Army Doctor Held in Ft. Hood Rampage

[felix dakat]

By ROBERT D. McFADDEN/NYT
Published: November 5, 2009
"An Army psychiatrist facing deployment to one of America’s war zones killed 13 people and wounded 30 others on Thursday in a shooting rampage with two handguns at the sprawling Fort Hood Army post in central Texas, military officials said."

As if it isn't bad enough that this was "one of the worst mass shootings ever at a military base in the United States", due to the alleged shooter's identity as an officer, a psychiatrist, and an Arab-American Muslim, this incident will provide endless grist for the controversy mill.

[Oughtist]

What is perhaps most worthy of consideration is his own self-assessment that he should be allowed to leave the military, and his being disallowed to do so, ...then assigned to fight his spiritual bretheren. I figure, when a psychiatrist says, "I gotta go!", he's gotta go!!

[Xunzian]

I don't know about that. I don't trust self-diagnosis, especially when entering a combat zone. As for fighting his "spiritual brethren", that cannot be a concern for a soldier. He knew what he was signing up for when he joined the military and that it might involve fighting other Muslims. Indeed, he was in the service during both the first Iraq War under the first President Bush, its aftermath under President Clinton, both the Iraq and Afghanistan Wars under President Bush, and those wars under President Obama. Had he objected to these wars, he could have been discharged far, far earlier than right now.

[Oughtist]

I'm sure we'll get the whole story in the next day or so, or maybe a couple of whole stories... but the dirt I've heard (way up here in the True North... my how news travels fast!) is that 9/11 changed the basic conditions of what he thought he signed up for, and that for the last number of years (amidst some good-ol'-boy treatment by his brothers in arms) he had been suggesting that maybe he wasn't the right stuff anymore...

[felix dakat]

What is perhaps most worthy of consideration is his own self-assessment that he should be allowed to leave the military, and his being disallowed to do so, ...then assigned to fight his spiritual bretheren. I figure, when a psychiatrist says, "I gotta go!", he's gotta go!!

Ha! I predict this incident will take psychiatrist jokes to another level.

[Xunzian]

I'm sure we'll get the whole story in the next day or so, or maybe a couple of whole stories... but the dirt I've heard (way up here in the True North... my how news travels fast!) is that 9/11 changed the basic conditions of what he thought he signed up for, and that for the last number of years (amidst some good-ol'-boy treatment by his brothers in arms) he had been suggesting that maybe he wasn't the right stuff anymore...

My understanding is that the tour of duty that one signs up for is around four years in length. It has been well over four years since 9/11, so were that to be true (and I have no doubt he took a lot of shit) he could have honorably left the service. His continued re-enlistment is a sign of acceptance of that.

[anon]

Xunzian, so what you're saying is he could have been rational and sane but he wasn't?

[capslockf9]

Religious individuals are insane.

[Xunzian]

Well, what I am suggesting is that his insanity clearly extends beyond harassment at work. Based on interviews, clearly his commanders thought he was pretty good at his job so even if his academic performance were sub-par (military doctors tend to be either dedicated individuals from a military tradition or very near the bottom of their class and in desperate need of employment) he could have used the recommendation from those commanders to have a successful civilian life. So you can't say that he didn't have other avenues.

When someone has no other avenue, I do my best to defend them. Circumstance compels us to many things. But I don't think he was compelled to be a major in the American armed services during wartime. Because of that, cries of workplace stress, workplace harassment, unwillingness to fight against fellow Muslims, and so on all are pretty moot. Had he previously deployed, PTSD would be a possible excuse but since he didn't, it doesn't.

So what I am saying is that I do feel the man is crazy but crazy in such a way that I feel no need to absolve him of personal responsibility. Or at least the consequences thereof -- be that imprisonment, confinement to a mental institution, or execution (which, despite how we may feel about it in a civilian context ought always be an option, and not merely an option of last resort, in a military context).

[Rouzbeh]

The most read article on the Guardian is that he shouted Allahuakbar as he was shooting.
Where's Imp to advocate concealed carry

[Impenitent]

right here...

if the soldiers had been carrying their sidearms in the building where this happened, the body count would not have been as severe...

problem: this is an army post, they have different rules than the public

same old song and dance: an armed assassin, terrorist or insane shooter goes into a building where he knows that everyone is unarmed and shoots up the place...

more gun laws leave law abiding citizen unable to defend themselves

keep being a good target

-Imp

[Faust]

Wow, Imp. I didn't know that. Soldiers can't carry guns.............doesn't make much sense.

[Impenitent]

On most posts and bases weapons and ammunition are tightly locked down and the carrying of private weapons is tightly regulated.

gun laws at their finest.

-Imp

[Gobbo]

I'm sure we'll get the whole story in the next day or so

This is how long I laughed at that:

It was over a minute, but there were some trickle laughs.

[felix dakat]

Right. We will never get the whole story. We never do. "Whole story" is an oxymoron.

[anon]

On most posts and bases weapons and ammunition are tightly locked down and the carrying of private weapons is tightly regulated.

gun laws at their finest.

-Imp

Makes sense to me.

[capslockf9]

Wow, Imp. I didn't know that. Soldiers can't carry guns.............doesn't make much sense.

weapons not guns

any way for training, blanks and adapters are issued not real ammo

[felix dakat]

This from today's New York Times: "U.S. Knew of Fort Hood Suspect's Tie to Radical Cleric. Authorities intercepted communications between the Army major charged in the Fort Hood killings and a radical cleric but took no action."

[Oughtist]

I'm sure we'll get the whole story in the next day or so

This is how long I laughed at that:

It was over a minute, but there were some trickle laughs.

Did I say "whole story"?? Sorry, I meant "hole story".

[felix dakat]

News Alert
11:37 AM EST Thursday, November 12, 2009

Hasan to be charged with 13 counts of murder

Army officials this afternoon will charge Maj. Nidal M. Hasan with 13 counts of premeditated murder in last Thursday's killing of 12 soldiers and a civilian at Fort Hood, Tex., according to an Army official.

For more information, visit washingtonpost.com - http://link.email.washingtonpost.com/r/ ... GQAXR/9A/t

[Xunzian]

I'm surprised he wasn't also charged with treason (there are more than two witnesses) as well as desertion. Though the latter would be a little more difficult to argue.

[Gobbo]

On most posts and bases weapons and ammunition are tightly locked down and the carrying of private weapons is tightly regulated.

gun laws at their finest.

-Imp

Makes sense to me.

Makes perfect sense.

If you want to take guns from the american public, you enable situations like this. Over, and over, and over, and over.

Remember Columbine? Try doing a quick google search; you'll be surprised to see what has been de-classified since then.