Why 9, why do away with thought and communication. My guess is, people weren’t taking your ideas seriously, so you gave up.
I got tired of asking the governments worldwide for CHEAP RENTS and FREE SALARIES, Complete Mass Transit systems in the form of BUSES (especially for the USA, but Obama said no dice jose’), and Rockets to Mars, and trillions of skyscrapers on Mars, trillions of skyscrapers on Jupiter and in the SUN, so I changed topic. They just won’t give it to me, so I had to give up. But they said that maybe the “hobby factory” and “free work” idea may have a chance, go figure…
I found this interesting block of text that I think I wrote (or was that someone else, who knows…?) when I still believed in James Kunstler’s PEAK OIL, Resource Scarcity, everything is ending mythology. I then meditated upon these concepts for a few years and switched my position as I now think that this myth just serves the Dominating Capitalist Class (this language makes me feel a bit nostalgic, it reminds me of when I was a hippy in the 1970s “fighting the system”, cool, who would have ever thought that I would be right back to all of this crap again ? Go figure…).
From:
viewtopic.php?style=1&f=3&t=163929
"Those few that still think, being that thinking will be one of the first activities to end, given that its “energy return on energy invested would be hugely negative”, being that people couldn’t manipulate or change anything anymore, so thought would mostly disappear, but those that would think that there was once running water, free water coming out of a faucet would be flabbergasted and amazed. Just having water, drinking some dirty polluted water from the crowded wells, will seem like absolute paradise, and they would think, people really once had water for free ? from faucets ? they will never believe it. It is like a trillion years of technological evolution according to our “fairy tale extrapolation” of science and technology are closer to us than free water will be closer to them. A technological singularity, a virtual reality matrix is closer and more understandable to us, than just having water will be to them. Just to drink will seem like an absolute paradise after the end of free energy comes to be. There will only be a few millions left on earh after more than 6 billion just starved and died. People got sick and died, there would be no doctors or “health care”, another absolute science fiction item that people would never believe existed.
People will sleep in cars, all the old rusting chevys and buicks, those will be their homes since the old wood homes will have all been burnt to keep warm, and they will think “these once moved ?” how on earth is it even conceivable !?!? our beds once moved by that magic piece of iron in the hood and some mysterious black liquid ?!?! That is not even imaginable many will think. Another thing that will disappear is TIME. Time will flow ever more slowly, everything will flow in an increasingly slow motion. Why measure time, when nothing can happen ? nothing can change, all the motors are turned off, there is no more electricity, computers will be mysterious black boxes, people will look at them as some kind of mysterious magic boxes of the past, maybe some alien civilization left them, who knows what they did or how they “worked”. Why, did things actually “work” once ? No all this can’t be true, it must be some god that came down to the earth and describe a science fiction - metaphysical paradise, it must have all been invented by some mind going crazy because it didn’t drink some water after a few days."
Is philosophy superfluous? Perhaps, I suppose we preoccupy ourselves with philosophy, video games, books and the like, for our brains are programmed to and are adept at thinking, yet there’s hardly anything left worth thinking about, in terms of pragmatism, efficiency or your high/necessary energy output from low/necessary energy input. Nature tends to do away with superfluity. Perhaps we’ll evolve back into animals. Maybe we’ll end up like that movie, idiocracy.
A funny thing is that our mind really operates according to the denial of the principle of identity (that is for us often A is not A, but is A, etc.) and the principle of contradiction and every event has a cause. We are contradiction, we are an equation without any possible solution (or maybe a solution without any possible equation), we are emotion driven machines, rage driven machines, mostly hate driven machines (we love to hate more than anything else), we are pure contradiction always, confusion, we make up all kinds of causes and effects, all kinds logical errors, we never know what we are doing. We are many contrasting will powers in one, fighting each other, we are fights, that is our essence we define ourselves according to the fight. We want to dominate others and everything with our will power, we are a total mess and will always be no matter what. That is why people like to look at the old movies of Hitler with his huge army marching, ready to express contradiction, war, as in A against B, the fight is the representation and expression of contradiction coming alive, in real life.
And then again that is why philosophers started to try to get out of all of the confusion, irrationality, that is why they had to state that A is A, they had to be sure, a chair is a chair, because in our mind it is and it isn’t, we are vague, confusing and confusion. That is why logic and mathematics had to be carefully constructed, it is not obvious for us, we are always making all kinds of mistakes, all kinds of errors, confusing cause with effect, making up and mixing up all kinds of causes with effects, with events, etc.
But a funny thing happens: for us all three principles don’t really apply, for us, no matter what, A is not A, contradictions abound, we are contradiction always, pure contradiction, and events have any cause we want and no cause (we connect any 2 items and assign them cause and effect as we please, we make up all kinds of things) , etc. But at a second level, these principles are true and useful and have been successfully applied in technology and science, have allowed us to progress and get things straight in many endeavors. But on an even higher and Metaphysical level, these principles are no longer true again, they resemble what we think, but they are pure abstract entities that are too distant from us, we can only look at them in awe and bewilderment.
So in this sense, Physics likes to tease us with Metaphysical suggestions.
3 levels, 1) Principle of Identity is false (our level), 2) Principle of identity is true (math - science - logic level) 3) Principle of Identity is false again (metaphysical level).
But we will construct Modified Minds, we will insert huge slabs of steel and iron in the Sun to guide the plasma of the Sun from the core to the Surface through Super Computers using High Energy Plasmas to create digital calculations that will serve to produce 10^100 modified minds a second (I like big numbers). Steel bound, Iron bound, Sun bound Automated Modified Minds generators. The Sun an entire supercomputer, it will decompose the structure of equality, the structure of numbers and existence, these metaphysical machines will create ever more abstractions and symbols, touching sensations, new emotional contraptions tied into the structure of numbers and square roots, no end in sight, higher and higher states. (as in “dreamer in the chair that really fits you”, reminds me of what the YES were thinking in “Starship Trooper” or “Close to the Edge”).
Kill information, the less we know the better, misunderstand everything, kill god, kill mother(fkr ?) nature, kill the laws of physics, get them on the run, chase them with a baseball bat and crack their heads open, stick em stick em, show them who the boss is, be your own boss, be the boss, you are the boss, you can do it man, just do it.
Now please, show me another design and schematic of a modified mind, I found this one, it fell on earth from the Sun:
WH£HH$H$-.:::$$J%%%çç%°%é%*%%%;%%%Mmm%=%=M%MMM&==MM$M$$M$$=X B>:Z:;Z;;>>
Wow, who knows what is going on in there, it must be incredible…
And especially kill EMOTION and FEELINGS, kill all of these puny predetermined 1 transistor circuits, puny 1 line programs, we will create abstract emotions that interact way past anything imaginable. Kill life and death, but especially life, as that is much more predetermined , death is always superior, kill FREEDOM, kill everything we think and go into your metaphysical world…
Be crazy, who cares.
I was just thinking (as usual, I hate thought, KILL THOUGHT real fast !), that you really only need to express ( A = A ), as the other principle, that of non contradiction should emerge from this automatically, if A isn’t A then ( A = not A ) but you can’t have that relationship.
Ok, but then why did they have to express that other relationship separately ? Maybe because ( A = A ), but if this isn’t so, then something else, then some metaphysical relationship applies which isn’t ( A <> not A ), but isn’t expressed in any way, or maybe can be expressed with some new symbol ? Another interesting Metaphysical Relationship, another abstract, unknown, intractable relationship.
They had to explicitly write down:
-
( A = A )
-
( A <> not A )
But why did they have to write down 2) ( A <> not A ) ?
So some possible new relationships : (?)
( A = A ) is not true, but A is something we can’t know.
( A = A ) is not true but this can be expressed as ( A = not A ). So this is the example of the item that can’t be itself, but can’t be not itself, the “infinite recursion of existence denying itself”.
( A = A ) is not true, but ( A :;:; A ). What is :;:; ? Something really far out, man !
( A = A ) is not true but this can be expressed as ( not A = A ), but this is different from expressing it as ( A = not A). So what is ( not A = A) ? Something really far out, man !
So even the simple identity relationship becomes an infinite recursion of metaphysical symbols, concepts abstractions expressing themselves to the vanishing point.
Why don’t you just accpet Jesus and get it over with for Christ’s sake, that’ll cure your excess thought.
lol, this shits fucking hilarious.
I don’t know, maybe this shits better than philosophy, are we missing out?
Let’s keep things on-topic… at least, insofar as this particular thread permits.
We are insanity, lets face it: any other culture and model of interaction between a group of people can be seen as insane compared to any other, everyone can see the other as completely wrong, or primitive, there is no end to how many contrasts, misunderstandings, etc. there can be as someone said somewhere about the European man seeing all other “primitive” cultures as trash and “sinners” during the 15th to 18th century, etc. This is because man is an infinitely programmable machine, any input can be tied to any output, any model, thought system, any program can be inserted in his puny mind, and if the emotion, feeling system is “satisfied”, then he will be satisfied no matter what the external behavior be (or internal thought patterns, emotion and feeling patterns whatever, and how they are all arbitrarily connected between each other).
So you can have monks that spend all their lives just looking at symbols on books, that is everything, nothing else is needed, that occupies 100 % of their time from 0 to 100 years old, or like the muslims shaking their head while they read the koran, they invented a program of behavior, they are executing it, they are 100 % satisfied, they are ok, their metaphysical soul is “saved”, etc.
Or Hitler and his army fighting Russia (totally insane, didn’t they just see how big the country was ?!) so there is no end to insanity, as insanity can be any behavior at all, since it is all arbitrary, cultural stuff, fluff, optional. Man is the optional machine.
Any thought can change instantly, any situation can change instantly, can be a tool for another thought, or itself, or someone, any misunderstanding is possible, nay, we only constantly misunderstand everything, we never can win, there is no hope for us, or anything can go backwards, upside down, who knows.
Dependent and independent, we have large chunks of ourselves that just talk to ourselves as in all the subsystems of our cells, chemical reactions, etc, but then the global item must interact with something that “challenges” it, the independent outside world. So we search out the contradiction, the independence, the challenge, but want to win, but can’t just be stay put, but then we don’t want the challenge, and so forth and so on. So Man is insane from the outset, is a quirk, is a totally contradictory machine, he will kill himself off in some war, there are no justifications to any social model, any justice system, any rules and laws, we are doomed.
Yeah, going back to the pessimistic view of:
viewtopic.php?style=1&f=3&t=163929
viewtopic.php?style=1&f=3&t=163669
viewtopic.php?style=1&f=3&t=162953
My take on it is that of total cultural relativism achieved, total metaphysical relativism achieved in that any modified mind can create a new universe.
But as usual, the metaphysical impossible problems will always pop up: like if there are no absolutes how can you talk about anything ? So what is it, who knows, another intractable problem, another infinite recursion of dependent entities depending on non dependent entities, absolutes based on non absolutes and then again based on absolutes; an organism needs a challenge to feel or be alive to interact, but wants to win, but needs the challenge, but wants stability and security, now what ? etc.
We are complete contradiction, complete insanity no matter what, it may be better to believe in a religion, at least all is solved forever.
Now show me a new modified mind from the Sun, one that disconnects numbers from themselves, one that creates new elementary particles directly from symbols and logic from atoms and electrons, differential equations that must find “emotional - sentimental” solutions, go on, mix it up, mix it all up, invent all you want, the more far out the better, go out and play until mommy calls you in for dinner.
But most of all: Everything must be compared to the state of DEATH, maybe that will clear it up.
Well 9, what do you want to do?
Do you want to reprogram or deprogram us?
What’s your perogative… what’s your MO?
Is science, philosophy, religion, politics and education… superfluous, would we better off a blank slate, or do you want to invent a new program altogether, like, intuitive emotivism, where you come up with your own paradigm intuitively, emotively and attempt to convert others by appealing to their intuitions and emotions, as opposed to their extuition and reason, or perhaps we could ask a horse, 1 neh for no, 2 nehs for yes or we could philosophize whilst high on drugs.
We could call it, Pharmosophy.
David Icke thinks the moon is a hollow, artificial structure of some kind.
Personally, I think the universe is contracting, no, not personally, it is contracting, and you’re going to hell if you don’t believe me. At the center of it lies the Big Black, the largest object in the universe. It’s so large, every other object rotates 'round it. It takes our earth 1 trillion years to circle it. Someday, the Big Black will absorb everything. You know, in a way, if you look at all my posts, I have been employing something like your epistemosophy, however, I didn’t abandon logic, just mixed it with some other ingredients, but perhaps I should, it would be more exciting, neh, or I could employ a quirky kind of logic.
I was looking back at some posts about god, and noticed how many metaphysical problems and concepts are aggregated in this container. So the concept of god aggregates, puts together in one entity, in one delimitation many metaphysical problems, that in Metaphysics are distinct or seperate (or maybe something in between, another infinite recursion). Like he can contradict himself but also not, he can exist but also not, he can etc. Does he exist or not ? So many impossible problems can discharge their mystery in this concept of god, since these oddball problems are present with us in life no matter what, like absolutes based on non absolutes, etc. And Matter and Mass Energy like to tease us with suggestions of metaphysical problems.
Check out:
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=149592&start=25
viewtopic.php?style=1&f=5&t=149761&start=0
viewtopic.php?style=1&f=5&t=149458
viewtopic.php?style=1&f=5&t=149550
But Metaphysics just leaves these “problems” (are they even problems or experiences ?) suspended nowhere, it doesn’t have a hidden social agenda of power like religion, but the religious clowns highjack some metaphysics, put the mystery in god, the believers are confused and awed and bewildered and thus they believe. The religion operates it’s simple 1 transistor circuit, mostly you wil be punished, pain forever, in fact religion is just psychological hate and fear in people, but using some metaphysics, it is just pure hate and violence, they can express how much they would love to torture forever people in hell with this, how much they desire to inflict pure pain. What insanity.
But especially all of those religious structures trickle through society and the ruling class love these structures since everything can be put in this religious framework, you are fired, you are not competitive, you are lazy, you are not innovative, hence punishment, etc.
But real philosophy and metaphysics has no social agenda, is not a social endeavor, it is pure astounding awe at all of the infinite recursions our mind and logic produce but can’t solve. You can’t do anything with it, it ha no goal or use, it is a total void, that is why it is so great.
Logic is kind of overrated, a waste of time, all that arguing, I was never able to convince anyone of anything, from now on I’m just going to proceed in constructing my elaborate, idiosyncratic theories and discuss them, not debate them, especially not with conventional logic. I don’t know if that’s what you intended for me to derive from your thread, but, that’s what I got out of it.
But most of all, all of those metaphysical problems that would be dismissed as not real, or not logical, when applied to god become real, the believers of god will go to any length to convince anyone and will find any way to justify any absurd logic, like god is everybody but also not, he feels the pain of all in hell, but also the pleasure of all in heaven and earth, and you can go on forever with all of the contradictions present in god and religion.
Everyone justifies god as being able to be contradictory, but Metaphysics and Philosophy can’t be, otherwise it is trash, not valid.
But it is the other way around, the contradictions of Metaphysics and Philosophy are the only kinds valid, those of religion are simply people expressing their will power and power structures.
Yeah, so long as it’s internally consistent, right, no need for correspondence, I getcha.