## Combinational Affair

For discussing anything related to physics, biology, chemistry, mathematics, and their practical applications.

Moderator: Flannel Jesus

### Combinational Affair

Combinational Affair

There is a line of thought that says that if you can express all the possible combinations of bits corresponding to Reality - Mass Energy - Matter, then you can express all of the Universe and know it all, experience it all, see it all so to say. Like if you can write down all of the possible combinations of 32 billion bits ( 4GB DVD), 2 ^ 32000000000, you can create all the possible movies that can possibly exist, and you can watch them all and see them all, etc. So you don't have to figure them out, just use brute force and cycle through all the combinations. Same with letters and words, same with all of the elementary particles of the Universe (all of the possible configurations all the elementary particles of the Universe can be in and how those configurations change in a given number of time slots, like 10^1000 time slots (age of the universe ?), etc.) , you get the idea. It is essentially a combinational affair, but reality opposes a combinational barrier to expressing it all, it would be too easy to just use brute force and see it all and get it all.

So just all of the combinations of 1,000 numbers would exceed all of the time of the universe and all of the points in space to express itself so you couldn't use brute force to see it all. And 1,000 numbers doesn't even express too much, just a short block of text, or a very vague image, etc. I would assign this as a Law of Physics, as an intrinsical barrier the structure of the universe opposes to our "will power", to our desires, etc.

But there are two interesting points about this all: one is that the number of experiences our Man Brain can undergo, as it is designed is most probably very much smaller than all the combinations of movies for example, so maybe just a few million "movies" could cover all possible "significant and different and worthwhile" experiences our Man brain can really use. Same with anything else, like blocks of texts, etc.

So there is a mismatch between what we can use and how many potential combinations can be expressed: but it goes without saying that other designs of Man Brains may be able to use all of the combinations, may be able to distinguish as significant and important and different (by comparing it and remembering it to all of the trillions of previous ones it has memorized ?) all of the different combinations and that the real size of the universe ("our" universe, the universe according to us as the "Observer") is not the number of possible combinations of movies and bits and experiences that can be designed but simply the size of our "Experience Space" as imposed by a very specific and quirky design of our Man Brain, the possible different experiences a Man Brain can live through, so this size is very much smaller than the combinations of bits for a DVD or blocks of text, or elementary particles in the universe, etc.

But even more important, determinism of this universe is really not operating at all: no matter how many combinations you express, it will never really cover all of possible reality, every moment of existence of Mass Energy is a wild guess, the next is truly totally indeterminate, not related in any way with the previous, the laws of physics as the pattern decoding our mind executes is always an illusion, a joke upon itself, the initial conditions of each particle is infinitely precise, so nothing can contain infinity, nay, nothing can contain all the possibilities of reality, not even after the fact is it established, not even the laws of physics know, not even if you know it do you know it, not even if it is history do you know it and is it real, history is a lie, not even god knows it, nothing knows anything, each new path is a one time quirk, a unique new universe and big bang, never to be seen again, never could have been predicted, so unique and one time that it becomes vanishingly small in the combinational space, totally unrelated to anything, etc.

Therefore what will happen tomorrow can never be predicted as there are no laws or patterns or laws of physics, only our wishful thinking...

That which is larger than infinity, and larger still, but not even that, etc. nothing can contain anything.

Hence the combinational game of trying out all of the possible configurations of elementary particles of the universe will never cover reality, just an infinitely small size, since reality is way past any possible combinational game, brute force doesn't work, it can work only for our mind and our experience, since our mind is a limited decoding of reality, a very small subset, a vanishingly small and insignficant subset, Reality and Mass Energy is way past anything we can decode, hence we can see other signficant combinations only changing the design of our Man Brain, the neural circuits, the organization of new brains, so Stick A Jet Engine in you Brain and enter a New Universe.
nameta9
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### Re: Combinational Affair

As a corollary, think of parallel logic, think if every point in space and time were not sequential logic but were parallel, no more sequence, no more point like goals, but the entire monolithic slab of Mass Energy executing a combined logic, no more sequential.

Thrust a slab of steel in the Man Brain (a bullet ?) enter a new universe, breakdown logic, break away from the past.

Why does any particle have to "communicate" with any other ? why must it be sure that it isn't too different, do they all want to imitate each other ? do they need to know what their "similars" are doing but maybe they are not similar at all, maybe they are totally disjoint, not related, etc.

Keep on breaking down all the structures we have constructed describing reality.

Of course there is nothing left to discover anymore (the Innovation and Research Myth), now you must simply change the design of the Mind and Brain and Thought System , etc.
nameta9
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### Re: Combinational Affair

Logic always ends up being sequential, point like, the execution of the program is being performed in a certain area, or point of a chip, not on all of the points of the chip, hence, we need parallel logic, no sequence of symbols expressing a thought, but a parallel configuration of bits expressing a "state of being", all of the points in space and time are one monolithic slab of reasoning and logic, but it can't be decoded sequentially, hence there are no functions, as functions are always point like events, causes and effects, C follows B follows A, etc. but this is done away with, no more logic or memory, since memory subdivides the events in single chunks, but the events are no longer subdivided, they are a monolithic slab of nonsense, what they should be...
nameta9
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### Re: Combinational Affair

I was reading about Superconductors, how they discovered it about 100 years ago, then about 50 years they had a small progress in "cooper pairs" and then 20 years ago some progress with "high temperature ceramic superconductors", etc. Interesting to see how slow most scientific progress really is, how hard it really is to discover something new, or achieve some progress.

The ceramic superconductors which can work at higher (but always below zero degrees centigrade) temperatures are composed of a particular combination of elements: this brings me to question, how many other combinations of elements can be tried out, and if they can potentially contain new phenomena, new events. Fascinating to think that there is a unique combination of elements that can produce a unique event - phenomena - (or in case of modified brains) experiences, but that will never be expressed because of the Combinational Barrier the Laws of Physics imposes on trying out all possible combinations of entities.

Just like the 1,000 number long combination can never be tried out completely, there may be a unique combination that Matter - Mass Energy can POTENTIALLY express, but that may never be expressed because that combination will never be put together or appear (either intentionally or naturally): but even just 10 different chemical elements combined in a very specific way (for example as in 100 different slots in a solid state aka the combination of 100 numbers, hence 10^100) could bring something completely new, that even the laws of physics didn't know could exist, but that is potentially there.

That brings to mind the question: there is more to matter and its possible combinations than this universe can or will ever express ? The laws of physics are not the complete story, but the potential of combinations is greater and exceeds any laws of physics ?

And especially, these combinations are considering a very simple phenomena (but useful for us) like superconductivity, but imagine others, like neural circuits, ever stranger designs of minds, brains (maybe with solid states, chemical combinations) emotion engineering, the complete potential of new "experiences" that could be there and are there but will never be expressed because of the Combinational Barriers of Reality...

So then a new experience expressed by matter is really a new universe with new laws of physics essentially, a new big bang ?
nameta9
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### Re: Combinational Affair

On parallel universes: I don't think that there can be an identical you at a certain distance (meaning after a certain number of combinations cycle through), because the exact specific combination creating you is distinct, unrepeatable, because it needs an infinite precision to describe, the complete description is infinitely long so to say, and I think that even changing one bit will make that you a radically different you no matter what. Hence the combinational game doesn't really work in reality.

Aside from the fact that there may be an infinite number of universes that are all stuck in only a few combinations (always however needing an infinite number of bits to describe, so the combinational cycle game will never work no matter what), that don't express all the possible combinations....

Of course infinity is used just as a proxy to mean something else really, some much deeper limitation, something that we can't conceive of, it is not only a question of large numbers (although that is a gross approximation) and also if there is an exact replica of you, then it is you, there is no need to count them as two distinct entities, they are counted as one, even if there are trillions of exact replicas, since a replica would be different even if it were at a slightly different distance form another replica...

TOBOR ATE MAN
nameta9
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### Re: Combinational Affair

nameta9 wrote:On parallel universes: I don't think that there can be an identical you at a certain distance (meaning after a certain number of combinations cycle through), because the exact specific combination creating you is distinct, unrepeatable, because it needs an infinite precision to describe, the complete description is infinitely long so to say, and I think that even changing one bit will make that you a radically different you no matter what. Hence the combinational game doesn't really work in reality.

Aside from the fact that there may be an infinite number of universes that are all stuck in only a few combinations (always however needing an infinite number of bits to describe, so the combinational cycle game will never work no matter what), that don't express all the possible combinations....

Of course infinity is used just as a proxy to mean something else really, some much deeper limitation, something that we can't conceive of, it is not only a question of large numbers (although that is a gross approximation) and also if there is an exact replica of you, then it is you, there is no need to count them as two distinct entities, they are counted as one, even if there are trillions of exact replicas, since a replica would be different even if it were at a slightly different distance form another replica...

TOBOR ATE MAN

Aside from the fact that an exact replica would mean an item exactly in the same position and the same distance from all others, a kind of chess board matrix of reality repeated forever each box being exactly the same, with zero distance difference between each point, etc.

But the idea of large numbers or large numbers of configurations cycling through and expressing all possible states of reality is not accurate: it is as if the quantity, numerical aspect of the combinations, the long bits describing an item is just one aspect of an entity, like a multidimensional space but you are only looking at one dimension not aware of all of the others. But in this case, the other dimensions are not numerical - logical or mathematical, they are something else, but we have no way to decode them or be aware of them, in short they are completely out of our range and reach, we are not related in any way to them, we are oblivious to them.

Of course what I really want to say has nothing at all to do with what I said, it is just a very wrong, gross, nay, totally wrong explanation of what I want to say, it is 100 % totally unrelated to what I really mean, if I even really mean anything at all, go figure.

I think this is why the combinational game is limited in the end.
nameta9
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### Re: Combinational Affair

How much Memory before you Forget ?

If the Universe has 10 ^ 120 particles, then it can be set up as a memory of all past events: it would be equal to 10 ^ 120 bits, but as usual, the infinite recursion of how you want to delimit each memory element (and how you want to delimit the Observer - Brain, a Brain can be light years large) can vary, etc. There is not much you can express with just one bit, maybe 4gb (like a dvd movie) can express more, the memory slots become slightly less, 10 ^ 108, but being such a huge number of memory slots, it is more than enough for you to remember any past events and stories, etc.

One interesting problem would be how long would it take to access a given memory slot from those particles that are delimited as the Observer, that are acting as the Brain. If the memory slot is far away, it may take light years. So, in the meantime that Brain would simply read another closer memory slot. But it would have to establish a queue of memory slots it wishes to visit (but it decides with its Free Willonium section ?). So even the sequence of memory slots that it wants to access, must be remembered and must be calculated according to where the memory is. But if you don't know something of the memory ahead of time, or at least a few bits of it, how can you know when to access it or where it is ?

Wow, a lot of thorny problems, a lot of vague situations...

But the memory slots that go "Beyond the Observable Universe" because of the expansion of the Universe become "Lost Forever", that poor Brain will never remember them again. In time all the memory slots will be lost beyond the horizon of the Observable Universe, maybe after 10 ^ 100 years.

Always that, in the meantime, the delimitation of particles acting as the brain remains in some form stable, coherent, etc.

This all brings me to conclude that there is nothing or no one keeping score of all of our memories (and then those memory slots would be for one Brain, but what about the thousands of trillions of other Brains, they want their memory slots too), there is no place to put them, reality could be turned into pure memory but then there would be no Brain available to visit them or the memories would be lost forever beyond the Twilight Zone....
nameta9
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### Re: Combinational Affair

The real question remains, does logic cover all of our Physics, all of our Reality and Universe ? You can imagine two identical copies of a person, and maybe one is simply dead and the other is alive, but they are exactly the same physically, mathematically, in all possible measurements and physical measurements, 100 % identical, bar none, but there is no way to know or understand why one is alive and the other dead. So you can conclude using logic, that there is some kind of difference, some hidden difference that you can't observe. But maybe it is not so, that there is no hidden difference, nothing at all, that there is no logical reason, (since even a hidden difference would make for a logical difference, nay, a "logical relationship", hence logic (along with the identity principle and non contradiction) would still be covering all of Reality 100 %), one is simply dead, the other alive, the observation is the final explanation, nothing deeper or further, nothing else you can do.

To think something like that means that effectively, logic doesn't cover all of physics, but we can't even say this sentence since it still assumes some logic operating, hence we really can't say anything else, even though we can use the sentence as a gross approximation (but 100 % wrong and totally unrelated, go figure).

Anyways, there are other possibilities like for example even if the two are alive and perfectly identical there is no way that it can be measured completely, you would need to be both persons and decide if you are identical, but as soon as your are both you are no longer identical to either since you are a combination of both, and also you would need to make trillions of perfectly identical measurements of all atoms, electrons, quarks, whatever between the two persons and compare them and verify that they are perfectly equal up to many decimal points, something like 10^-20 (which is a huge feat for just one measurement), etc.

So maybe identical persons, equal situations and experiences are valid only for our mind and brain that decomposes all of reality into logic (without even having to measure everything exactly as logic can simply approximate things even grossly, for logic things are simply Information Relationships, bits, it doesn't matter what the precision is, just that it is a certain good enough configuration of relationships), bar none, since any sense organ event is always logic, is always a bit signaling presence or not presence, all of our experience is just a flow of millions of bits constantly informing us of our environment and our own state of mind, etc.

For our mind, brain, consciousness and experience everything is logic, but only for our mind. Reality may be much wider and deeper, but we are totally oblivious to it, even though, as usual, this sentence is 100 % wrong and what I wanted to say is not what I said, and everything I said is totally unrelated to what I wanted to say.

TOBOR AN 8 MAN
nameta9
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### Re: Combinational Affair

Observable Universe ?

There is another limit to the observable universe not related to the cosmological expansion of the universe and the signals being so far that they can't be captured anymore because they exceed the speed of light, etc. And namely, the signals are too close. If the signal is too close, then you are inside the signal and you can no longer distinguish it, it is no longer part of the "outside universe". There may also be other limitations such as the signal may jump from point A to point C but skip point B, and if you are the Observer at point B, you will never be able to receive the signal, at maybe 10 ^ - 40 m, the planck distance...etc.

Go on, invent some other model where the observable universe cannot be observed because it is "too close".

Close to The Edge...
nameta9
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### Re: Combinational Affair

Scroll over this post (all posts ?), I am (have always been ?) vomiting on the Internet, as usual.

With regards to the Silicon to Man transition Matter may undertake, as described in :

viewtopic.php?t=144656

two things come to mind:

1) As the previous examples showed, the two identical persons may be exactly the same with one alive and one dead, but there is no reason for this, so in a sense, the entire deal of simple Matter self manipulating itself to create a complex contraption that is alive may not have any reason at all, no reason at all is a good reason, no explanation at all is the simplest explanation, hence Science has finished its task. The observation is the explanation.

2) The fact that simple matter can goof around and play around with itself and create a Man Brain (or especially a simple cell that is way beyond anything we can make), while the Man Brain with its logic and theories and all the decodings and logic applied to reality can't even create the simplest life form from first principles may mean that either the reason for this is:

1) Just Because, there is No Reason, No Explanation is the Simplest and most Correct Explanation, you can't say or do or "occupy more time (as the subtle reason why we do all is to occupy time and waste time and search and try to find some cheap thrills)" on this situation, the story is ended, Science has Concluded its Task, suck it up and go home and watch TV;

2) Matter Self Manipulating itself can transit from very simple to very complex constructions (through Trial and Error also known as Natural Evolution), said constructions having repetitive patterns and processes, occupying ever longer sequences of planned events for ever longer time spans (think a human cell is born and lives for 80 years and all the "intentionalities of use" implicit in the design of the cells from the very start, like hands and eyes, etc.) all by itself, by pure chance, without any reasoning or logic, without any consciousness like all our thought processes are, by pure BLIND FORCES. While our very elaborate and best thought processes can't ( follow the sequence BLIND FORCES perform in their transit ?) transit from very complex (the Man Brain guiding the process) to much simpler (although complex) like a simple living cell.

This means that pure BLIND FORCES are much smarter than our Man Brain will ever be, or that:

There are hidden layers of logic, hidden thought patterns and structures and systems operating which we can never have access to or which we will eventually have access to but only by getting farther and farther away from our common thought sequences and logics and sequence of symbols, hence only through totally new designs of Man Brains, thought structures, as the new Man Brain may be a chunk of matter configured to resonate and have more contact points with what Natural Evolution did (and thought and designed, since evolution is just a subset of a particular kind of Intelligent Design) than our puny one transistor circuit man Brain.

Am I OK now ? Am I OK ? I will never be OK...

AN APE
nameta9
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### Re: Combinational Affair

So time doesn't exist all reality is just a sequence of pictures. But the way time becomes perceived is because reality is transitioning to a new picture, 100 % different from the previous but our Man Brain has a mechanism that adds or subtracts values to the signals coming in and forces it to seem always similar, as a smooth flow. Or maybe each picture can only transition to a similar picture next to it and so this limits how wildly different each new picture is (the limits of speed of light ? the laws of physics limiting how far a picture can differ from the previous ?), etc.

Invent other kinds of explanations, all of the permutations of concepts possible, they don't have to be true, nay, they have to be as false as possible, as fairy tale like as possible, we don't need "scientific evidence", we need creative, colorful explanantions that are fun. Only fairys want the truth, we want colorful...
nameta9
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### Re: Combinational Affair

From:

http://kunstler.com/blog/2012/02/a-fog- ... acity.html

From:

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=177939

Combinational Game

Of bits, look at Mass Energy as a combination of bits, as a starting point, as a number therefore, and look at a combination that is defined as a target, as a goal, as a result so you have the starting number that must reach the final number through a sequence of intermediate numbers, and that is the process that Mass Energy undergoes through the free forces of the Laws of Physics, and/or as imposed by Free Will(s) pushing the starting number to reach the end number by brute force or through a process that must be constrained by the Laws of Physics and other Free Wills opposing or imposing or conditioning the ease or difficulty, the speed, the resistance to change that the starting number undergoes as it navigates through intermediate numbers until it reaches the final goal achieved, result achieved, success achieved (but only as defined and arbitrarily assigned by the aesthetic and artistic values that an arbitrary Man Brain decided should be a successful goal (of course as such a Man Brain is conditioned by arbitrary pain/pleasure circuits and (both biologically and culturally) hardwired circuits in its mind that chooses the goals for him automatically)).

But the sequence of numbers is conditioned by another sequence of numbers guiding the process, as the Man Brain itself is a combination of Mass Energy therefore a number, and the goals themselves are another sequence and set of numbers and so on, and the paths between all of these numbers may be many, varied, cross connecting and intersecting, and the start and end point numbers may vary and may be a function of other numbers and so on, in a never ending maze of combinations of Mass Energy as a Number. And the laws of physics, the resistance to change the paths the numbers follow may be based on so many other new arbitrary laws, and so on, etc.

And the very sequence of numbers may be a new frozen number itself and so on, numbers that are broken down into dynamic paths and entire histories that are frozen into a single number, and the sequence of numbers may be any at all and imply any kinds of changes from one number to another, any kinds of experiences and forces and emotional or pain/pleasure states associated, etc. as in Mass Energy and the universe is simply a number that can be changed and played around with to any extent and converted into a any other number and such, and all kinds of cross functions, all kinds of relationships, (invented or real, and such) all interacting, as the most generalized form of a universe of experiences and processes that experience and Observers and Processors live within a sea of numbers.

And the number of intermediate numbers between a start point and target point may be one or a trillion or anything else and the paths may go backwards or forwards or anywhere else, and the numbers themselves may be other things, entities and so on. Just keep on inventing and extrapolating and projecting possibilities, create ever new combinations of thought elements to describe the numerical universe as a path and sequence of numbers...
nameta9
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### Re: Combinational Affair

nameta9
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### Re: Combinational Affair

nameta-----i do not know what you are writing......
turtle
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### Re: Combinational Affair

Is Reality Physics - Mathematics ?

The unreasonable precision with which mathematics describes reality has always puzzled physicists. The reason is most likely because the reality described is not really a reality and is much more so a Technology: an invention, mostly a machine, as most of those equations and interactions and experiments and laws have been furnished by how machines and devices interact with some kind of detached reality, a reality that is in essence pretty far away from nature, if with nature you mean the pure random blind forces operating under nature like inside stars (plasmas), the forces modeling the earth (earthquakes, mountain formation), the weather and most of the random natural events that occur like ocean waves and their exact form and design (can you predict them with mathematical precision ?). Of course we know and can apply mathematics to all of such, we know the general forces and such, but the precision is no longer "unreasonable".

So what scientists do is confuse technology with nature, confuse a mathematical model and description and design of technological machines with nature, as if the technology is nature: but it is not so, technology is a very specifically configured slab of matter that closely follows and abides to mental, linguistic and especially mathematical models: what came first the technological machine and interaction or the mental mathematical model ? Mostly the other way around, the mental mathematical models influenced what kinds of contraptions we would design according to clear cut needs and functions according to how we interact with reality.

SO in essence, there is no "unreasonable precision" of mathematics to reality, but only a mostly reasonable precision of mathematics to machines that interact with reality and confuses us into thinking that they are reality. Like a particle accelerator: are they simply studying an engineered device or really studying the laws of physics ?

Matter is set up so as to express mathematical relationships, so as to emphasize mathematical relationships. Our mathematical models are more than anything mostly machines, mental models of machines that are providing us a function and as such easily lend themselves to models and especially mathematical models. Since the functions and operations the machines must provide have been defined and created within a mental model of reality through language, they already, from the outset have properties that imply models and eventually mathematical, precision models, models where you can apply equations and predictions and perfect them accordingly, but because the function is clearly defined and clearly delimited by language and the model and then mathematical models further delimit and perfect them: and then machines are designed and constructed and experimented within a very controlled and predictable environment, no free wills opposing their forces to what the machines must do, no random forces and quirk details messing up models like what happens in most of real natural systems and not modelized and forced systems carving their function out of reality, by force.

At what point does a technology become a science ? at what point do we confuse a technology with science ? When did computer become "Computer Science" so to say, and is it a Natural Science ? If so then why isn't the game of Chess also simply a Natural Science ? and then why not Soccer or American Football a science ? a real science ? In this respect, we are not the "View from Nowhere" that science supposes it has, we are always the view from somewhere, from someplace, from some cultural or experience reference system, from some language construct, thought construct and memory organization of knowledge implied by a culture, civilization, tribe.

The discrepancies: the three body problem has no analytical solution (no precise solution in mathematical terms), the differential equations describing mathematical physics have very rarely precise, closed form analytical solutions, initial conditions must be imposed but are always iffy, random, not sure and not precise, non linearities abound, chaotic systems discovered, the butterfly effect ? and mostly look around you, can you give me the equation and precise solution that determined a given design of a given mountain ? can you precisely predict the exact shape of the next waveform of an ocean wave ? can you tell me exactly where the next raindrop will fall ? (but then again nature operates by simply yes and no and some intermediate state, it doesn't need precision, it doesn't care about precision, nature is very approximate, likes to make rough approximations like it will rain today or it will not, it doesn't even know or have within itself the precise capability to know, care or even imagine where the exact next raindrop will fall, it knows it only after the fact, nay, not even after the fact, not even history is true, nay, it doesn't and will never know, nothing will ever know, not even knowing itself knows...). These are all the walls of the reference system science is boxed up in, its perfect mathematical viewpoint breaks down as soon as you exit its reference system: in that case only the interaction and measurement and observation gives you some information, but information that rarely can be built upon to create a prediction as in : Thought is the Sickness, Measurements and Observations are the Cure.

When I saw the first pictures of the neural circuits in brains, I was amazed by how random, chaotic and non sensical it seemed, since I was used to digital electronics and Microprocessor Schematics. Now, I know that reality has no sense or logic, only that which we impose upon it by our thought, logic and our own schematics.

So, at what point does a technology become a science ? it is actually Science that is a Technology, in a very subtle way, and we don't notice it, but Science is a Technology: and this is what will be important when we start to directly modify our Mind Brain Design and change the way it works, thinks, its organizations, its sensations, its experiences and such. We will invent a new and real Science, a Science much closer to reality and much more real than anything our Civilization could have even imagined up to now...
nameta9
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### Re: Combinational Affair

how about dropping the word science...
let us take biology for example...
the study of the nature of life...

how is the study of the bio considered technology??
turtle
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### Re: Combinational Affair

"how is the study of the bio considered technology??"

1) Biology is not even a science, it is based on studying a completely arbitrary, make believe fluke of a contraption Matter decided to produce through a completely fake, artificial, make believe process of Natural Evolution (a fancy way to simply say the Ball of Matter that is the Earth decided to play with itself and created (nay invented, just because, because Matter was "bored") Man Brains) with no necessity or goal in mind, no need for Matter to wake up and make believe that it is alive, it should have stayed in bed and sleep instead, where its "Natural" place in the universe is: in other words, Matter and Mass Energy should just stop fooling around with itself creating contraptions that become alive and make believe that they are real when they are total lies and fake and inventions with no value whatsoever (see what happens when you don't believe in GOD anymore ?). Matter should be still, dead, should not be conscious or alive, should be blind, a void, empty, please give us back nothing, good old nothing forever, void, empty, please kill all possible life in the universe, stop this lie of Matter pretending to be alive, kill Nature...Thank You. You're Welcome.

2) The "science" of biology is 100 % based on Intentionalities of Use, of decisions and models and goals already assigned from the outset and only according to how it relates to pain/pleasure circuits, to how we can interact and manipulate matter accordingly, how we can devise new Information Relationships to achieve our satisfaction and such.

3) Since Physics and Mathematics (and the corollary logic, language, thought processes) are all based on reductionism, on precise patterns revealed, on precise mathematical or logical relationships discovered (but really invented, in a subtle way), but especially mathematical and therefore perceived as being so precise, and correct and incredible, and since from there on all of the other sciences build on top of Physics and Math and such, scientists conclude that there is something magical and mysterious in the way mathematics "describes" our state of affairs: nothing further from the truth, Matter is simply just talking to itself and making things up and lying to itself and inventing and creating virtualities (mental models and Intentionalities of Use) and such, all based on implied mental models and thought models and processes and therefore language, logic and mathematics, and looking at itself in the mirror and saying to itself, look how "precise" I am and such. Obviously this is the case of the Observer also being the Observed, the Processor also being the Information Item upon which the Processor is operating upon and such.

But to finally reveal how unprecise science really is, try to predict the exact next earthquake (and intensity and shape and such), try to predict the exact shape of the next cloud (mathematically, in millimeter terms, just like quantum electrodynamics predicts mass and charge and such of elementary particles, when it is really just predicting the huge precision of precision instruments set up to express mathematical relationships from the outset, the precision is already given since the machines are designed precisely and such), try to predict the exact shape and form of an ocean wave or the mountain shape, etc.

But the reason why you don't want to or "need to" predict the precision of those elements (try to predict the precise configuration of pebbles on a street and such) is because we don't need to do anything with it, it is outside of our usage (our function space), as a function for us to use, we can't do anything with that precision, hence it becomes irrelevant and not important but especially because we can't build any machine around that precision, we can't construct any technology or function around the precision of the exact shape of a cloud and such. So, as you see the Intentionality of Use creates the need for a Function and hence for a Machine, a Task, an Operation and hence the origin of the "Unreasonable Precision of Mathematics in Describing the World".

As a side note, I have been banned once again from physicsforums and scienceforums websites, etc. This demonstrates how the only thing that counts is subjectivity, it is all personal now, no one cared to comment or talk about the contents of my posts, it is always more important to fight the guy, to make it clear that "you don't like the poster", it is always subjective and personal, I mean, since when did a post acquire a personality along with itself ? since when did a block of text become alive and something you must fight and insult and such ? Because our Man Brain is set up only and exclusively for fighting, for confrontations, for challenges (status challenges, who is the winner and loser), we are automatically a fighting machine a hating machine, a machine that wants to win, wants to fight and win, and the contents of the ideas or posts or whatever are just an excuse (a scenary) to finally really make the true nature of Man Brains come out: the contradiction, the fight, the challenge, A against B, end of story (and trying to convince as many other readers to agree with you to gain consensus, so the more people agree with you, the more your side wins and you are right and correct and your ideas or rules or whatever (political rules and desires) become the dominant ones and such, (but as you see everyone is all wrong because our "Mind is Always Wrong no Matter What" because all ideas and positions are based on an arbitrarily designed contraption of the Man Brain so they are all arbitrary positions, fluke designs, just aesthetical choices and such)).

So, in this sense, Ad Hominem Attacks are really the only thing that we are talking about and interested in, in the end, the only thing that counts, the content of messages are irrelevant, as I always suspected.

AN APE
nameta9
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### Re: Combinational Affair

i am not interested in personal attacks....
turtle
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### Re: Combinational Affair

Sorry, there is one mistake:

"just like quantum electrodynamics predicts mass and charge"

Not true, mass and charge are given constants, but relationships between/created with the constants can be predicted precisely. But they are predicted using precision machines...what came first the machines producing and creating the measurements or the measurements independent of the machines ? do the measurements exist without any machines measuring them and expressing them ? is it a natural state of affairs that matter is set up intentionally and logically and mathematically, after many thought processes and investigations to express mathematical relationships or do scientists simply invent (but subtly) the mathematical relationships by setting up matter to express them ?

From:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precision_tests_of_QED

"As of February 2007, the best measurement of the anomalous magnetic dipole moment of the electron was made by Gabrielse et al.[3] using a single electron caught in a Penning trap."
nameta9
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### Re: Combinational Affair

i am interested in matter right now....i teach kids about this stuff..you are talking about a much higher level of discussion...what should i tell them about where matter comes from....maybe you can help....i still see this as theoretical although we use some of our understanding to make new things...
turtle
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### Re: Combinational Affair

turtle wrote:i am interested in matter right now....i teach kids about this stuff..you are talking about a much higher level of discussion...what should i tell them about where matter comes from....maybe you can help....i still see this as theoretical although we use some of our understanding to make new things...

Matter comes from nowhere, it just IS, it is a fluke, a quirk, an error, a mistake within a reference system containing all possibilities. The laws of physics and how we appear and what is has no reason behind it, no deeper cause and effect final solution, aka the FINAL SYMBOL.

Tell your kids to draw new brains, tell them to invent and make up new brain designs on paper, wildly different Minds and Brains, let them have fun, let them go crazy, tell them to make up new wild symbols and schematics of new neural circuits, designs composed of block diagrams changing all of the mental functions and how they are connected between sense organs, memories, pain/pleasure circuits, emotions, etc. Make the new brains undergo a completely new experience of existence to the extreme. Amen.

Tell them to shove a Jet Engine in their Man Brain, to throw their Man Brain in the center of Stars, ask them how does the world appear for a new Man Brain composed of an Atomic Bomb exploding, how all of those temporary connections and neural circuits produce existence and consciousness and reality as in all is a possible new design of a Brain, all is a brain as in BRAINIUM.

Read all my 1,400 past posts carefully, let your kids read them all and tell them to stick wild chemicals, symbols and signals in the ball of meat that is their Man Brain.

And especially tell your kids to worship lies, to worship contradictions to strive to be always wrong, to make as little sense as possible, to invent all they want and hose the truth and logic and reality.

Thank You. You're Welcome.

TOBOR THE 8 MAN
nameta9
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### Re: Combinational Affair

nameta9
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### Re: Combinational Affair

thank you nameta9...
turtle
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### Re: Combinational Affair

turtle wrote:thank you nameta9...

You're Welcome. Did you crack open all the skulls of the kids and shove Oldsmobile V8 engines in their brains so that they can experience and reach a new universe, with new laws of physics ? They enter a new dimension by changing their brain design, they enter a Twilight Zone, just like the old Twilight Zone movies of the 1960s...

Absolute vs Relative

The mistake is that of generalizing: everything must be A or not A, etc. Like when you say the only certainty that we have is that there is no certainty: well this is a logical mistake as it implies that you can see and assign and declare all things, entities, Information Relationships, etc., all chunks of possible existences and assigning them all a similar single property: that of being certain or not certain. Nothing further from the truth, you can simply say MANY things are uncertain, not ALL things are uncertain. So many things are relative and not all things are relative, but just as not all things are absolute, etc.

Or even better, if you assign, perceive, define, whatever A as being certain and absolute, then there is somewhere else a B that is reciprocally uncertain and not absolute, and they may also switch places: a kind of LAW OF CONSERVATION OF CERTAINTY AND DEGREE OF ABSOLUTES IN THE UNIVERSE: THEY MAY BE SOMEWHAT FIXED IN AMOUNT AND VALUES BUT MAY CHANGE ALOT AND SWITCH PLACES, AND RECIPROCALLY DEFINE EACH OTHER, JUST as saying if A is absolute then this assigns B as relative and such.

Only that according to a variable reference system you use, in one system A may be an absolute, the ground state upon which all measurements are being made and B a relative entity, and in another, B may be the ground state and A the relative entity, etc.

And this applies to all reasonings that create infinite recursions and contradictions, such as "this sentence is wrong", "absolutes are based on relatives" and such, or some examples of past posts:

"And the mind was thinking, like a slow motion mental computer program that is slowly crashing, how can something be a unit and made up of separate parts at the same time ? how come a group of entities are considered one and are aggregated and in other instances are considered independent parts ? how does free will emerge from the laws of physics (or is it the other way around) ? how can anything be different from anything else (the principle of non contradiction, a totally insane and crazy principle if there ever was one), or is the question rather, how can anything be the same with anything else, even itself ? and other impossible problems, an infinite recursion of the mind applying itself to an infinite recursion of impossible Metaphysical problems."

"So you end up having, in physics, special relativity, general relativity and Absolute Relativity as when the mind has been changed and hosed into something new. Total cultural relativism achieved, total relativism achieved, nothing at all is defined or stable, all relative, all a measurement compared to another but that reciprocally define each other, but only between themselves, no external absolute reality (but absolutes are based on relatives based on absolutes ? an infinite recursion)."

"but as usual, the infinite recursion of how you want to delimit each memory element (and how you want to delimit the Observer - Brain, a Brain can be light years large) can vary, etc. "

We just must be more approximate with our ideas, more wiggle room, just say some things are absolute, some things change, some things this or that and don't ever (but even saying "ever" creates a rigidity that is too strict, just say don't try to fix what is stable too rigidly and often and always be ready to change it all, who cares) try to fix which things are stable or not, keep it wide and random and with a lot of wiggle room...

APE
nameta9
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### Re: Combinational Affair

Take any configuration of Mass Energy and blow it up with a bomb. And then imagine the process going backwards in time, from all of the pieces it follows a path of intermediate configurations until it reaches how it was before blowing up. So this is the deal: we have a configuration of Mass Energy that can navigate a sequence of intermediate steps - combinations - slots - frames (just like a TV is a sequence of frames creating a smooth flowing picture, but you can imagine any sequence of frames creating any "picture" or non picture, any chaos or anything at all, etc.) and reach any other target configuration, but it can also be reached in one shot without any intermediate steps, just like changing channels on a TV (or actually, just like thought and language, just like reading, just like changing websites, just like looking at something different in a jiffy, etc.), and then you can imagine any sequence of intermediate steps of configurations of Mass Energy that lead to a target and the sequence can be of any length and each frame can be related or unrelated or anything, etc.

So you can imagine a box within which you can configure Mass Energy in one shot to have any configuration, so in one moment you configure the box to contain a skyscraper, in another instant the box contains a specific person with all of his memories in a specific environment, and the next moment the box can contain a star, and next an ocean and next a car, the next a city (with all of their people, etc.), the next planet earth, etc. and the size of the Mass Energy Configuration aka Matter Chunk can be any at all, and the sequence each distinct combination of Mass Energy navigates to go from source Chunk of Matter to Target Chunk of Matter can be any at all (no longer dependent on them navigating through the constraining forces of the Laws of Physics and the constraining choices of Free Will Observers manipulating and interacting with Matter and Mass Energy, etc.). And then you can imagine a mixed configuration (like a Chunk of Matter being a car mixed with a person mixed with a mountain mixed with a chunk of stellar plasma, etc.), any mix as wild and incredible as possible (just delimit any area you see and imagine it as a Chunk of Matter, and delimit any other area and imagine that as another Chunk of Matter and imagine all of the intermediate steps (any intermediate steps, there is no relationship necessity anymore between the frames since we are no longer dependent on the laws of physics) that can be assigned between the two chunks and a sequence of configurations that may be of any length) that can be assigned to any number of frames, all being different mixes, and the number of frames may be as large as you like and the time slot for each frame may be as short as you like, so you may have 10^100 distinct frames (distinct combinations of Mass Energy - Matter, distinct Chunks of Matter configured in a certain way) each cycling through completely in one second for example, etc.

So you can tune in (like tuning on to a TV channel) to a synchronized repetitive pattern representing the life of a person and his environment, that becomes a smooth flow of frames even though the next frames next to each single distinct frame of that person are completely different and may belong to another person or world or chunk of matter etc. Kind of like time division multiplexing, or what computers do when they are processing apparently parallel tasks but are actually just processing different instances of different tasks at precise intervals so they appear to be continuous and smooth, etc.

OF course the number of frames necessary to cycle through all of the possible chunks of matter and persons and all of the possible possibilities in our universe (say delimit the largest possible frame in the box to be 100 billion light years across and the smallest possible frame to be 10^-100 meters) is very large having multiple exponents like 10^10^10^100000 or something like that, etc.

Remember each frame is simply a given configuration of Mass Energy - Matter that is expressing something that may or may not be familiar to us, therefore each frame is made up of a volume of atoms (and photons, particles and velocities of each, etc.) configured accordingly to design the Chunk of Matter we desire, etc.

But you can then superimpose on the frames, and the sequence of frames and such, connections to any fake laws of physics, or simply regularities or simply rules you want, any constraints you want to impose
can then be connected to emotions, pain/pleasure, anything imaginable, and then imagine radically modified minds as being parts of the chunks of matter and belonging inside some frames and imagine the experiences that they could perceive, etc. And imagine the mixes not only being assigned in space, but also in time, consider a sequence of a trillion frames as One New Frame, a new Chunk of Experience, a new Chunk of Reality composed of Matter navigating a path in time through a sequence of configurations, a set of Chunks of Matter changing combinations in time assigned as one single combination and such. The possibilities are endless.

But a strange thing happens: all of this contraption is designed with how the rules of the world appear to our Man Brain, it is designed according to our logic, but our logic may be only very limited and only one possible "rules of the world", there may be others and some Chunks of Matter may use and discover others and may create other new contraptions, etc.

AN APE MAN
nameta9
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