Osama bin Laden is Dead.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfzE_TK-zmQ&feature=player_embedded[/youtube]

The guy says(Sekulow) “they define pro-lifers as domestic terroirsts…now saying pro-lifers people that believe end-time prophies, people opposed to this administration position on immigration, those of us standing up for the sanctity of life and marriage…all of those are now potential - this is what they are saying - domestic terrorists.”

This is the problem with conspiracy theories, or atleast a lot of them, they are forwarded and articulated by people who are oppressively right wing, and actively puruse an end that is arguably worse than the conspiracy. This fucking guy is on the board of an institute set up by Pat Robertson specifically to oppose the ACLU, and from what I can tell he has positioned himself to obtain financial gain by getting right-wing people to believe this shit. He runs right-wing issue non-profits and pays himself millions. No different than a televangelists.

Here’s the document he’s talking about: fas.org/irp/eprint/rightwing.pdf

It doesn’t mention “prophesy people” at all, and mentions abortion several times because of America’s long history with right-wing abortion based terrorism - it mention immigration for the same reason. It concludes only that abortion and immigration may be an issue hateful people use as a rallying point for violence, and that right-wing violence has historically been amplified during economic downturns. Since this was released abortion providers have been killed, local “militia’s” plans for violence have been thwarted, and ant-immigrant violence has increased around the world and in the U.S.

Here’s the FEMA camps:
popularmechanics.com/technol … ws/4312850

I know it’s a bullshit moneymaker just like religion

What’s your (anyone here) response to people claiming that it was “wrong” to shoot ObL as an unarmed man and he should have been arrested for trial and whatnot?

Bin Laden’s last facebook message:

Sorry, had to share that.

Hm. My response is, “Why should we do that?”

He’s already taken the “credit” for horrible atrocities against the American public. Now whether he actually did do it or not is a somewhat controversial subject, I know, but the fact is he confessed, publicly. What else is there to accomplish from a trial, other than letting the American public see their enemy and his death? That probably would’ve been the smart thing to do given the doubt that has been sparked in the minds of so many people when the government failed to produce any clear proof of his death (his dead body, IOW), but I don’t think it was wrong to shoot him despite him being unarmed. This man claims to have been the mastermind behind the murders of thousands of civilians. Fucking shoot the bastard, yes.

he was killed for other reasons than revenge…
he knew a lot about what goes on in the middle east
that could be embarassing to us…

No, someone who only looked a little similar confessed. The original denied it immediately, which is the opposite of what EVERY Muslim terrorist does. Terrorism is pointless without the boast. He first didn’t even know about it until he was asked if he had done it.

Later, a very poor substitute made a video and came on TV to argue against conspiracy theorists (like some famed Muslim terrorist could give a shit what some conspiracy theorist in the US claims).

Yep. Yet another “take our word for it” issue, much like Obama’s recently published birth cert (3 years later) that has already been proven a fake.

You guys really are suckers beyond belief. And because of it, you are ALWAYS being led to believe someone is guilty when at times, that person never even existed. “Hate who we say”, “Love who we say”, “KILL who we say”. “We are the good guys”

I have figured out the entire world! Follow me sheep, you’re too stupid, you listen to everyone else but now listen to me, I am right, your world view is wrong! Sheep!

James, if we’re so ignorant why is anyone questioning whether he’s dead or not? I would imagine that we’re not so much different than other developed countries. Some people follow blindly, others question. That has less to do with our culture than with human nature.

I’d like some examples to back up your claims. I’m talking hard evidence, not a link to some conspiracy theorist’s website. Prove that what you say is historically accurate. If you can’t, and I suspect this will be the case, you’re doing nothing more than spreading your opinion as if it were fact. STFU with that bullshit

There are people out there who will hate Americans no matter what we do. I gather you’re one of those people. Myself, I’m not too fond of the way we do things here. I dream longingly of escape, only to realize that it doesn’t really matter where I go (unless I lose myself in a jungle somewhere), there’s no getting away from it. Politics are politics and bullshit is a worldwide epidemic (one you’re obviously familiar with, given the bullshit you just spouted). The only reason you assholes are so obsessed with the faults of Americans is because we’re the baddest bully in the schoolyard. If it wasn’t us, it’d be someone else. I’m not saying I think it’s right, but that’s the way it is. If you really want to do something, go look in the fucking mirror. The world is not going to change until people change themselves, but one may as well cut that sentence off at “The world is not going to change”, because people are too concerned with what’s going on next door and not paying attention to what’s going on in their own backyard. People would much rather blame someone else, whether it be the big, bad American government for fucking up the world even though that responsibility falls on ALL of humanity, or the person who budged in the coffee line for making you late to work even though you were running late already and shouldn’t have even stopped for that coffee. It’s a game of excuses – any excuse to not have to face ourselves and our own faults and mistakes. It makes me sick.

The moon landing was fake too.

Being “ignorant” is the entire point. Not knowing that you are ignorant of the facts is the problem.

EVERYTHING you get as “evidence” is through someone reporting it who is not under any constraint to never lie or distort. It is hearsay, prejudice, bias, invention, and nothing more. There is no such thing as “hard evidence” if you are not there yourself. You have to remove the liar between you and reality even if he wasn’t lying, else you know nothing at all.

What that means is that when someone says, “Go kill that guy and throw the body in the Sea because he is a really BAD guy”, every bit of evidence to substantiate him being a “bad guy” is irrelevant, yet you are asked to believe that not only is he a bad guy, but that YOU should go kill him “for US” - and emm… [size=75]hide the body and evidence in the Sea[/size].

Much like the 9/11 scenario, the entire official story is highly untenable and some of it provably fake. The Obama birth cert issue was highly untenable and the newly released proof, is provably fake.

In the midst of liars, you only know one thing - that is that you know nothing from what you have heard. Yet you are asked to go kill for “US”. Who is this “US”, really?

I have nothing to say to you on this matter anymore. You have shown a pattern here of spouting off opinions and being unwilling to back them up with anything but more opinions. That’s not discussion, that’s preaching.

My point was that in the midst of liars, you actually know nothing and thus killing is a bad idea.

Now are you going to argue against that?

“Al Quada” means “the database”, a list of the spies, thieves, murderers, cons, and conspirators. “We must destroy Al Quada” = “we must destroy the database of information”. 9/11 not only destroyed the data, but also obfuscated billions of dollars that went missing.

The world is a stage, don’t go killing people to protect the playwright.

James, you have sailed right past the point. I never said that I know bin Laden orchestrated the 9/11 attack. What I said was, even if there had been a trial the man would’ve been killed. We all know it. It doesn’t matter whether he did it or not, he said he did, and your claim that it wasn’t him is nothing more than a theory.

But let’s imagine for a moment that your theory is correct, and it wasn’t him in that video claiming credit. He’d STILL have been killed, because the popular opinion is that bin Laden is responsible for the attack, and the reason people believe he is responsible is because they saw a videotape. That’s hard evidence in the eyes of a lot of people, and no hard evidence to the contrary can be found, but rather just people like you claiming you know the truth. There would be no impartial judge or jury in that trial. Osama bin Laden was going to die, and if we are being lied to and he wasn’t killed, he’d better hope he continues to elude capture, because he will be killed if he’s found. Again, I’m not saying it’s right, but that’s the way it is.

You’re setting up your own argument here by believing that just because a person comments on why something happened, they believe popular opinion associated with the issue. I left my statements concerning whether he was involved in the 9/11 attack open, on purpose. Fucking learn how to read.

A “theory” that would have been provable IF the evidence wasn’t destroyed so that a court of law could never bring out the truth.

Again, an untenable situation for an honest perpetrator. “Destroy the body so we cannot be proven to be guilty”. Why not preserve the body so that you CAN be proven innocent?

And realize that you are granting permission for someone to kill YOU because they believe that the evidence is sufficient (that was put in front of their eyes) and you would be put to death anyway, so why not.

The government and the rest of the world understand nutcases wouldn’t be convinced even if the body were put on public display. Here’s an easy conspiracy theory on why that would be the case:
It’d probably be the same guy who did the fake obama tape confessing to 9/1. He finally died of cancer or something (thus the 10 year delay or so). They would’ve then shot him up to hide the real truth, which is whatever you want to make up.

Blurred,

I think he’s got you here, Blurred.

In any event, American foreign policy has little or nothing to do with the pursuit of freedom, justice, democracy or human rights. It has everything to do with the pursuit of markets, cheap labor and natural resources.

Like, for example, oil.

In other words, American foreign policy is predicated on the Bilderberg Group agenda. Go ahead, Google it.

The Bilderberg agenda aims to carve up the 3rd world [and in particular the Middle East and South Asia] in order to secure from it access to plentiful natural resources. It is an imperialistic foreign policy in this sense. And when your foreign policy revolves around imperialism and you plunder 3rd world nations for all you can get there is going to be what is called “blowback”.

And that blowback will include Osama bin Ladens, 9/11s, shoe bombers and undie-terrorists. But if your whole frame of mind is twisted by the folks [in the military industrial complex] who profit from imperialism you can easily be duped into believing we are in Iraq and Afghanistan [and now Libya] only because we are peace-loving, freedom-loving purveyors of democracy around the globe. You might then fail to figure out how these relationships really work instead.

Colin Powell:

What is the greatest threat facing us now? People will say it’s terrorism. But are there any terrorists in the world who can change the American way of life or our political system? No. Can they knock down a building? Yes. Can they kill somebody? Yes. But can they change us? No. Only we can change ourselves. So what is the great threat we are facing?

and this:

These are dangerous criminals, and we must deal with them. But come on, this is not a threat to our survival! The only thing that can really destroy us is us. We shouldn’t do it to ourselves, and we shouldn’t use fear for political purposes-scaring people to death so they will vote for you, or scaring people to death so that we create a terror-industrial complex.

It’s not for nothing that bin Laden and Al Qaeda chose to blow up the World Trade Center and the Pentagon. They symbolize to many around the globe the utterly pecuniary relationship between Washington and Wall Street as they plot [through the Council on Foreign Relations] how to use folks like Osama bin Laden and 9/11 to perpetuate a global economy that strives always to perserve the interests of the ruling class.

Or don’t you believe there is one?

Now, I don’t personally subscribe to many of the “truther” [and now “deather”] conspiracy theories. But I have little or no doubt that 9/11 and radical jihad are being used as the latest bogeyman to replace Fascism and Communism in perpetrating and perpetuating America’s imperialist foreign and economic policy.

Okay, here we go again.

I’m not “granting permission” for anything. I’m explaining to you the way it is. I’m not justifying it, I’m explaining why it is so. I didn’t say I agree with it. I didn’t say I don’t have doubts about the matter. But no matter what I think, no matter whether I agree or not, it happened. Did I not say, in my initial post, that destroying the body was unwise? In my last post, the final sentence was, “…I’m not saying it’s right, but that’s the way it is.”

I will reiterate. Learn to fucking read. Start with my first post and read forward. Take note of my non-commital tone. I did that intentionally, because unlike you I recognize that the issue has been covered in so much bullshit and politics that there is no way for me, or you, or anyone else on this fucking forum to get to the bottom of it.

Because without a trial it is non-judicial execution, y’know, our societies are based on the rule of human/rational law, or whatever, and that to go about executing people without trial kinda contradicts that, so, like, y’know, you don’t want to come across as hypocritical n’all that…especially when you’re waging a pro-democracy war in the Middle East… :-"