Conspiracy Theories

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Re: Conspiracy Theories

Postby Sidhe » Thu Jul 16, 2009 7:01 pm

Most forums have an area dedicated to nonsense, even rigorous science ones, for example one science forum I know files all this stuff under a forum called skepticism & debunking. If you think about it even though that sounds like a prejorative title it really isn't. Because it doesn't highlight what side of the argument you are debunking or being skeptical about.

Actually if I think about it that particular forum has strings, brains, M-theory section which means it has two nonsense sections. Three if you count philosophy which I'm afraid most scientists think is nonsense anyway. :D

usually it doesn't happen by accident it happens when people complain about all the detritus in inapt areas of the forum like putting 9/11 in engineering say, it might be mildly related but I'm sure most serious spanner jockeys don't want to hear about how impossible the whole thing was. In this forums case I don't know if that happens, as I don't venture into religious areas much, being unable to enter consecrated ground on account of being pure evil. :)
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Re: Conspiracy Theories

Postby Carleas » Fri Jul 17, 2009 6:05 am

Well, we have Mundane Babble and Rant House for acknowledged nonsense, i.e. things that aren't intended as any sort of philosophical sense, or aren't expressed for their sense but for expression's sake (some rants make points, but they're designed to vent). The problem with going farther than that is that calling something "nonsense" is too value-laden for a website where an analysis of "sense" makes sense.

Science boards are all well and good, for what they are, but a lot of science glosses over problems that are central to philosophy. They can call things 'nonsense' because there is a scientific establishment that defines sense and nonsense within the scope of science; they take certain things for granted, and anything that is contrary to those things is nonsense. But topics here are ostensibly philosophy, so they aren't bound by that establishment even when they are commenting on it. Furthermore, there is no philosophy establishment to which one can appeal.

The weakness and the strength of philosophy is that you can't take much for granted (at least not for long). And making a 'Nonsense' forum, or even a 'Conspiracy Theories' forum that would divide, e.g., between the accepted and the fringe accounts of 9/11, is taking too much for granted.
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Re: Conspiracy Theories

Postby Jayson » Fri Jul 17, 2009 11:34 am

Philosophy....conspiracy theories.

I'm failing to see the link between, "I Love Philosophy" and "Area 51 is hiding Aliens!".

I'm unlike Carleas on this one...I would say to visit conspiracy forums for that.

Everything here is bent on introspection in some way (less the blabbering release sections to just get it out of yourself when you can't handle it anymore).

If you want to talk about the philosophies or mindsets behind conspiracy theories, then strike it up in the appropriate forum (psychology seems fitting for this), but I see absolutely no merit in having a knee-jerked section to discuss the latest Skunk Works projects and NASA secret tapes.
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Re: Conspiracy Theories

Postby Pandora » Fri Jul 17, 2009 2:57 pm

TheStumps wrote: I'm failing to see the link between, "I Love Philosophy" and "Area 51 is hiding Aliens!".

Then how do you see a link between "I Love Philosophy" and threads like "Reason for God: The (True) Story of the Cross"?

TheStumps wrote:If you want to talk about the philosophies or mindsets behind conspiracy theories, then strike it up in the appropriate forum (psychology seems fitting for this), but I see absolutely no merit in having a knee-jerked section to discuss the latest Skunk Works projects and NASA secret tapes.

In that case, it would also make sense to close the Religion forum and modify all religion-related topics to address psychological reasons behind it, and just post them to Psychology forum.
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Re: Conspiracy Theories

Postby Sidhe » Fri Jul 17, 2009 3:05 pm

Carleas wrote:Well, we have Mundane Babble and Rant House for acknowledged nonsense, i.e. things that aren't intended as any sort of philosophical sense, or aren't expressed for their sense but for expression's sake (some rants make points, but they're designed to vent). The problem with going farther than that is that calling something "nonsense" is too value-laden for a website where an analysis of "sense" makes sense.


Well you can call it whatever you like, conspiracy, imaginative paranoia, self induced hysteria involving circular affirmation by people who live in their basement have metal walls and wear tinfoil hats, the search for the "truth".

Science boards are all well and good, for what they are, but a lot of science glosses over problems that are central to philosophy. They can call things 'nonsense' because there is a scientific establishment that defines sense and nonsense within the scope of science; they take certain things for granted, and anything that is contrary to those things is nonsense. But topics here are ostensibly philosophy, so they aren't bound by that establishment even when they are commenting on it. Furthermore, there is no philosophy establishment to which one can appeal.

The weakness and the strength of philosophy is that you can't take much for granted (at least not for long). And making a 'Nonsense' forum, or even a 'Conspiracy Theories' forum that would divide, e.g., between the accepted and the fringe accounts of 9/11, is taking too much for granted.


Indeed, scientists are an academic amorphous organisation, although they behave like a bag of cats, the consensus being what they appeal to. In philosophy a resort to authority or consensus is considered a potential fallacy, in science it is good form. Gaining consensus like there is in say a theory of evolution or 100% agreement is almost impossible though and if I can use the analogy of cats again: it's like herding cats, as the AGW issue shows and the ToE (Theory of Everything) in physics or GUT. In science though nothing gets you more noticed than overturning prevailing wisdom, in fact assassination of the mainstream is derrigeur even amongst the mainstream. Cats have sharp claws, and a very competitive nature. :wink:
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Re: Conspiracy Theories

Postby Jayson » Fri Jul 17, 2009 7:02 pm

Pandora wrote:
TheStumps wrote: I'm failing to see the link between, "I Love Philosophy" and "Area 51 is hiding Aliens!".

Then how do you see a link between "I Love Philosophy" and threads like "Reason for God: The (True) Story of the Cross"?

TheStumps wrote:If you want to talk about the philosophies or mindsets behind conspiracy theories, then strike it up in the appropriate forum (psychology seems fitting for this), but I see absolutely no merit in having a knee-jerked section to discuss the latest Skunk Works projects and NASA secret tapes.

In that case, it would also make sense to close the Religion forum and modify all religion-related topics to address psychological reasons behind it, and just post them to Psychology forum.

Because much of philosophy and religion are the same pursuit; one's introspective growth and understanding of one's surrounding experiences.

This is unlike conspiracy theories.
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>Hebrew, Greek, and more similar resources on ILP

Spiritual: a set of neurological processes dealing with value placement, empathy, and sympathy through the associative truncation of relative identity, and which has reached a value set capable of being described as reverent to the individual, and from which existential experience and reflection is capable explicitly.
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Re: Conspiracy Theories

Postby Moral_Jeff » Tue Sep 22, 2009 2:53 pm

Pandora wrote:Could we add a forum specializing in conspiracy theories to the Experimental Forums section?


<sighs>

Hasn't Hammond given us enough?

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Re: Conspiracy Theories

Postby Wonderer » Tue Sep 22, 2009 3:04 pm

I thought that Hammond was trying to prove the existence of God, not offer a theory of a conspiracy....

It's associations like yours Moral Jeff which lend the term "conspiracy theory" its negative stigma.
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