Money is not motivation...

I would also agree that money is not what motivates a person. It’s a convenient excuse for a much deeper quest, one for meaning and purpose. It’s like a flotation belt that keeps a person above surface while one tries to find oneself in an entirely artificial world through servitude and obedience to just about everyone and everything - except oneself. Pursuing one’s own agendas is highly dangerous to the rest, who’s agendas are different (they frequently are) and they are willing to do anything to control and inhibit it…

One can have money and still be miserable, this we know. Money is never the goal, and there lies a common misconception - it is only a symbol of value, not the actual value… both economically and philosophically…

if it’s wrong, it’s still a lie. Plus, it’s not like they are completely unaware of what they are doing. One of the tactics is to divide and conquer. You dont want to end up like these poor losers, so you have to beat them out and hoard a large amount wealth. Anything to make people feel disconnected and inferior/superior to one another is used as propaganda. Race, age, ethnicity, religion, social class, income, neighborhood, etc.

If it’s wrong, it’s a mistake. A lie implies knowing that one is deceiving.

I don’t think you can ascribe to a whole class of people what they’re all thinking. I’m sure some of them are aware of their true motives, but even then that doesn’t mean they’re deceiving those who work under them. What’s preventing them from honestly proposing a mutually beneficial arrangement: you work for me, I’ll pay you so much money periodically. Very rarely do they go into indepth discussions about the roll money plays in the psychology of motivation and justification. Neither party really cares about that, just as long as they agree to the arrangement. In fact, I doubt either party very often even thinks about the matter in the privacy of their own minds. The general assumption in society is that money is a motivator. Both parties typically take this for granted without thinking about it. I agree that the bottom line is self-interest and wealth, but this need not always play out on a conscious level, and even when it does, it doesn’t always require deception (vis-a-vis my example of the honest proposal), and even if it did involve deception, that doesn’t mean either party knows that money is really a justification for work rather than a motivator.

No it doesnt. If it’s not true, it’s still a lie.

you miss the point on the rest of it also. Hoarding wealth requires jipping other members of the human race out of what they rightly deserve. The fruits of their labor. In order to do this, you have to divide and conquer and create an atmosphere of fear so that the collective entity is no longer a threat to you. What I am saying is that there is no chance in hell that they are fully ignorant of what they are doing. They might be partially ignorant, but that’s as far as it goes.

I don’t necessarily agree. We do what we do because we want things (food, home, car, playthings etc.).
So if the motivation is to get things we don’t have and the only way to get those things is by purchasing or stealing,
and money is the most common way to purchase things; money is kinda the motivation by association.

In my opinion at least.

Money is power and like every other sort of power it becomes a institutionalized tyranny where money itself becomes a coercive device of controlling others.

i think for most people it is justification

i think people are motivated by ideas tied to money, but most don’t have the ability to succeed in this regard

for instance, currently i’m motivated by the idea of retiring at a young age (stability/security). i think that working hard, and gaining a large sum of money now, would more quickly give rise to a passive income than doing otherwise. using this passive income, i could have financial stability for the future, and use the remainder of my time to do strictly what i enjoy, with significantly less problems related to financial stability/security.

chances are i will not be able to retire at a significantly young age, or when i mature (lets say 10/20/30/40/ years from now), my views may have changed such that the motivation no longer exists in the same form

money is the means, perhaps an easier one to understand, … to work towards my goal

If it’s not true, it’s a potato (so long as I define ‘potato’ as “that which is not true”). You’re just attributing arbitrary definitions to words.

This is not only true of humans, but the animal kingdom in general. But most animals don’t “deceive” - deception implies thought, understanding, interpretation - something only humans possess (and if a small handful of other animals also possess it, it wouldn’t be nearly to the same extent). So no, deception is not necessary for some to strip wealth and property from other. This tendency for forced inequality is so entrenched in our species that most of the time it goes on unconsciously. Thought typically comes into play, not to make us aware of this tendency, but to help us deny it, to help us make up excuses and justifications for it, the aim of which is to make us feel OK with doing it. Typcially, it is both the oppressor and the oppressed who buy into it.

You will find that the range varies among those in power and high status as much as it does among those who are suppressed and low status. In both groups, you will find as many people who are completely ignorant of this reality as you will find people who are fully aware of it - and everything in between.

Still, I don’t see the relevance of this to the distinction between money as a motivator and money as a justification.

I think we mean ‘motivation’ in different ways. I’m thinking chiefly about the immediate impulse or emotional drive that pushes us to do what we do. When I drag my ass out of bed in the morning to go to work, money never enters my mind for a second; rather, thoughts about what I ‘ought’ to do, or fear of being reprimanded for coming in late, come to mind. And when I’m at my job, working diligently on a project, trying to meet deadlines and solve problems, money is again the last thing on my mind; rather, I’m motivated by the desire to accomplish something, to please my bosses, to create.

When I say that money is the justification for what I do, I mean it is the element in the arrangement between my boss and I that makes it fair, makes it OK, that I should do work for him. It’s the green light to go ahead and do such work.

I understand where you’re coming from though; I understand that we seek out jobs to begin with because we need money in order to live. But again, this plays the roll of justification. We reason out in our heads, not only why we’re looking for work, but that we need to in order to survive. It is the justification underlying this reasoning. What’s actually motivating me during these times of job searching is a feeling of obligation, that this is just something one does when one is unemployed. There is also the motivation to be rational, to predict that if I don’t find a job or a source of income then one day I will starve, or lose shelter, and other essentials, and if that ever happens, only then will hunger, a loss of shelter, and other essentials become my prime motivation to look for work and money. Only then will they motivate because only then will they actually come in as these immediate impulses and emotional drives pushing me to find work and money. Until then, however, other kinds of impulse and emotions must fill in to motivate me such as feelings of obligation, of not wanting to be called a dead-beat bum, of wanting to be rational, etc.

I read, “money is not a motivation…it’s a justification”.
I knew I only agreed halfway.
I didn’t read the part about how it’s a justification, cause that just seems like bad English to say.
The three biggest motivators out there, in this order.
1)money
2)hos
3)clothes

And it rhymes to :smiley:

Maybe reading it would rectify that.

You are the one attributing arbitrary definitions to words, not me son.

Lol, what the fuck is a potato?

hence my first post. The tendency to accept your own oppression indicates you’re a fucking moron.

A potato is something you put chili, cheese, chives, butter, and sour cream on followed by digestion. :laughing: :smiley:

Thanks for clearing that up. Originally I was beginning to believe it was the new colloquialism for saying something thats not true when you didnt know it was a lie :animals-chickencatch:

derp

:smiley:

No problem. I’m here with my stand up routine very often if you need me.

I like your style. :wink:

If you had used the word ‘lie’ properly, I would have agreed.

Ill finish reading this thread tonight, gotta head to my job to make some money now.

Money is simply about enslaving other people. You people here are making the issue harder than it needs to be.

The motivation about money is quite simple. I don’t understand why people here don’t want to address the real issues.

'cause it’s fun to blame everybody else, but when it comes time to fix up your own shit, thats when everybody bails like the building is on fire.

Duality, is there no difference between a mistake and a lie? I tend to agree with Gib that a lie requires the intention to mislead, so that one who is themselves misled and perpetuates their mistake is simply mistaken, they are not lying. But I can imagine a use of the word lie somewhere in between; we might say that “society lies to us,” when the abstract society is the one misleading us and the information is in the whole, but no part of society (i.e. individual) is aware that they are perpetuating a falsity.

In any case, I disagree with the proposed mistake. This is a good start at nailing down the positions:

I don’t think the fact that there are intermediates that could properly be called motivators means that money cannot be a motivator. The motivation to accomplish something is motivated by desire to please ones bosses is motivated by the desire for money (is motivated by everything that money buys).

Why not say that the work is the element in the arrangement that makes it fair that your boss should pay you? It’s an exchange of values: you give up your time and efforts in exchange for money; your boss gives up his money in exchange for the your work (the product of which is valuable to him). The paying and the working only happen because the desire for the value received motivates the exchange.

Is it at all in question that in some circumstances money is clearly a motivator? If I offer you a dollar to touch your nose, it’s clearly not like you’ve just been waiting for an excuse to touch your nose.

Finally somebody else that sees things for what they are beyond the idealistic facade. People like you and me are a dying breed.

This whole entire world seems to favor people full of self and collective delusions instead. What a sad world we live in these days.

Society lies to itself. It self deludes itself into a false sense of consciousness.

It tries to shield itself from it’s own horrors of it’s equally own creation and making.

Self delusion is the type of deception when it concerns deceiving oneself.

Look forward to your response on that.