the four basic truths [for most of us]

When I observe how people tend to use the word truth, it seems to represent the (wrong) presumptions that there is something absolutely unquestionable and its common to everybody, everywhere, without exception.

In other words, people who are interested in truth want (consciously or not) something absolutely sure, reliable, dependable, no matter what. And it’s probably reflecting our subconscious fear of uncertainty.

The irony is out thought is the mechanism based on the presmption that we can obtain certainty, but to have certainty means there needs to be the potential for uncertainty at the same time.

In short, without uncertainty, we can’t be certain.
But to be absolutely certain, there shouldn’t be any potential for uncertainty.
So, the desire of our mind for truth, the desire to be absolutely certain, is self defeating endeavor from the beginning.

Any truth is a limited and conditional one, not absolute, so as other representation of certainty such as knowledge, moral, reality, gods, rights, and so on.

If we realize the conditional and limited nature of any certainty (due to the relative nature of any thought, evaluation, and even awareness), we would loose interests in things like truth, moral, etc.

However, as we have multi-layered awareness/mind, some would realize this only in the surface layer of the mind and subconscious and emotional layer may continue to presume/imagine the absolute certainty. People like this would be tormented by the conflicting views/desires and they would suffer, till the realization sink down (or bubble up) to all layers, or till the realization is repressed by delusion (like a nihilist becoming religious after suffering a bit or more).

Personally, I think the straight path is to have the realization in all layers, as repressing the understanding is like a lie and it take (and waste) lots of energy and such lie tends to need lots of maintenance and protection/defending. Such repression makes the person fearful, not very open, and stressful, naturally.

And having the natural and logical certainty (although it’s a conditional certainty because of the nature of the thought/mind/awareness) can be satisfying enough for the desire/craving of our mind to be certain, once we prefer the straight thinking over the dependency on the false and over boosted sense of naive certainty (a. k. a. presumption, delusion, illusion, etc).

So, the truth that can be shared by any awareness with enough evaluation capability is the presumption of the truth and subsequent search/thinking for the truth is doomed to fail and it may create suffering/confusion/conflict unless the desire for the truth is satisfied/lost in all layers of the awareness.

As the awareness itself is based on the (false) sense of certainty that the awareness itself is persisting, seeking truth (and/or certainty) may shaken the foundation of awareness and cause the perceived reality of the awareness to be less solid/persistent.
It means the awareness is less tied (to the given, or all, perception/detection of “reality”) and fluid and free, but it also means everything would be less sure and anything can happen, which can be fun and interesting, as well as pretty scary if there is any remaining hint of desire for the (delusional) absolute certainty.

Nah,

Please read this article, which may help you sort out some of your confusions; a few of which I’ll highlight below…
Nah’s article about improving your thinking

You’ve named 3 different components of stock conceptions of what truth is, (which I’ve highlighted with different colors), all of which are often mutually inconsistent—and yet you mash them together as if they weren’t, and as if a thinking person wouldn’t realize it. Hence why I cite the article above. I think it has something to do with being clear and precise.

Sometimes, it’s possible to be certain about something, and uncertain about something else—which is totally unrelated. There is tons of potential for uncertaintly about whether my car will start—that doesn’t take away from my certainty that 2+2=4. Does it for you?

I cannot count that high. Besides, of the seven environmental acquisition systems of the human body, only 4 of them are form based, the remaining 3 are material based.

So, that makes 4 truths and 3 lies, which puts me 6 more than I am.

I can’t believe how egotistical you guys are! :wink: Honestly–how about truths from a woman’s pov:

Birth
School (maybe)
Having children
Work
Raising children
First system breakdown
Retirement
Seeing the process start again with grandchildren
Staying healthy because of your continued responsibilities (to self, husband, children, and grandchildren)
Death due to final breakdown of other systems.

and, of course, there are taxes! :smiley:

I tried for some time to get an answer to this. Glad to see I’m not the only one who wonders. :slight_smile:

Yeah, I know it’s Heidegger’s terminology and I could just look that up for myself, but I can’t be sure that iam means the same thing.

I think he does. What transcends dasein is then what transcends the individual’s freedom—what he cannot escape.

You are a hero.

Lol, I stand corrected.

Then why doesn’t he just say so and have done with it?

I think even Heidegger had problems with the word he’d coined, didn’t he? I think Fuse’s question is perfectly legitimate.

Oh, you seem to be out of focus, here.
Think about something common among these, rather than focusing on differences/inconsistencies.
It should be an easy thing to do for a thinking person.

It seems you are out of focus, again.

I was talking about the nature of the sense of certainty.
To have the sense of certainty. there should be a room for the sense of uncertainty.
But to have the absolute sense of certainty, there should not be any room for the uncertainty.

What our mind wants is the lack of uncertainty, in my opinion,
But the act of seeking (including seeking certainty) is inherently based on the presumption of uncertainty.

Ok. I’ve arrived at (arguably) classical logic and no other form of logic, and basic arithmetic, and no other kind of math. And this makes what you said above patently false.
Reasoning: I’m interested in truth all the time, about medicine, about ethics, about fixing my car, about nutrition, etc… Nobody fucking cares if the truth about what’s healthy to eat applies absolutely to someone else—or even to themselves when they’re a bit older! When I’m fixing my car I don’t fucking care if I’m absolutely sure of every step and detail—as long as it works. When I think “killing is wrong”, and believe it’s a true statement, that doesn’t mean I think it holds no matter what—it might be false in cases of self-defence—but that doesn’t make it any less true in other cases.

In a nutshell: When you actually think about what your first sentence says, it makes you look like someone blindfolded and swinging at a straw man pinata that’s no where near any reasonable position. (Please don’t try and tell me that I have a subconscious fear of classical logic and basic arithmetic being false when I’m grocery shopping or in the driveway fixing my car).

Excuse me while I wipe up the coffee I just spat all over myself.

Hmm…

I have noted my own rendition of dasein countless times in these forums.

Again, below is a basic description.

It revolves around the extent to which something pertains to all of us or is only pertinent [with precision] to a particular point of view. And you are right of course to note that in some crucial respects women and men experience differing trajectories.

[i]I am an individual…a man; yet, in turn, I am but one of 6,500,000,000 additional men and women that constitutes what is commonly called “mankind”. So, in what sense can I, as an individual, grasp my identity as separate and distinct from mankind? How do I make intelligent distinctions between my personal, psychological “self” [the me “I” know intimately from day to day], my persona [the me “I” project – often as a chameleon – in conflicting interactions with others], and my historical and ethnological self as a white male who happened adventiously to be born and raised to view reality from the perpective of a 20th century United States citizen?

How does all of this coalesce into who I think I am? And how does this description contrast with how others grasp who they think I am? Is there a way to derive an objective rendering of my true self? Can I know objectively who I am?

No, I don’t think so.

Identity is ever constructed, deconstructed and reconstructed over the years by hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of variables—some of which we had/have no choice/control regarding. We really are “thrown” into a fortuitous smorgasbord of demographic factors at birth and then molded and manipulated as children into whatever configuration of “reality” suits the cultural [and political] institutions of our time.

On the other hand:

In my view, one crucial difference between people is the extent to which they become more or less self-conscious of this. Why? Because, obviously, to the extent that they do, they can attempt to deconstruct the past and then reconstruct the future into one of their own more autonomous making.

But then what does this really mean? That is the question that has always fascinated me the most. Once I become cognizant of how profoundly problematic my “self” is, what can “I” do about it? And what are the philosophical implications of acknolwedging that identity is, by and large, an existential contraption that is always subject to change without notice? What can we “anchor” our identity to so as to make this prefabricated…fabricated…refabricated world seem less vertiginous? And, thus, more certain.

Is it any wonder that so many invent foundationalist anchors like Gods and Reason and Truth? Scriptures from one vantage point or another. Anything to keep from acknowledging just how contingent, precarious, uncertain and ultimately meaningless our lives really are.

Or, of course, is that just my foundation?[/i]

I should point out that, in part, this post is facetious. I had just been listening to The Godfathers’s classic “Birth School Work Death” when the idea of “basic truths” popped into my head.

I use the word truth here only as someone curious about those things that seem relevant to all of us.

Again, you are out of focus.
You continue to focus on the differences even though I told you to focus on the similarity.

Your “logic” is based on the wrong focus and subsequent misunderstanding.
You are uselessly shooting at something in your imagination, again.

Focus on the certainty and especially the degree of certainty you are having (at emotional level) when you consider something as truth, if you can.

You might be slightly aware of the conditional nature of evaluation at the surface of your awareness.
But a little underneath, you can be having lots of wishful/hopeful/emotional judgment of absolute flavor.
And the way you just wrote seems to show it, for example:
“Nobody fucking cares”, “I don’t fucking care”, “that doesn’t make it any less true”, “that’s no where near any reasonable position”, and so on.

Please take your time to wipe off the coffee and other things you misplaced all over on yourself, if you want.

I see.

Still, isn’t “relevant to all of us” showing the high degree of certainty (you might have felt at that time)?

Nah,

What is the point of what you’ve said? And could you give a relevant example…

I happen to think that you yourself don’t even know what you’re talking about. Perhaps an example would rectify this.

I think you can’t understand because you are so sure about your (mis)interpretation of what others say.

Can you understand that you would not be able to follow what others are saying unless you try to adopt same focuses others are using?

Even though you are slowly realizing that you are not understanding what I said, I think you are still hopefully/wishfully trying to interpret that it’s not because of your wrong focuses.

The part you are having problem was written so that (some) readers can notice the common factors among these, which is the sense of certainty.
And it’s often subconscious, emotional, and grossly exaggerated (in terms of applicability/probability/universality/etc), if we take a good look.

So, I tend to think that truth (and some other notions) are more of expression of emotional projection and hope/desire for the absolute certainty than result of reasonable/rational/logical evaluation.

If your central point is in the underlined part, then you really are swinging at a straw man pinata in an open field. What that means is that NOBODY disagrees, and that your point is so uninteresting and uncontroversial, that it’s not worth swinging at.

I would take the underlined part to be your main point, but I am having trouble convincing myself that you actually know what you yourself are trying to say. I asked for a simple example in my last post—so, how about one…

It’s one of the point.

But “NOBODY” disagrees? :smiley:
Is it another one of your wishful thinking?

As for the example, how about what you just wrote?
If it’s not enough, you can just read other posts of yours in this thread.
You’ve been making worthwhile contribution in the form of live examples, although they were mostly useless as arguments. Thank you.