Osama bin Laden is Dead.

Being “ignorant” is the entire point. Not knowing that you are ignorant of the facts is the problem.

EVERYTHING you get as “evidence” is through someone reporting it who is not under any constraint to never lie or distort. It is hearsay, prejudice, bias, invention, and nothing more. There is no such thing as “hard evidence” if you are not there yourself. You have to remove the liar between you and reality even if he wasn’t lying, else you know nothing at all.

What that means is that when someone says, “Go kill that guy and throw the body in the Sea because he is a really BAD guy”, every bit of evidence to substantiate him being a “bad guy” is irrelevant, yet you are asked to believe that not only is he a bad guy, but that YOU should go kill him “for US” - and emm… [size=75]hide the body and evidence in the Sea[/size].

Much like the 9/11 scenario, the entire official story is highly untenable and some of it provably fake. The Obama birth cert issue was highly untenable and the newly released proof, is provably fake.

In the midst of liars, you only know one thing - that is that you know nothing from what you have heard. Yet you are asked to go kill for “US”. Who is this “US”, really?

I have nothing to say to you on this matter anymore. You have shown a pattern here of spouting off opinions and being unwilling to back them up with anything but more opinions. That’s not discussion, that’s preaching.

My point was that in the midst of liars, you actually know nothing and thus killing is a bad idea.

Now are you going to argue against that?

“Al Quada” means “the database”, a list of the spies, thieves, murderers, cons, and conspirators. “We must destroy Al Quada” = “we must destroy the database of information”. 9/11 not only destroyed the data, but also obfuscated billions of dollars that went missing.

The world is a stage, don’t go killing people to protect the playwright.

James, you have sailed right past the point. I never said that I know bin Laden orchestrated the 9/11 attack. What I said was, even if there had been a trial the man would’ve been killed. We all know it. It doesn’t matter whether he did it or not, he said he did, and your claim that it wasn’t him is nothing more than a theory.

But let’s imagine for a moment that your theory is correct, and it wasn’t him in that video claiming credit. He’d STILL have been killed, because the popular opinion is that bin Laden is responsible for the attack, and the reason people believe he is responsible is because they saw a videotape. That’s hard evidence in the eyes of a lot of people, and no hard evidence to the contrary can be found, but rather just people like you claiming you know the truth. There would be no impartial judge or jury in that trial. Osama bin Laden was going to die, and if we are being lied to and he wasn’t killed, he’d better hope he continues to elude capture, because he will be killed if he’s found. Again, I’m not saying it’s right, but that’s the way it is.

You’re setting up your own argument here by believing that just because a person comments on why something happened, they believe popular opinion associated with the issue. I left my statements concerning whether he was involved in the 9/11 attack open, on purpose. Fucking learn how to read.

A “theory” that would have been provable IF the evidence wasn’t destroyed so that a court of law could never bring out the truth.

Again, an untenable situation for an honest perpetrator. “Destroy the body so we cannot be proven to be guilty”. Why not preserve the body so that you CAN be proven innocent?

And realize that you are granting permission for someone to kill YOU because they believe that the evidence is sufficient (that was put in front of their eyes) and you would be put to death anyway, so why not.

The government and the rest of the world understand nutcases wouldn’t be convinced even if the body were put on public display. Here’s an easy conspiracy theory on why that would be the case:
It’d probably be the same guy who did the fake obama tape confessing to 9/1. He finally died of cancer or something (thus the 10 year delay or so). They would’ve then shot him up to hide the real truth, which is whatever you want to make up.

Blurred,

I think he’s got you here, Blurred.

In any event, American foreign policy has little or nothing to do with the pursuit of freedom, justice, democracy or human rights. It has everything to do with the pursuit of markets, cheap labor and natural resources.

Like, for example, oil.

In other words, American foreign policy is predicated on the Bilderberg Group agenda. Go ahead, Google it.

The Bilderberg agenda aims to carve up the 3rd world [and in particular the Middle East and South Asia] in order to secure from it access to plentiful natural resources. It is an imperialistic foreign policy in this sense. And when your foreign policy revolves around imperialism and you plunder 3rd world nations for all you can get there is going to be what is called “blowback”.

And that blowback will include Osama bin Ladens, 9/11s, shoe bombers and undie-terrorists. But if your whole frame of mind is twisted by the folks [in the military industrial complex] who profit from imperialism you can easily be duped into believing we are in Iraq and Afghanistan [and now Libya] only because we are peace-loving, freedom-loving purveyors of democracy around the globe. You might then fail to figure out how these relationships really work instead.

Colin Powell:

What is the greatest threat facing us now? People will say it’s terrorism. But are there any terrorists in the world who can change the American way of life or our political system? No. Can they knock down a building? Yes. Can they kill somebody? Yes. But can they change us? No. Only we can change ourselves. So what is the great threat we are facing?

and this:

These are dangerous criminals, and we must deal with them. But come on, this is not a threat to our survival! The only thing that can really destroy us is us. We shouldn’t do it to ourselves, and we shouldn’t use fear for political purposes-scaring people to death so they will vote for you, or scaring people to death so that we create a terror-industrial complex.

It’s not for nothing that bin Laden and Al Qaeda chose to blow up the World Trade Center and the Pentagon. They symbolize to many around the globe the utterly pecuniary relationship between Washington and Wall Street as they plot [through the Council on Foreign Relations] how to use folks like Osama bin Laden and 9/11 to perpetuate a global economy that strives always to perserve the interests of the ruling class.

Or don’t you believe there is one?

Now, I don’t personally subscribe to many of the “truther” [and now “deather”] conspiracy theories. But I have little or no doubt that 9/11 and radical jihad are being used as the latest bogeyman to replace Fascism and Communism in perpetrating and perpetuating America’s imperialist foreign and economic policy.

Okay, here we go again.

I’m not “granting permission” for anything. I’m explaining to you the way it is. I’m not justifying it, I’m explaining why it is so. I didn’t say I agree with it. I didn’t say I don’t have doubts about the matter. But no matter what I think, no matter whether I agree or not, it happened. Did I not say, in my initial post, that destroying the body was unwise? In my last post, the final sentence was, “…I’m not saying it’s right, but that’s the way it is.”

I will reiterate. Learn to fucking read. Start with my first post and read forward. Take note of my non-commital tone. I did that intentionally, because unlike you I recognize that the issue has been covered in so much bullshit and politics that there is no way for me, or you, or anyone else on this fucking forum to get to the bottom of it.

Because without a trial it is non-judicial execution, y’know, our societies are based on the rule of human/rational law, or whatever, and that to go about executing people without trial kinda contradicts that, so, like, y’know, you don’t want to come across as hypocritical n’all that…especially when you’re waging a pro-democracy war in the Middle East… :-"

Got me how? He’s creating a strawman. I never said it was okay. I never said it was a smart idea. I’m just talking about what happened and why.

As to the rest of your post, why are you attempting to argue with me about an issue I didn’t bring up and am not disputing? Your little condescending remarks have been noted. If possible, I’d fuck you up the ass with them.

Did I say anything about American foreign policy? Did I mention the motivations behind the 9/11 attack? Nope, pretty sure I didn’t. What I did do was talk about Osama bin Laden’s murder and why it would have happened even if we had captured him alive and put him on trial. If nothing else, your post just reinforces that point.

Reading comprehension helps.

I’m not waging a pro-democracy war in the Middle East, but the comment wasn’t exactly literal. It was only made to emphasize my point, which apparently I have to say again.

Osama bin Laden, had he been captured and brought to the United States for a trial, would have sat before a judge, had his fun little trial, and then been executed.

That’s true, but, in my view, you seem to be rationalizing the action. And if you rationalize it for bin Laden then it can be rationalized for anyone. Internationally or nationally we either respect the rule of law or we don’t. Now, out in the real world that is profoundly problematic of course but at least we have to be honest enough to admit it. If some other foreign nation had launched such an attack on American soil there would have been an uproar among American citizens, most of whom, in my opinion, don’t really have a fucking clue as to what motivates either American foreign policy in general or the policies aimed at bin Laden and Al Qaeda in particular. At least with them everything is out in the open.

This is certainly true in my opinion. But if you probe a little deeper into the world of crony capitalism, the military/terrorist industrial comples, Bilderberg, the CFR, the Trilatteral Commission etc. you will begin to put the death of bin Laden into a context that makes following stories such as this so much clearer.

Or, perhaps, somewhat less cloudy? Politics is not bullshit for nothing. There’s a reason it has to be if, in the corporate media, you are one of the ones who are paid to shovel it.

See that up there, what I just said?

“Osama bin Laden, had he been captured and brought to the United States for a trial, would have sat before a judge, had his fun little trial, and then been executed.”

That, and that alone, has been my point this entire fucking time, you fucking retards.

That’s not rationalization. It’s JUST THE WAY IT IS!!!

Jesus FUCKING Christ, can I write it in a book and slam it against your fucking head so maybe you’ll learn by osmosis?

Undoubtedly, but that’s not the point. The point is the trial, the rule of law, being able to represent your case, etc. etc. y’know, fundamental pillars of the society that’s being fought for.

Who said that’s what is being fought for? I think you need to go read iambiguous’s post up there.

Just because your average moron believes that’s what we’re fighting for doesn’t make it so, and I think most people who have put any thought into it would agree that it’s pretty obvious we’re not in these wars to spread democracy.

Okay, you got me. I was using you and your argument as the strawman to proffer my own.

It’s an issue that, in my view, must be brought up because the issue you [and the OP] brought up is really just a footnote in the whole sordid affair. In my own opinion, of course.

No, I brought it up. James Saint kept hinting at it but never really brought “the larger context” to anyone’s attention. That’s what I did.

And, of course, if we had captured bin Laden and put him on trial he’d have a chance to go into great detail about his own rendition of what truly motivates American foreign policy. Why do you suppose “military commissions” are being used on the others instead?

The last thing the American ruling class [and I don’t mean that in a Marxist sense] wants is the “war on terror” to be talked about in depth.

Am talkin’ bout the PR, mmm’kay? The official front, mmm’kay?

Just out of curiosity, why are you so incensed here? What motivates that?