Every philosopher needs a Psychoanalyst

[turtle]

It is obvious now from the replies, that philosophers do need psychoanalysts. Nothing of substance on this thread means the philosophers are hiding. Exposure of ignorance is not very pleasant. Let's deal with a specific item. We would all agree that there is a reproductive instinct in humans. But there would be a disagreement about a death instinct. Please come forward and tell the group if you have a death instinct. I don't believe I have a death instinct but I am not a philosopher. I bring up death because of the massive denial and distortion that persons have about the existential biggie.

[Only_Humean]

It is obvious now from the replies, that philosophers do need psychoanalysts. Nothing of substance on this thread means the philosophers are hiding. Exposure of ignorance is not very pleasant. Let's deal with a specific item. We would all agree that there is a reproductive instinct in humans. But there would be a disagreement about a death instinct. Please come forward and tell the group if you have a death instinct. I don't believe I have a death instinct but I am not a philosopher. I bring up death because of the massive denial and distortion that persons have about the existential biggie.

This is a philosophy discussion board, not a group therapy session. Either discuss philosophy, please, or request a move to a more relevant board.

Edit: this is not directed at turtle specifically, and not meant as a warning.

[turtle]

It is obvious now from the replies, that philosophers do need psychoanalysts. Nothing of substance on this thread means the philosophers are hiding. Exposure of ignorance is not very pleasant. Let's deal with a specific item. We would all agree that there is a reproductive instinct in humans. But there would be a disagreement about a death instinct. Please come forward and tell the group if you have a death instinct. I don't believe I have a death instinct but I am not a philosopher. I bring up death because of the massive denial and distortion that persons have about the existential biggie.

This is a philosophy discussion board, not a group therapy session. Either discuss philosophy, please, or request a move to a more relevant board.

ONLY-------------I think you have just made a philosophical error. Philosophy is intimately tied to psychology. You cannot separate the two. I wanted to make a philosophical point by bringing up the death instinct which has been discussed here before. Are you talking to turtle or everyone on this thread? Maybe you cannot stand the idea that what philosophers are writing, is profoundly influenced by their psychology. Also can you be more specific about what is bothering you.

[Only_Humean]

ONLY-------------I think you have just made a philosophical error. Philosophy is intimately tied to psychology. You cannot separate the two. I wanted to make a philosophical point by bringing up the death instinct which has been discussed here before. Are you talking to turtle or everyone on this thread? Maybe you cannot stand the idea that what philosophers are writing, is profoundly influenced by their psychology. Also can you be more specific about what is bothering you.

Sorry, I edited while you were writing this. It's probably a sign I wasn't breast-fed enough as a child.

I agree that philosophy is tied to psychology. It's also tied to sociology, religion and science, and we have separate boards for all of those things. Plus the Rant House if you want to get in touch with the anger you feel for an absent father, Creative Writing if you feel the need to express your anima's urges and Mundane Babble for your weekly spell on the couch

[turtle]

ONLY-------------I think you have just made a philosophical error. Philosophy is intimately tied to psychology. You cannot separate the two. I wanted to make a philosophical point by bringing up the death instinct which has been discussed here before. Are you talking to turtle or everyone on this thread? Maybe you cannot stand the idea that what philosophers are writing, is profoundly influenced by their psychology. Also can you be more specific about what is bothering you.

Sorry, I edited while you were writing this. It's probably a sign I wasn't breast-fed enough as a child.

I agree that philosophy is tied to psychology. It's also tied to sociology, religion and science, and we have separate boards for all of those things. Plus the Rant House if you want to get in touch with the anger you feel for an absent father, Creative Writing if you feel the need to express your anima's urges and Mundane Babble for your weekly spell on the couch

ONLY---------------Are you talking to turtle only? I am not responsible for what others are writing including you. If you are uncomfortable about integrating at times it does not have to do with breast feeding. Are you having a bad day?

[objet petit a]

Perhaps we should forget about it and just get back to the investigation of the psyche as a part of every theory. It would ..uuhm... signify the death-drive, wouldn't you say, turtle?

[turtle]

Perhaps we should forget about it and just get back to the investigation of the psyche as a part of every theory. It would ..uuhm... signify the death-drive, wouldn't you say, turtle?

OBJET------------I don't believe in a death drive. But you are right on about causing deep shit for philosophy. I love philosophy but I hate all people equally. My psychology effects what I say about life in that I like to tear down icons. I hated my father. I loved my mother. Now that is going to distort what wisdom I may have. And wisdom to me is having hard evidence and using it at the appropriate time. Now come and attack that, you philosophers.

[uglypeoplefucking]

i apologize for posting a patently un-philosophical response

[turtle]

It is obvious now from the replies, that philosophers do need psychoanalysts. Nothing of substance on this thread means the philosophers are hiding. Exposure of ignorance is not very pleasant. Let's deal with a specific item. We would all agree that there is a reproductive instinct in humans. But there would be a disagreement about a death instinct. Please come forward and tell the group if you have a death instinct. I don't believe I have a death instinct but I am not a philosopher. I bring up death because of the massive denial and distortion that persons have about the existential biggie.

This is a philosophy discussion board, not a group therapy session. Either discuss philosophy, please, or request a move to a more relevant board.

Edit: this is not directed at turtle specifically, and not meant as a warning.

ONLY------------I missed this. If it wasn't a warning then what was it? Why do you feel the need to intervene?

[turtle]

i apologize for posting a patently un-philosophical response

Then I apologize for being a non-philosopher on a philosophy forum.

[jonquil]

I'm also reading a little about OCD right now, and while my actions may be considered compulsive, I don't fit the bill for obsessive about anything at all. None of my actions seem to alleviate any kind of overt worry about anything, but instead simply bring me peace for some reason.

There is a bit of OCD in your habits, but I see them as attempts to control your world. It's like setting up habitual or addictive control patterns. But even that can show its own kind of control which, when you are able to see it, you attempt to gain control over by deliberately breaking it up a little or changing it around. I think it would be interesting for you to find out what happens when you let the habit go completely. If you start to get withdrawal symptoms, feeling nervous, emotional, or out of control, you know the former habit was a behavior you set up in order not to feel those feelings. If, then, you were to allow yourself to have those feelings completely and just wallow in them till they burned themselves out, you would suddenly find yourself free of compulsions and able to think and act with amazing clarity and creativity. It would be a very difficult process while going through it, but afterwards it would feel so good, I think.

[Only_Humean]

If it wasn't a warning then what was it? Why do you feel the need to intervene?

A request. And because I'm the Philosophy board moderator.

[turtle]

If it wasn't a warning then what was it? Why do you feel the need to intervene?

A request. And because I'm the Philosophy board moderator.

ONLY--------It sounded like a warning to me. I know you are the Philosophy board moderator. What I was asking-------what exactly do you want from me? Do you want me to write different words. As moderator please be more specific. Is there no thesis? . Do you want to send this thread somewhere else unless we do something different. Do it. You are the moderator.

[Only_Humean]

ONLY--------It sounded like a warning to me. I know you are the Philosophy board moderator. What I was asking-------what exactly do you want from me? Do you want me to write different words. As moderator please be more specific. Is there no thesis? . Do you want to send this thread somewhere else unless we do something different. Do it. You are the moderator.

I've been specific.

Either discuss philosophy, please, or request a move to a more relevant board.

If you have any more questions, please feel free to PM me.

[JohnJones]

jonquil
On that basis I wish to declare that anyone can be as fucked up as they like just because they think so, and as unfucked up as they please on the same basis. Legitimizing this declaration, however, is a matter for the courts and the system of jurisprudence which I assiduously endeavor to avoid at all times, being of sound enough mind and body to know that "the law is a ass

You can't legitimize a piece of nonsense. In this case, the nonsense is affected psychobabble, rooted in the puritanical codes of behaviour promoted through Freud's couch and chemical imbalance pantomimes. Give it up. That's what I say.

[PavlovianModel146]

Cool. #1 reminded me of my skittle wars. I would separate the skittles by colors to form their armies. (Hmm almost made my skittles seem to be racist nations looking back on it). Anyways I'd smash opposing colors together and the one that was destroyed I ate (the spoils of war) and the one that was not destroyed lived to fight another battle. I particularly remember favoring the orange nation of skittles, I enjoyed amassing as many of those as I could and saving for them for the last great battle.

That's pretty cool, I did the same thing with different color army pieces when I was a kid, I usually favored the Blue Army.

Nice to see you again, been awhile.

[PavlovianModel146]

1) i only eat once a day - it's more like a feeding than a meal - i'll eat a whole day's worth of food in one sitting (actually, i frequently eat standing up)

I don't think that's entirely strange. Whie it is true that I eat twice a day, about 80% of it comes with the first feeding.

2) i never wear shorts unless i'm swimming - i don't care how hot it gets

I used to have the same issue with shorts, but then I realized my calves are fucking ripped!

3) my screen name is uglypeoplefucking

True.

4) on a daily basis, i find myself intensely scared and sad for no discernible reason - this will usually last for between six and eight hours at a time

Could be manic depression.

5) i hate watching sports - any sport - with an absolute passion unparalelled by anything else in my life - worse than that, i hate sports commentary - it can literally make my skin crawl, my nose run, and cause me to see spots

Hate watching sports? Yup, officially fucked up.

6) i'll often begin to weep when i get embarrassed on someone else's behalf - for instance, i listen to a lot of call-in radio shows, and whenever a caller says something really stupid or inane, which happens more often than not, i'll start to cry a little bit.

Intense feelings of empathy, I don't know what that would be associated with.

7) i don't vote, but only because it's not worth getting jury duty

Many people refrain for that reason.

8.) i whisper long strings of profanities in my sleep, often for as much as 15 to 20 minutes at a stretch (i have no memory of doing so, but i've had several girlfreinds tell me about it)

I would suggest recording yourself, maybe something that you say in-between the profane words will give you some idea why you are doing that.

9) without caffeine, marijuana, and bourbon, i am nothing - seriously, i'm good as dead without those three substances

I'm useless without eight cups of coffee in the morning, very rarely do I drink any additional caffeine throughout the day.

10) i've been known to respond to the voices in my head by writing messages in duct tape on the walls and ceiling of my room

I don't know what to make of that, pretty cool, though.

11) i'm philosophically opposed to the capitalization of the "I" pronoun

There'a a valid Philosophical argument to be made there.

12) my list of the top ten reasons why i am fucked up contains twelve items

LOL

[PavlovianModel146]

I apologize for derailing this thread from being more Philosophy related to being more Psychology related, my Top-10 list pretty much started this whole thing.

I'll leave whether this thread remains here or goes to Psychology to Only-Humean's discretion.

ACTIONS:

1.) Thread moved to Psychology as it has become more of a Psychology related thread. Shadow topic left in place.

2.) Unofficial warning to PavlovianModel146 by both PavlovianModel146 & Only_Humean for first offense thread derailment. Any further instance of thread derailment by PavlovianModel146 will result in a Board Warning if it occurs in the near future.

3.) PavlovianModel146 accepts any and all responsiblity for the derailment of this thread.

[PavlovianModel146]

There is a bit of OCD in your habits, but I see them as attempts to control your world. It's like setting up habitual or addictive control patterns. But even that can show its own kind of control which, when you are able to see it, you attempt to gain control over by deliberately breaking it up a little or changing it around. I think it would be interesting for you to find out what happens when you let the habit go completely. If you start to get withdrawal symptoms, feeling nervous, emotional, or out of control, you know the former habit was a behavior you set up in order not to feel those feelings. If, then, you were to allow yourself to have those feelings completely and just wallow in them till they burned themselves out, you would suddenly find yourself free of compulsions and able to think and act with amazing clarity and creativity. It would be a very difficult process while going through it, but afterwards it would feel so good, I think.

I think that might be worth trying out just to see what happens, so I'll give the matter due consideration. As previously implied, I don't think that it would really bother me too much because I am not particularly bothered by not doing the majority of the actions that I listed, I simply prefer to do them. A comparison may be made to something like eating Hummus on Ritz Crackers, I thoroughly enjoy eating Hummus on Ritz Crackers, but if someone (who for whatever reason had the authority) were to tell me that I could never eat Hummus or Ritz Crackers ever again it wouldn't particularly bother me.

At the same time, though, I have a very active mind, so I would probably just replace those, "Compulsions," with something else that would probably be related to time or to numbers. The only obsession that I actually have is with biting my fingernails, I would really love to stop doing that because I often bite them until they bleed, but it seems as though I (almost) literally can't stop.

TURTLE:

I can't really say much about death except it is inevitable and it will happen when it happens. The thought of dying doesn't really concern me too much, and I don't really think that there is any need to concern oneself with an inevitability.

[uglypeoplefucking]

Yup, officially fucked up.

[WW_III_ANGRY]

Cool. #1 reminded me of my skittle wars. I would separate the skittles by colors to form their armies. (Hmm almost made my skittles seem to be racist nations looking back on it). Anyways I'd smash opposing colors together and the one that was destroyed I ate (the spoils of war) and the one that was not destroyed lived to fight another battle. I particularly remember favoring the orange nation of skittles, I enjoyed amassing as many of those as I could and saving for them for the last great battle.

That's pretty cool, I did the same thing with different color army pieces when I was a kid, I usually favored the Blue Army.

Nice to see you again, been awhile.

Hey same here, its good to be back I forgot about this place

[Fent]

What's the standard by which you can say "Most people are mentally healthy"?

I believe as soon as someone gives a standard of "normal behaviour", or that people "ought to act as such and such", they end up dividing people into groups of "normal" and "abnormal". Not that I am saying people shouldn't do this, or that I believe it could actually be done, not on a large scale anyway.
Probably the best counter-argument to the moral world outlook is to see everything as art. Morality is an artform; human created structures to mould a way of life into form. It is really just a method to stamp a way of life onto man.

The more one sees the world as a moral phenomenon the more angry they are likely to be, because they are going to to see "wrong" everywhere.

[Arcturus Descending]

What's the standard by which you can say "Most people are mentally healthy"?

For me, it would be that of being able to or trying to face reality to the fullest and to look/peer honestly into one' s self and maybe even greater than that - to have the capacity to suffer (not masochistically) but for their own growth...not to run from suffering but to dive into it and to come out the other side. I think, in actuality, they go hand in hand.

Perhaps every really good psychoanalyst is also a philosopher of the first caliber.

[Humpty]

Most people do this? I don't think so.

[Arcturus Descending]

What's the standard by which you can say "Most people are mentally healthy"?

Most people do this? I don't think so.

Sorry, you're absolutely right. For some reason, I excluded 'most' people from my reading of it.

I still feel that what I wrote above is the standard for mental health. Without those two things, one cannot even begin to have mental health or become more mentally healthy...to fight any kind of addiction or to go forward into a productive and happy life (not always necessarily happy but...) one needs to be self-honest and surrender to pain and suffering out of good self-love.