Guilt & Pleasure

[Trevor]

Why do we refrain from indulging in all our wishes?

Assuming we have the means to do so first, but why is their hesitancy, or a sense of guilt present when we wish to "treat" ourselves?

Is this a common thing, have you experienced it, or is it a rarity, and am I just a weirdo?

[Humpty]

it's some sick propaganda shit fed to peeps by the church or by their parents or other cultural outlets.

[turtle]

it's some sick propaganda shit fed to peeps by the church or by their parents or other cultural outlets.

humpy there is some shit we shouldnt be doing....
and i am sure you are familiar with guilt and pleasure and pain...

[Humpty]

i don't know what you're saying, could you please mean something

[turtle]

i don't know what you're saying, could you please mean something

first tell me about the sick propaganda-----

[Humpty]

no, first i'm gonna tell you something else:

you have a bad habit of using words to say nothing. you should figure that out. you should figure out how to say things that mean something.

as for the propaganda, take the religious view of premarital sex. or take the popular practice of "slut-shaming". those are two great examples.

[Trevor]

Is it a Christian/religious thing, or is it something more innate?

Are we innately anti-material, or is it solely dogmatic commandment?

Would a guilt-free-pleasure-indulging-capitalist society be more of a success than our own with its Christian heritage, even though it was our own to invent the capitalist-consumerist model?

[turtle]

i wish to kll someone.....my church says no.....is that sick propaganda shit......

[Humpty]

yes, go do it

[Trevor]

i wish to kll someone.....my church says no.....is that sick propaganda shit......

A bit hyperbolic. I can't imagine that there are that many people out there lusting to go out and kill someone but are being restrained by one sole commandment.

Anyway, back on-topic...

Is it a Christian/religious thing, or is it something more innate?

Are we innately anti-material, or is it solely dogmatic commandment?

Would a guilt-free-pleasure-indulging-capitalist society be more of a success than our own with its Christian heritage, even though it was our own to invent the capitalist-consumerist model?

[turtle]

trevor it is a people thing.....most people do not ike getting kicked out of the herd, the fam, the church, the relationship.....the innate part is wanting safety from the herd.....

[Kriswest]

Everything has its price even indulgence, are you willing to pay the price for indulgence? Its really not about right or wrong, morals or ethics its about what are you willing to do or pay to indulge yourself. Gluttony , sloth self indulgence usually involve harming others, that is why they are frowned upon. Are you willing to harm other and pay the price?

[Trevor]

trevor it is a people thing.....most people do not ike getting kicked out of the herd, the fam, the church, the relationship.....the innate part is wanting safety from the herd.....

Why should it result it being kicked from the herd? Explain it.

Everything has its price even indulgence, are you willing to pay the price for indulgence? Its really not about right or wrong, morals or ethics its about what are you willing to do or pay to indulge yourself. Gluttony , sloth self indulgence usually involve harming others, that is why they are frowned upon. Are you willing to harm other and pay the price?

How is it not about morality when you go on to call it "gluttony and sloth?"

Besides the monetary price, the other price is the morality, the sins of "gluttony" and "sloth," our Chrisitan inheritance? When someone wants something, say, a new TV, this "want" is held back by a sense of guilt, why? Religion preaches against worldy possessions, yet each person desires them, and the state is practically funded by those desires, so what is this "guilt" or reluctance (when no harm to others is involved)?

BTW, I don't think harm to others is common enough, unless you mean it in a very broad sense...where it might then be meaningless.

[turtle]

trevor i think i am not answering you.....what wishes are you talking about.......are you talking about behavior or just wishes....

[Trevor]

trevor i think i am not answering you.....what wishes are you talking about.......are you talking about behavior or just wishes....

The wishes for things i.e. consumerism.

[turtle]

trevor i think i am not answering you.....what wishes are you talking about.......are you talking about behavior or just wishes....

The wishes for things i.e. consumerism.

we need to get personal......do you want to write about me or you...otherwise we will get nowhere..

[Trevor]

we need to get personal......do you want to write about me or you...otherwise we will get nowhere..

If you wish to talk of your own experience, then go ahead.

I don't think the subject has to be personal though, I think it's a general thing, which is why I want to know (in detail) if it's religious hangover or not...

[Kriswest]

Everything has its price even indulgence, are you willing to pay the price for indulgence? Its really not about right or wrong, morals or ethics its about what are you willing to do or pay to indulge yourself. Gluttony , sloth self indulgence usually involve harming others, that is why they are frowned upon. Are you willing to harm other and pay the price?

How is it not about morality when you go on to call it "gluttony and sloth?"

Besides the monetary price, the other price is the morality, the sins of "gluttony" and "sloth," our Chrisitan inheritance? When someone wants something, say, a new TV, this "want" is held back by a sense of guilt, why? Religion preaches against worldy possessions, yet each person desires them, and the state is practically funded by those desires, so what is this "guilt" or reluctance (when no harm to others is involved)?

BTW, I don't think harm to others is common enough, unless you mean it in a very broad sense...where it might then be meaningless.

Gluttony and sloth are not biblical words. You are just equating them to religion. When i want a new TV I get a new TV, I am not held back by some crap about possessions being wrong. Its not religion its about common sense. If I want that new TV what will it cost me in the long run? I purchase it and have no savings left, my car may fall apart. So where is the morality or guilt in that. Its just a price i have to be willing to pay. If people choose to play the religious card and claim guilt on that basis then I see that person using religion as an excuse to not make a decision. Its so much easier to allow something else or someone else make your decisions. Religion is a very good scapegoat.

[Trevor]

So you don't think "guilt" over consuming is common then?

Might just be me.

On the one hand I lean towards ascetic values, on the other I want unecessary things...

[turtle]

So you don't think "guilt" over consuming is common then?

Might just be me.

On the one hand I lean towards ascetic values, on the other I want unecessary things...

it is a personal thing.....

[Trevor]

it is a personal thing.....

That's not a sufficient answer to a subject of conflicting ideologies, concepts, and values!

Fuck it.

[turtle]

it is a personal thing.....

That's not a sufficient answer to a subject of conflicting ideologies, concepts, and values!

Fuck it.

your post sounded like you wanted personal information....i thought you were trying to put it
in general terms so that you could see if you were different....

[Trevor]

your post sounded like you wanted personal information....

Eh? Would that be when I said, "I don't think the subject has to be personal though?"

i thought you were trying to put it in general terms so that you could see if you were different....

No, general terms, because I wanted to see if there were any connections...but it's too much hard work...

[turtle]

you are giving up too soon---

what connections are you talking about.....

[uglypeoplefucking]

Trevor, is your question whether or not there is moral virtue in asceticism? or are you operating on the presumption that there is not?

I want to know (in detail) if it's religious hangover or not...

i don't think it's primarily a religious hangover, i think having guilt for indulging makes intuitive sense - hedonism can have a lot of deleterious effects on a person and that awareness is not born of religion, but rather of having indulged and suffered the consequences, which often include a hefty dose of remorse both emotional and physical. so no, it's not strictly a religious thing, i think it can also be a practical one.