Osama bin Laden is Dead.

Got me how? He’s creating a strawman. I never said it was okay. I never said it was a smart idea. I’m just talking about what happened and why.

As to the rest of your post, why are you attempting to argue with me about an issue I didn’t bring up and am not disputing? Your little condescending remarks have been noted. If possible, I’d fuck you up the ass with them.

Did I say anything about American foreign policy? Did I mention the motivations behind the 9/11 attack? Nope, pretty sure I didn’t. What I did do was talk about Osama bin Laden’s murder and why it would have happened even if we had captured him alive and put him on trial. If nothing else, your post just reinforces that point.

Reading comprehension helps.

I’m not waging a pro-democracy war in the Middle East, but the comment wasn’t exactly literal. It was only made to emphasize my point, which apparently I have to say again.

Osama bin Laden, had he been captured and brought to the United States for a trial, would have sat before a judge, had his fun little trial, and then been executed.

That’s true, but, in my view, you seem to be rationalizing the action. And if you rationalize it for bin Laden then it can be rationalized for anyone. Internationally or nationally we either respect the rule of law or we don’t. Now, out in the real world that is profoundly problematic of course but at least we have to be honest enough to admit it. If some other foreign nation had launched such an attack on American soil there would have been an uproar among American citizens, most of whom, in my opinion, don’t really have a fucking clue as to what motivates either American foreign policy in general or the policies aimed at bin Laden and Al Qaeda in particular. At least with them everything is out in the open.

This is certainly true in my opinion. But if you probe a little deeper into the world of crony capitalism, the military/terrorist industrial comples, Bilderberg, the CFR, the Trilatteral Commission etc. you will begin to put the death of bin Laden into a context that makes following stories such as this so much clearer.

Or, perhaps, somewhat less cloudy? Politics is not bullshit for nothing. There’s a reason it has to be if, in the corporate media, you are one of the ones who are paid to shovel it.

See that up there, what I just said?

“Osama bin Laden, had he been captured and brought to the United States for a trial, would have sat before a judge, had his fun little trial, and then been executed.”

That, and that alone, has been my point this entire fucking time, you fucking retards.

That’s not rationalization. It’s JUST THE WAY IT IS!!!

Jesus FUCKING Christ, can I write it in a book and slam it against your fucking head so maybe you’ll learn by osmosis?

Undoubtedly, but that’s not the point. The point is the trial, the rule of law, being able to represent your case, etc. etc. y’know, fundamental pillars of the society that’s being fought for.

Who said that’s what is being fought for? I think you need to go read iambiguous’s post up there.

Just because your average moron believes that’s what we’re fighting for doesn’t make it so, and I think most people who have put any thought into it would agree that it’s pretty obvious we’re not in these wars to spread democracy.

Okay, you got me. I was using you and your argument as the strawman to proffer my own.

It’s an issue that, in my view, must be brought up because the issue you [and the OP] brought up is really just a footnote in the whole sordid affair. In my own opinion, of course.

No, I brought it up. James Saint kept hinting at it but never really brought “the larger context” to anyone’s attention. That’s what I did.

And, of course, if we had captured bin Laden and put him on trial he’d have a chance to go into great detail about his own rendition of what truly motivates American foreign policy. Why do you suppose “military commissions” are being used on the others instead?

The last thing the American ruling class [and I don’t mean that in a Marxist sense] wants is the “war on terror” to be talked about in depth.

Am talkin’ bout the PR, mmm’kay? The official front, mmm’kay?

Just out of curiosity, why are you so incensed here? What motivates that?

Do you really have to ask? I say what I think and I’ve got people throwing arguments at me that don’t have anything to do with what I said, because they’re based on either misinterpretations or somebody just pulling something out of their ass and pretending I said it.

Do you think the official front is important?

Why shouldn’t we try a little honesty for once?

Okay, but most of what we say eventually has to be put in a larger and larger context. And surely that is the case regarding the killing of bin Laden. There is a context even larger than my own: What is it about human nature that makes these things not only possible but prevalent throughout our history?

Anyway, to me you seem to be more pissed off at others for not agreeing with you [or not agreeing with how you believe the argument should be framed] than you do with the argument itself.

I do that sometimes myself. But then I’m a polemist. It’s all calculated.

I really don’t give a shit if others agree with me or not. I did not come into this thread to discuss a personal opinion. It’s not about whether I agree or disagree. I’m just talking about something that happened, and leaving out how I feel about it. Still didn’t get that? How many more times should I say it? 100? 1,000? What will it take?

And I don’t give a shit about how the argument is “framed”, whatever the fuck that means. I have no issue with the points you brought up other than how you misinterpreted what I said and then related your points to that misinterpretation.

The question I asked specifically relates to the PR aspect.

Not important, interesting. We’re talking politics after all.

I’ll agree that it’s interesting. It’s interesting to hear what they’ll come up with next. It’s also sickening, frustrating, and sometimes soul-crushing (for me, at least).

Who are you referring to - “they’ll”?

Soul crushing :laughing: You’ve invested yourself into it too much - politics is like nuclear waste, keep a safe distance.

The people who make the news, of course. It filters down from somewhere. People in political circles, I’d wager.

It’s soul-crushing to me because the nonsense is like toxic waste spreading around the entire world. Whenever I think too much or too deeply on the state of the world, whenever I consider all the proven and unproven lies our own government feeds us, whenever I ponder how many people out there are completely oblivious to anything but their own little bubble, I feel…I dunno. It’s difficult to explain. I feel like I’m going to explode, like I need to get away, like I wish the whole world would just blow up and everyone would die, I start to wonder if I shouldn’t just fucking kill myself because that’s the only way to get away from it. I feel as if my very soul is being crushed by the weight of the world.

8-[

Riiiight, I’m just going to go and stand over here instead… :arrow_right:

Yeah, you go ahead and do that.