How to dismantle the mind, piece by piece

:-: means P can’t “not be itself”, but at the same time (and space, or where ?), it “can’t be itself”, so what can it be ?

I like :-:

Poor P.

In a literal sense, ^^^ is ^^^. In a symbolic sense, ^^^ is nothing, unless we agree to make it something.

In an inductive (space/time) sense, the ^^^ here isn’t the ^^^ here. In a deductive (same/different) sense, ^^^ is the same as ^^^.

Perhaps you’re confusing the multiple senses.

Two things come to mind:

  1. We decide when and how to make ^^^ the same with itself or different according to where or how or what we intend to do with it: but in a metaphysical, therefore real world, you shouldn’t distinguish, you should be above “different senses”. Oh well, just keep on doing what you want, there goes “rigid logic” out of the window;

  2. Let us agree to make P follow those laws I stated, and namely it can’t be itself and it can’t be different from itself. Now what ? But P is real, it is an Information Relationship that lives in a metaphysical world, an infinite recursion of existence denying itself.

But, on a more general note, I know that so much philosophy in the 20th century has been imitating the Sciences, Logic, study of Languages, etc. (has evaporated into sub branches of math or logic or whatever (what am I to know, I am a drop out, ignorant who didn’t even finish high school, just saying ) ). And they have progressed, but I like this more old fashion stuff, it is more fun, you can do whatever you want with it, who cares if it is all wrong, we are not going to build Rockets with this stuff, or use it where all the real Sciences like Mathematics, Physics, etc. have a total hold on all things practical, as it is correct that it should.

Maybe I like the more “artistic”, or “poetic” aspects of some pseudo philosophy and metaphysics…

Well, ^^^ is more ^^^ than it is ***. Yeah, no need for super rigid logic, super rigid logic is inherently unnecessary and not to mention, anal retentive and… annoying. We need pragmatism, not super rigid logic and nihilism-- the same thing in my mind (I know, weird).

P can’t be anything but itself in a literal sense. You can’t just change the laws of nature.

That’s fine by me, I like that stuff too, that’s not what we’re doing here though, is it?

I never finished highschool either… or anything… anything at all.

Take a look here see–

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=175000

In electronics, If you take an inverter, the logical NOR gate, and feed the output back to the input, you effectively get A= not A. And the “physical” result is either it oscillates going back and forth between 1 and 0 or it gets stuck at some fixed intermediate value between 1 and 0, depending on the physical (random ?) details of the circuit, but most likely it would oscillate at a frequency (pretty high I imagine). So this kind of representation of the relationship vaguely reflects and suggests an “infinite recursion of existence denying itself”, as physics likes to tease us with some kinds of Metaphysical “suggestions”.

But also, this simple (one transistor circuit more or less ?) materializes in a sense that A can’t be itself, but at the same time can’t be different from itself. But you get some kind of defined behavior, it remains tractable because it is an entity made up of constituent parts, so it can just make believe it is one entity (indivisible and justice and liberty for none ?) when obviously it is not since it is made up of so many atoms, etc. and being made up of many parts it can trick the relationship and fool it easily.

Also, a person having conflicting will powers (everyone is always in these states somewhat) can easily say “I can’t be myself” and at the same time “I can’t be but myself” (go figure what the self is). Again this is because a person (or mind or brain ?) is made up of constituent parts.

But in Metaphysics, A is a completely abstract entity, just like numbers (much closer to mathematical - platonic entities, but mathematical entities are still not 100 % Metaphysical entities), no constituent parts, no extension in space or time, no nothing, simply a delimitation, an entity, an item.

And in this very real world it really can’t be either itself or different from itself so it exists in a way we can’t imagine, it is totally intractable, but we can look at it from a distance in awe, and appreciate how astounding it is.

And so tell me what is the square root of the square root of no number at all ? Invent your new symbols, go on, create a new schematic of a modified mind… show me a new design.

Sure, the statement-- There is a purple giraffe in my living room + the statement-- There is not a purple giraffe in my living room could = 1 transparent, partially (in)tangible purple giraffe living in my living room… If my words are interpreted loosely, if strictly, then they’re nonsensical.

Kill Thought and Kill Intelligence BIG TIME. After killing Memory and getting rid of this huge pile of crap we must Kill Thought itself, get rid of this pile of crap. Along with getting rid of the deceptions of the “principle of non contradiction” and “principle of identity”, the next thing we must do is get rid of thought, this constant chatter about nothing, this noise, and its corollary logic, language, concepts, the need to “communicate” and “communications”, and also INFORMATION, that’s right the very Reciprocal Information Relationships the universe is made out of, etc. And obviously we must kill Will Power another huge pile of crap, and all of the other structures that are inhibiting us, interdicting us from being what we should not be: and that is totally free and independent Metaphysical - Meditation - Philosophical Machines. And you think they would be afraid of falling into a “contradiction” ? What a joke!

And kill and obliviate all the pain/pleasure circuits that fool of Natural Evolution forced us to have, rebel against god, rebel against the Laws of Physics, show them who the real BOSS is, be your own BOSS.

Pain is the prison guard that forces us to follow logic and thought, but the first thing we will do is get rid of any prison guard like pain forcing us along a constant predetermined path, so free of pain we will be Metaphysical Machines, Emotion and Meditation Machines, pure monolithic blocks of higher states of Existence, Philosophical entities that travel to higher states and break ever more barriers.

One interesting thing about the Technological Singularity is that it was thought that higher “Intelligence”, machines evolving ever higher states of Intelligence would design even “Smarter” ones up to oblivion and Nirvana: nothing further from the truth, the first thing they will do is get rid of Intelligence and Smarts as is counterproductive, useless, must be killed and they would go the exact opposite path: in a way stupider and stupider machines, but something way past anything we can ever imagine, and actually try to get as far away as possible from Intelligence, be as stupid as possible, the exact opposite, and activate higher states of beings, Modified Minds, they won’t waste their Time on such puny noise and chatter , on a one line program when they can directly achieve universes of Metaphysics, Emotion States, and trillions of other entities way past anything even remotely related to us. That is why the path towards the Technological Singularity is actually the Instant Singularity, just stick wires with crazy signals in brains and wild chemicals in the minds and brains as randomly as possible, be as irrational and unreasonable as possible, it will be achieved (as in a faith thingy …).

Now please, design me a new schematic of a possible Modified Mind, one of those that the Automated Modified Mind Generator computers is producing.

Hahahaha, I liked you better when you were talking politics and labour obselescence 9, from whence this insane 180 degree turn came?

Why 9, why do away with thought and communication. My guess is, people weren’t taking your ideas seriously, so you gave up.

I got tired of asking the governments worldwide for CHEAP RENTS and FREE SALARIES, Complete Mass Transit systems in the form of BUSES (especially for the USA, but Obama said no dice jose’), and Rockets to Mars, and trillions of skyscrapers on Mars, trillions of skyscrapers on Jupiter and in the SUN, so I changed topic. They just won’t give it to me, so I had to give up. But they said that maybe the “hobby factory” and “free work” idea may have a chance, go figure…

I found this interesting block of text that I think I wrote (or was that someone else, who knows…?) when I still believed in James Kunstler’s PEAK OIL, Resource Scarcity, everything is ending mythology. I then meditated upon these concepts for a few years and switched my position as I now think that this myth just serves the Dominating Capitalist Class (this language makes me feel a bit nostalgic, it reminds me of when I was a hippy in the 1970s “fighting the system”, cool, who would have ever thought that I would be right back to all of this crap again ? Go figure…).

From:

viewtopic.php?style=1&f=3&t=163929

"Those few that still think, being that thinking will be one of the first activities to end, given that its “energy return on energy invested would be hugely negative”, being that people couldn’t manipulate or change anything anymore, so thought would mostly disappear, but those that would think that there was once running water, free water coming out of a faucet would be flabbergasted and amazed. Just having water, drinking some dirty polluted water from the crowded wells, will seem like absolute paradise, and they would think, people really once had water for free ? from faucets ? they will never believe it. It is like a trillion years of technological evolution according to our “fairy tale extrapolation” of science and technology are closer to us than free water will be closer to them. A technological singularity, a virtual reality matrix is closer and more understandable to us, than just having water will be to them. Just to drink will seem like an absolute paradise after the end of free energy comes to be. There will only be a few millions left on earh after more than 6 billion just starved and died. People got sick and died, there would be no doctors or “health care”, another absolute science fiction item that people would never believe existed.

People will sleep in cars, all the old rusting chevys and buicks, those will be their homes since the old wood homes will have all been burnt to keep warm, and they will think “these once moved ?” how on earth is it even conceivable !?!? our beds once moved by that magic piece of iron in the hood and some mysterious black liquid ?!?! That is not even imaginable many will think. Another thing that will disappear is TIME. Time will flow ever more slowly, everything will flow in an increasingly slow motion. Why measure time, when nothing can happen ? nothing can change, all the motors are turned off, there is no more electricity, computers will be mysterious black boxes, people will look at them as some kind of mysterious magic boxes of the past, maybe some alien civilization left them, who knows what they did or how they “worked”. Why, did things actually “work” once ? No all this can’t be true, it must be some god that came down to the earth and describe a science fiction - metaphysical paradise, it must have all been invented by some mind going crazy because it didn’t drink some water after a few days."

Is philosophy superfluous? Perhaps, I suppose we preoccupy ourselves with philosophy, video games, books and the like, for our brains are programmed to and are adept at thinking, yet there’s hardly anything left worth thinking about, in terms of pragmatism, efficiency or your high/necessary energy output from low/necessary energy input. Nature tends to do away with superfluity. Perhaps we’ll evolve back into animals. Maybe we’ll end up like that movie, idiocracy.

A funny thing is that our mind really operates according to the denial of the principle of identity (that is for us often A is not A, but is A, etc.) and the principle of contradiction and every event has a cause. We are contradiction, we are an equation without any possible solution (or maybe a solution without any possible equation), we are emotion driven machines, rage driven machines, mostly hate driven machines (we love to hate more than anything else), we are pure contradiction always, confusion, we make up all kinds of causes and effects, all kinds logical errors, we never know what we are doing. We are many contrasting will powers in one, fighting each other, we are fights, that is our essence we define ourselves according to the fight. We want to dominate others and everything with our will power, we are a total mess and will always be no matter what. That is why people like to look at the old movies of Hitler with his huge army marching, ready to express contradiction, war, as in A against B, the fight is the representation and expression of contradiction coming alive, in real life.

And then again that is why philosophers started to try to get out of all of the confusion, irrationality, that is why they had to state that A is A, they had to be sure, a chair is a chair, because in our mind it is and it isn’t, we are vague, confusing and confusion. That is why logic and mathematics had to be carefully constructed, it is not obvious for us, we are always making all kinds of mistakes, all kinds of errors, confusing cause with effect, making up and mixing up all kinds of causes with effects, with events, etc.

But a funny thing happens: for us all three principles don’t really apply, for us, no matter what, A is not A, contradictions abound, we are contradiction always, pure contradiction, and events have any cause we want and no cause (we connect any 2 items and assign them cause and effect as we please, we make up all kinds of things) , etc. But at a second level, these principles are true and useful and have been successfully applied in technology and science, have allowed us to progress and get things straight in many endeavors. But on an even higher and Metaphysical level, these principles are no longer true again, they resemble what we think, but they are pure abstract entities that are too distant from us, we can only look at them in awe and bewilderment.

So in this sense, Physics likes to tease us with Metaphysical suggestions.
3 levels, 1) Principle of Identity is false (our level), 2) Principle of identity is true (math - science - logic level) 3) Principle of Identity is false again (metaphysical level).

But we will construct Modified Minds, we will insert huge slabs of steel and iron in the Sun to guide the plasma of the Sun from the core to the Surface through Super Computers using High Energy Plasmas to create digital calculations that will serve to produce 10^100 modified minds a second (I like big numbers). Steel bound, Iron bound, Sun bound Automated Modified Minds generators. The Sun an entire supercomputer, it will decompose the structure of equality, the structure of numbers and existence, these metaphysical machines will create ever more abstractions and symbols, touching sensations, new emotional contraptions tied into the structure of numbers and square roots, no end in sight, higher and higher states. (as in “dreamer in the chair that really fits you”, reminds me of what the YES were thinking in “Starship Trooper” or “Close to the Edge”).

Kill information, the less we know the better, misunderstand everything, kill god, kill mother(fkr ?) nature, kill the laws of physics, get them on the run, chase them with a baseball bat and crack their heads open, stick em stick em, show them who the boss is, be your own boss, be the boss, you are the boss, you can do it man, just do it.

Now please, show me another design and schematic of a modified mind, I found this one, it fell on earth from the Sun:

WH£HH$H$-.:::$$J%%%çç%°%é%*%%%;%%%Mmm%=%=M%MMM&==MM$M$$M$$=X B>:Z:;Z;;>>

Wow, who knows what is going on in there, it must be incredible…

And especially kill EMOTION and FEELINGS, kill all of these puny predetermined 1 transistor circuits, puny 1 line programs, we will create abstract emotions that interact way past anything imaginable. Kill life and death, but especially life, as that is much more predetermined , death is always superior, kill FREEDOM, kill everything we think and go into your metaphysical world…

Be crazy, who cares.

I was just thinking (as usual, I hate thought, KILL THOUGHT real fast !), that you really only need to express ( A = A ), as the other principle, that of non contradiction should emerge from this automatically, if A isn’t A then ( A = not A ) but you can’t have that relationship.

Ok, but then why did they have to express that other relationship separately ? Maybe because ( A = A ), but if this isn’t so, then something else, then some metaphysical relationship applies which isn’t ( A <> not A ), but isn’t expressed in any way, or maybe can be expressed with some new symbol ? Another interesting Metaphysical Relationship, another abstract, unknown, intractable relationship.

They had to explicitly write down:

  1. ( A = A )

  2. ( A <> not A )

But why did they have to write down 2) ( A <> not A ) ?

So some possible new relationships : (?)

( A = A ) is not true, but A is something we can’t know.

( A = A ) is not true but this can be expressed as ( A = not A ). So this is the example of the item that can’t be itself, but can’t be not itself, the “infinite recursion of existence denying itself”.

( A = A ) is not true, but ( A :;:; A ). What is :;:; ? Something really far out, man !

( A = A ) is not true but this can be expressed as ( not A = A ), but this is different from expressing it as ( A = not A). So what is ( not A = A) ? Something really far out, man !

So even the simple identity relationship becomes an infinite recursion of metaphysical symbols, concepts abstractions expressing themselves to the vanishing point.

Why don’t you just accpet Jesus and get it over with for Christ’s sake, that’ll cure your excess thought.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2STDH14aJVk&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyJI9xDUYV8&feature=related

lol, this shits fucking hilarious.

I don’t know, maybe this shits better than philosophy, are we missing out?

Let’s keep things on-topic… at least, insofar as this particular thread permits.

We are insanity, lets face it: any other culture and model of interaction between a group of people can be seen as insane compared to any other, everyone can see the other as completely wrong, or primitive, there is no end to how many contrasts, misunderstandings, etc. there can be as someone said somewhere about the European man seeing all other “primitive” cultures as trash and “sinners” during the 15th to 18th century, etc. This is because man is an infinitely programmable machine, any input can be tied to any output, any model, thought system, any program can be inserted in his puny mind, and if the emotion, feeling system is “satisfied”, then he will be satisfied no matter what the external behavior be (or internal thought patterns, emotion and feeling patterns whatever, and how they are all arbitrarily connected between each other).

So you can have monks that spend all their lives just looking at symbols on books, that is everything, nothing else is needed, that occupies 100 % of their time from 0 to 100 years old, or like the muslims shaking their head while they read the koran, they invented a program of behavior, they are executing it, they are 100 % satisfied, they are ok, their metaphysical soul is “saved”, etc.

Or Hitler and his army fighting Russia (totally insane, didn’t they just see how big the country was ?!) so there is no end to insanity, as insanity can be any behavior at all, since it is all arbitrary, cultural stuff, fluff, optional. Man is the optional machine.

Any thought can change instantly, any situation can change instantly, can be a tool for another thought, or itself, or someone, any misunderstanding is possible, nay, we only constantly misunderstand everything, we never can win, there is no hope for us, or anything can go backwards, upside down, who knows.

Dependent and independent, we have large chunks of ourselves that just talk to ourselves as in all the subsystems of our cells, chemical reactions, etc, but then the global item must interact with something that “challenges” it, the independent outside world. So we search out the contradiction, the independence, the challenge, but want to win, but can’t just be stay put, but then we don’t want the challenge, and so forth and so on. So Man is insane from the outset, is a quirk, is a totally contradictory machine, he will kill himself off in some war, there are no justifications to any social model, any justice system, any rules and laws, we are doomed.

Yeah, going back to the pessimistic view of:

viewtopic.php?t=149592

viewtopic.php?style=1&f=3&t=163929

viewtopic.php?style=1&f=3&t=163669

viewtopic.php?style=1&f=3&t=162953

My take on it is that of total cultural relativism achieved, total metaphysical relativism achieved in that any modified mind can create a new universe.

But as usual, the metaphysical impossible problems will always pop up: like if there are no absolutes how can you talk about anything ? So what is it, who knows, another intractable problem, another infinite recursion of dependent entities depending on non dependent entities, absolutes based on non absolutes and then again based on absolutes; an organism needs a challenge to feel or be alive to interact, but wants to win, but needs the challenge, but wants stability and security, now what ? etc.

We are complete contradiction, complete insanity no matter what, it may be better to believe in a religion, at least all is solved forever.

Now show me a new modified mind from the Sun, one that disconnects numbers from themselves, one that creates new elementary particles directly from symbols and logic from atoms and electrons, differential equations that must find “emotional - sentimental” solutions, go on, mix it up, mix it all up, invent all you want, the more far out the better, go out and play until mommy calls you in for dinner.

But most of all: Everything must be compared to the state of DEATH, maybe that will clear it up.

Well 9, what do you want to do?

Do you want to reprogram or deprogram us?

What’s your perogative… what’s your MO?