Human Depression

[Three Times Great]

I side with Blurred. James is being unfair with his petty attempts at psychoanalysis that are clearly unwanted and unneeded, and stem from assumed information and absurd generalities on his part. Not to mention that he brought up the whole clinical depression thing, but when I mentioned the people I am referring to are in fact clinically depressed, he switched on a dime and disavowed the whole clinical depression notion that he himself brought up (when it suited his purposes to point out that those people I was referring to were not "clinically depressed", that is until he found out that assumption was wrong, of course).

Sad, really. James you make some good points, but I think you are just too emotionally invested here to really 'get it'.

Oh well.

[statiktech]

Sad, really. James you make some good points, but I think you are just too emotionally invested here to really 'get it'.

This is exactly my point, and not a slight to you James. Just an observation. You do seem more interested in the volume and quantity of your 'input' than the quality or reception.

[turtle]

come on jss tell us more about yourself. what is going on.

[James S Saint]

Oh now this is getting almost fun..

I side with Blurred. James is being unfair with his petty attempts at psychoanalysis that are clearly unwanted and unneeded, and stem from assumed information and absurd generalities on his part. Not to mention that he brought up the whole clinical depression thing, but when I mentioned the people I am referring to are in fact clinically depressed, he switched on a dime and disavowed the whole clinical depression notion that he himself brought up (when it suited his purposes to point out that those people I was referring to were not "clinically depressed", that is until he found out that assumption was wrong, of course).

Sad, really. James you make some good points, but I think you are just too emotionally invested here to really 'get it'.

What .. in ..the .. HELL .. are you talking about?? It amazes me what people can inject into a thread that wasn't ever there.

1) Blurry brought up "clinical depression"
2) YOU brought up that you knew people diagnosed as "clinically depressed".
3) I explained where their use of the word "clinical" came from and what it meant.

I also explained that regardless of who diagnosed them, even if God himself told you that they are clinically depressed, yet they easily show aggression, "getting upset easily", then they are NOT depressed, clinically or otherwise. Depressed people can be medicated into aggressive behavior or slyly tricked into it, but void of such intervention, any aggressive behavior voids a diagnosis of "depression". Depression means that they do not care and thus are NOT easily excited.

Do you understand the words "oppression" and/or "suppression"? That is what you are all leaving out of the entire effort to categorize people. The oppressed are the one who easily get upset, NOT the DEpressed.

Are you even reading the thread? Nothing has changed. I haven't "switched" from anything.

This is exactly my point, and not a slight to you James. Just an observation. You do seem more interested in the volume and quantity of your 'input' than the quality or reception.

Yes, I am the one who actually answers the question rather than kissing ass so as to make friends. The truth being buried by sycophants too afraid of being rejected or stepping on someone's toes is exactly what is causing a huge amount of the eventual depression that we are talking about because they hide the truth and real causes.

[Blurry]

Alright James, you win.

You're the only person in this thread who knows what they're talking about. Your opinion on the matter is the only answer to any questions about depression.

Good job.

[James S Saint]

The whole point is for everyone to throw out their opinions and any reasoning they might have to back them up. I have not complained about anyone doing so. I disagree with some and agree with some, just as I have stated.

I didn't challenge you. I merely answered your challenge of me.

Sorry, but I AM a honored member of the "Bite the Bitch Back" club. But I am Also a member of the "Do all you can to help them even if they don't know it or like it" club.

[lizbethrose]

There's a semi-informed booklet summarized on line at: http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/publicat ... ndex.shtml. I say 'semi-informed' because it's written for laics who've been diagnosed with depression and/or their caregivers. It's not a bad over-view.

So far, turtle, savant and I have admitted we experience diagnosed depression. There certainly must be more since hundreds of thousands of Americans have been diagnosed with the condition. Savant and I have been told our condition stems from an imbalance in the chemical transmitters within our brains. I'd rather believe that than believe I'm just 'nuts'--but there's more to it than that. I know of too many family members who also exhibit symptoms of, or have been diagnosed with, various forms of depression.

Savant has been on drugs, but got off of them. She must be younger than I, or more tolerant of her depressive states. I've been on and off meds for years. I've also gone through psychological therapy and psychoanalysis and I've learned a lot from both. I'm on a medication, venlafaxine, which is a serotonin and norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor. It balances these two chemical neurotransmitters so they become 'normal.'

Could I stop the meds? Sure, but I'd have to do it gradually. Quite frankly, I'm too afraid to do so. There are times when, even with the meds, I don''t really feel my very 'best.' Knowing that, I really don't want to feel my very worst.

Here's an example of what the booklet says:

There is no single known cause of depression. Rather, it likely results from a combination of genetic, biochemical, environmental, and psychological factors.

Research indicates that depressive illnesses are disorders of the brain. Brain-imaging technologies, such as magnetic resonance imaging (MRI), have shown that the brains of people who have depression look different than those of people without depression. The parts of the brain responsible for regulating mood, thinking, sleep, appetite and behavior appear to function abnormally. In addition, important neurotransmitters–chemicals that brain cells use to communicate–appear to be out of balance. But these images do not reveal why the depression has occurred.

Some types of depression tend to run in families, suggesting a genetic link. However, depression can occur in people without family histories of depression as well.9 Genetics research indicates that risk for depression results from the influence of multiple genes acting together with environmental or other factors.10

In addition, trauma, loss of a loved one, a difficult relationship, or any stressful situation may trigger a depressive episode. Subsequent depressive episodes may occur with or without an obvious trigger.

[Arcturus Descending]

http://www.psycheducation.org/mechanism ... s.htm#sobo

This might shed a little more light on the subject...draw it in a bit.

[Three Times Great]

And what I am saying is that what you are calling "depressed people that you know" is short sighted categorizing. Just because a person spends time being depressed while other times they are angry or aggressive does NOT mean they are a depressed personality (nor "clinically depressed")

I brought up that I know people who are depressed and also get upset easily. You said the above in response to that, indicating that those people I know are not clinically depressed. I proved you wrong, because they are, in fact, clinically depressed. Then you tried to pretend that you never used the standard of clinical depression at all.

Case closed.

Go away now?

[turtle]

i dont want jss to go away....i dont want the case closed because there are important things here.
the thing that jss brings up that is vitally important is that our society sucks at the way they treat depressed people....they throw an antidepressant at everything.....and the doctors believe the shit the drug companies are saying....and the insurance providers only pay for drugs.....

[James S Saint]

And what I am saying is that what you are calling "depressed people that you know" is short sighted categorizing. Just because a person spends time being depressed while other times they are angry or aggressive does NOT mean they are a depressed personality (nor "clinically depressed")

I brought up that I know people who are depressed and also get upset easily. You said the above in response to that, indicating that those people I know are not clinically depressed. I proved you wrong, because they are, in fact, clinically depressed. Then you tried to pretend that you never used the standard of clinical depression at all.

A) You haven't "proved" anything at all (or perhaps your inability to read).
B) I haven't pretended anything at all nor changed any story at all.

Case closed.

Go away now?

If you can't display the non-sense that you are spouting and accusing me of...

Up Yours, chump. YOU "Go away?"

[turtle]

i dont want jss to go away....i dont want the case closed because there are important things here.
the thing that jss brings up that is vitally important is that our society sucks at the way they treat depressed people....they throw an antidepressant at everything.....and the doctors believe the shit the drug companies are saying....and the insurance providers only pay for drugs.....

i am not going away.....

[Three Times Great]

James, I quoted you, you can't deny what you said. How do you tell me that the people I am referring to are not "clinically depressed", and when I tell you that they are, you say, "So, that doesn't mean anything"? Seriously, you can't use one notion both as a standard by which you evaluate someone's point and at the same time dismiss that standard when it turns out you were wrong to begin with. You are trying to shift the goalposts constantly, whenever someone brings up a point that invalidates or threatens to invalidate what you have been saying. It gets old, you know.

*Yawn*

I do have better things to do than trade words with someone so personally obsessed with his own emotional vendetta. As I said, you made some good points, but then you got so invested in them that, when it has been shown where and how your points are either wrong or incomplete, you become defensive and your personal dishonesty with yourself is revealed. I wonder what you are running from, that you act in such a fixated and ignorant manner here. Blurred has shown how your ideas of her "depression" are incorrect, but you refuse to see. You seem more interested in hurting her than anything else. Which makes your motives for participating in this discussion quite suspect.

[turtle]

can we get back to writing about depression...
one thing i am concerned about is whether you are dealing with a recurring problem or one that is just a onetime thing. doctors like to keep you on anti-depressants for indefinite periods......the drug companies love to have people on their drugs until it beomes generic.

[James S Saint]

James, I quoted you, you can't deny what you said.

You have NOT quoted me at ALL. You are now just lying. Your lying is what is getting old quick.

You DO know how to use the little "[quote]" tags right?

[James S Saint]

can we get back to writing about depression...
one thing i am concerned about is whether you are dealing with a recurring problem or one that is just a onetime thing. doctors like to keep you on anti-depressants for indefinite periods......the drug companies love to have people on their drugs until it beomes generic.

Society NEEDS a proponent for the other side, the side toward NO MEDS unless proven that social intervention doesn't work well enough. Currently no one is even trying to do it without constant medication except those who have very little sound idea as to what it takes. They worship anyone with a degree. They need to gauge by rational results, not articles supposedly honestly written.

[turtle]

can we get back to writing about depression...
one thing i am concerned about is whether you are dealing with a recurring problem or one that is just a onetime thing. doctors like to keep you on anti-depressants for indefinite periods......the drug companies love to have people on their drugs until it beomes generic.

i am not going away guys

[James S Saint]

Your not waiting long enough either... patience..

[turtle]

can we get back to writing about depression...
one thing i am concerned about is whether you are dealing with a recurring problem or one that is just a onetime thing. doctors like to keep you on anti-depressants for indefinite periods......the drug companies love to have people on their drugs until it beomes generic.

[Three Times Great]

James, I quoted you, you can't deny what you said.

You have NOT quoted me at ALL. You are now just lying. Your lying is what is getting old quick.

You DO know how to use the little "

" tags right?

viewtopic.php?p=2213692#p2213692

Liars always accuse others of lying.

[James S Saint]

James, I quoted you, you can't deny what you said.

You have NOT quoted me at ALL. You are now just lying. Your lying is what is getting old quick.

You DO know how to use the little "

" tags right?

viewtopic.php?p=2213692#p2213692

Liars always accuse others of lying.

Yes, you do. And you have merely referenced YOURSELF. So I take it that you do NOT know how to use the "[quote]" tags.

Quote where I "switched" my story, or lied, or any of the non-sense you have invented. Else crawl back into your hole or address the actual topic as turtle keeps requesting.

[lizbethrose]

can we get back to writing about depression...
one thing i am concerned about is whether you are dealing with a recurring problem or one that is just a onetime thing. doctors like to keep you on anti-depressants for indefinite periods......the drug companies love to have people on their drugs until it beomes generic.

Geeze, I thought everyone was more interested in debating JSS than in discussing the topic. I say this because I've written in two forums about depression and still no one seems to understand.

I was always genetically predisposed to the condition, but it took a series of traumatic events before I realized something was wrong. So it was a gradual thing. One final event was the straw that broke the camel's back--and even then, I didn't see it as an immediate snap. But it was.

My depression, since it's the result of a genetic chemical imbalance, is a life-time thing, rather than a recurring or a onetime thing. It's kind of like PTSD--which is a form of depression--only I don't dwell on it. The drug I take is a generic--its brand name is Effexor, which I took before the generic was released. Taking the generic hasn't lowered the co-pay, since the pharm still holds the patent on Effexor, but it should come down by 2015, when the patent runs out.

JSS is correct when he says depression is a lack of feeling. But I think it goes beyond that, if that's possible. Depression is a nothingness--a void--and who the Hell wants to live that way? However, I don't believe trying to change the way someone thinks through cognitive re-training will help everyone who experiences clinical depression.

[lizbethrose]

http://www.psycheducation.org/mechanism/1MoralityorGenes.htm#sobo

This might shed a little more light on the subject...draw it in a bit.

AR, I got to the start of Chapter Two, and then gave up. What's stressful and life-changing for one person doesn't mean it's the same for all people. What was initially stressful for me wasn't my marriage, which after 35 years is much better than most.

The predisposition for depression may reside in a gene--who really knows exactly which gene. If it's a gene, then it's genetic--no?

If it's genetic, there is no cure. And all the people who say it can be overcome through whatever means they support--getting over it, learning new ways to think, changing one's environment, and so on, have no idea of what they're talking about.

Therefore, they should shut up!

This is a really poor syllogism, but it's the sort of 'logical' syllogism many people use.

[lizbethrose]

AR, I've now gone through Chapter 3 and I'm still trying to find a correlation between what the author describes and my life. Perhaps I've gone through 'suppression,' as JSS suggests.

I grew up as the daughter of an Army officer. While he was somewhat of a martinet, he was less so than most officers of his rank and position. Even so, he often frightened me--not because of who he was, but because what I was could affect what he was. If an officer yells, "Jump!" everyone jumps. Only afterwords do the rank and file question.

I believe I know and accept the stress in my life, for the most part--but stress still led to depression--it still led to the breaking point that's left me with a life-time of taking pills that restore my equilibrium.

Hey, after 3 brain surgeries to correct another brain malfunction--essential tremor--I still need propranolol to control my tremor before we go out to dinner. Otherwise I have to steady my right hand with my left in order to get the salad into my mouth. Such is my life, folks.

I wouldn't trade it--It's mine!--and I love it.

[statiktech]

Yes, I am the one who actually answers the question rather than kissing ass so as to make friends.

That is quite the burden. I can only imagine your study habits if you are expected to have all the answers.

The truth being buried by sycophants too afraid of being rejected or stepping on someone's toes is exactly what is causing a huge amount of the eventual depression that we are talking about because they hide the truth and real causes.

And this is your diagnosis for the whole of humanity? What is the underlying motivation here -- that is, why do you think taking medication is the wrong thing to do? Are those who rely on medication[s] "bad" people?