

Didn't Bush.... um.. believe that there were WMD's or believe Saddam had direct ties to 9/11 or something like that that resulted in thousands of deaths?

It seems like I remember something like that.
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Postby Mr. Predictable » Sun Nov 05, 2006 11:20 pm

If you listen to the whole speech it's clear that Kerry was trying to insult Bush and not the soldiers.

As one that finds sinister propaganda to be darkly amusing, you can see that the Republicans capitalised on the public's lack of awareness or interest in political rhetoric to completely refocus Kerry statements. All that you had to do was watch a clip of his comments to know what he meant, but most would have to seek that out and they didn't.

That says a lot.

At best it was fair play, as he sought to run Bush down behind his back, so then Bush did it better.
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Postby Phaedrus » Sun Nov 05, 2006 11:28 pm

When one attempts sarcastic, smarmy & insipid insults, only to have them blow up on one's face, I call it 'poetic justice.'
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Postby Mr. Predictable » Mon Nov 06, 2006 1:12 am

Phaedrus wrote:When one attempts sarcastic, smarmy & insipid insults, only to have them blow up on one's face, I call it 'poetic justice.'


I agree.

My point was that the only reason it worked for Bush is because few people care to know the context of what these guys say anyway. The bad stuff gets the attention for the most part.
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Postby Phaedrus » Mon Nov 06, 2006 1:20 am

Bush and Kerry both have a very hard time admitting they're wrong. You can see this readily by looking at their public histories. Ironically, Bush seems so self conscious about his lack of spontaneity and ability to think on his feet that he almost seems afraid at times to say anything, while Kerry seems so convinced that he's a genius that he continually comes across as a moron.
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