Atoms as little galaxies, galaxies as large atoms

I agree. But I’m taking it a bit further - the very idea of “particles” may correspond to our own limitations rather than to some hypothetical mind-independent reality. Is there even such a thing as a “particle”?

Right…could be just a wave. :greetings-wavegreen:

Or an angel.

:angelic-whiteflying:

A three-dimensional wave.
A three-dimensional wave that somehow feeds off a
bigger three-dimensional wave and is composed of
a gazillion little three-dimensional waves.

What is fun with the atom/galaxy thing, is now
you get to fill in bits of the
puzzle on two boards based on trying to match
what you see.
Like, you can say, “The reason the galaxy has a
double-layered spherical halo with different star
flow in each layer is because each time the
disc precesses through, it is rotating the opposite
direction.” And they would say, “There is no
evidence the galaxy disc precesses.” And you would
know that it has to, if it is to have a spherical
atom-like presence. Plus what about that slight
opposite warping visible in the disc-edges of most
spiral galaxies?
So now you’re looking for stuff in each based on
what you know of the other, and
you gain both ways.

john

Anyway science demands that a theory be testable. When stuff gets really small, it acts like particles under some conditions and like a wave under others. there are limits to our ability to measure position and velocity of really small stuff simultaneously. If you multiply the uncertainty about the position of really small stuff by the uncertainty of its momentum, the result can never be smaller that a certain fixed quantity. Any smaller and it seems either position or momentum falls out. We can’t have a little galaxy the planets of which are nowhere can we? You may say that these apparent limitations are merely conceptual, but unless someone comes up with a conceptual model that works theoretically and is testable aren’t we just whistling in the wind? :-"

I don’t know. What made people sail west of Gibraltar? William Herschel was convinced there were men living on the moon. Some dreams are realized, some aren’t. Some theories are useful, some aren’t. But when the idea of usefulness is used as an argument against dreaming… well, that’s the beginning of the end for science. You just end up with Lysenkoism.

Sounds like you’re taking Rasava’s poetics pretty literally! :slight_smile:

If you figure out a way to sail into the infinitely small or the infinitely large in this life time I salute you. :handgestures-salute:

I can’t walk through walls, either. But that doesn’t mean walls aren’t permeable!

It means they aren’t permeable by you. [ Anon attempting to walk through a wall => ](*,)]

But science is being viewed through us, through a totally arbitrarily designed machine with totally arbitrarily sense organs, and thought processes and circuits and pain/pleasure circuits, etc. We are not some objective reference system measuring the world objectively, we are a slab of quirky Mass Enerrgy interacting in a quirky manner with another slab of quirky Mass Energy and measuring the events and cataloging and memorizing them as repetitive patterns in our “memory”.

We are not “nowhere”, we are a very specifically defined design, one very particular and quirky random design out of trillions of other possible designs (new designs that you can achieve by sticking wild chemicals, wild symbols and wild signals in the ball of meat that is the brain, as in Instant Singularity) interacting with itself, talking to itself basically since the slab of Matter that is outside or inside the other slab is arbitrarily defined, it is just matter talking to itself.

For a hammer, everything is a nail. Thought is like a hammer, for thought everything is just a thought itself, or another thought, or a logical sequence, or a sequence of symbols, or a logical entity or logical event. Everything is decomposed into the identity principle, to distinguish an item from another, same or different, interacting items, something exists as opposed to something different from itself, logic generates logic, a never ending recursion, tied into sensations, events, slabs of Mass Energy colliding with other slabs and creating language, thoughts and meanings all associated with memories, pain/pleasure circuits, past memories defining the present state of reality etc. Thought is our measuring device, we measure everything with our thought - logic - language, and measure our own thought constantly with the only measuring device we have. Any event and interaction is translated in a denotation, a symbol, a thought event, a sequence and process.

Anything can relate to anything, decompose thought itself, outside of your mind, external matter is crystallized thoughts, but thought is just a word anyways, another sequence of symbols, never ending, connections, interactions, events. The rock on the floor is the real mind and thought, your thought is simply a piece of trash on the sidewalk for the rock…

Check out:

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=176423

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=176611

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=172275

And all of the other posts by nameta9 and old6598 on ilovephilosophy …

When I heard about QM in school, one of
the things claimed was if you tried to walk through
that wall enough times, there would be one time
when you could- because of the inherently
random nature of matter.

Atom/galaxy fractal universe would say the opposite.

There is detailed structure at every level. There is
order at every level. Magnetism acts to order
charge which acts to order magnetism.
Electrons being accelerated around a disc makes a magnetic
field at right-angles to the acceleration, and this
field wants the disc to precess in tandem with other nearby
fields. There is no way things can be random. Magnets
pushed towards each other will ALWAYS interact- that
wall will NEVER let you walk through it.

All of matter is interconnected and always interconnecting.
Electrons give off neutrino-like energies just like our
sun, so those energies constantly go out from all matter. The protons
absorb that same neutrino-like energy which is
incoming from all the other matter and use it
to constantly re-charge their electrons. So, energy
is always coming in from everywhere and going out to everywhere!
These energies reflect exactly what is happening at
the point of their emanation, so there is always detailed
information flow at every point in space. Now, personally, I think
these smaller-caliber neutrinos would travel FTL, since
they are “finer emanations”, and thus would
be more permeable to space.

But, no, no matter how many times you contest your
head against the wall, the wall wins.

john

Well of course. If you can pass through it, it’s not a wall! :slight_smile:

Not sure if I buy that QM thing though. :-k

I’m totally classical.
A place for everything and everything in its place.
Nothing is for nothing.

john

But the galaxy model for the atom, while being
totally classical, leads to powers over
matter that QM decided were impossible when
they accepted the HUP.

The galaxy model says that atoms are discs, and
these rotating discs precess in order to sweep out
their sphere of influence.

Imagine a long straight tube filled with spinning
coins. If the spins are random, you can never see to the end
of the tube, but if you synchronise the spins, you can.
So, the first step to synchronising the disc/atoms, is to recognize
they are discs.

Then prepare for the Age of Crystals.
:slight_smile:

john

You have to follow this idea a little further:
atoms are stars and planets and…LIFE.
Every atom each of us is made from is full of US!!
So…

john

So if atoms are little galaxies, every carbon atom
in your body is another Milky Way. The life and intelligence
in those mini-galaxies will be in our image, and their
lifetimes will be in tiny fractions of our seconds.
Our hopes and fears of our present situation will result
in all different possibilities being played out in those
mini-worlds all the time.
Can you imagine if we could tap into that kind of real-world
laboratory? Any situation we were in, we could just run all
the possible outcomes of each decision before taking it.

john

Dr. Seuss already imagined it for us:

Love Dr. Seuss.

On sci.physics right now:

What WOULD work, however, and it is
very similar to what you are saying, is if
all matter gave out a PUSH in all directions, and all
matter absorbed an equal amount of PUSH from all
directions. Then you do the whole LeSage thing, and if it is
electron radiations at a smaller scale and higher
speed, that works great! The protons absorb the
gravitation/inertia and feed their electrons, which need to be
fed constantly because they RADIATE.

There! Matter causes gravitation, but not
local matter, so you do away with Black Holes and
you have a limit to how much gravity
can be experienced on a planet. Now that you have this
limit, you have a lot of unseen matter at planet/suns’ centers,
and larger bodies appear to be much less dense than
they are. So if you were to have a larger planet, such as
Saturn, Jupiter, or Neptune, or a Sun, it would appear to be
mostly gaseous when in fact it is rock and lava just like us.

Hmmm. Missing matter.

john

Okay, I’m just rambling using large-scale
to fill in blanks about small scale and vice-versa,
based on the assumption that atoms are little galaxies
and galaxies are large atoms.

You have a neutrino flux coming from all the
stars. This energy passes through from all sides
all the time, everywhere. Now we’re saying electrons
are made from a billion stars in that little galaxy that is an atom.
So, we also have a flux of energy just like neutrinos,
but 10^27 times smaller, although also 10^27 times more
numerous, coming through everywhere
from all sides.

This smaller flux pushes on protons and is absorbed
by them to feed the electrons. Gravity? Sure
looks like it. These could be
the ‘ultra-mundane’ particles required for LeSage Gravity.
Meanwhile, the neutrino flux goes right through matter
but must be being absorbed by galactic centers,
and therefore pushing on them.
So it will be the neutrino flux that is pushing
galaxies apart. Dark Energy? Neutrinos.

john

But a major part of this idea is that
atoms possess intelligence- and therefore MEMORY.

What is that ‘science’ where they dilute and dilute?
Perhaps the memory of the drug is all that’s
needed, and a cure takes place at a deeper level?

john