First memory

I love this. I seem stuck in a similar area. The other night I teetered on the threshold of dream and consciousness and the bizarre memories I experienced were not from my own life, but they contained immense contextual depth of something I had no previous conscious knowledge of. Things like these keep me up at night sometimes. I find it fascinating your son remembered that he existed before he was born. What did he mean by that?

Welcome to ILP! Read Wordsworth’s “Ode On Intimations of Immortality From Recollections of Early Childhood”. I think that poem explains the feeling my son and many others have. My own experience was more about an early recognition of difference. Your experience of hovering between being awake and dreaming is interesting. In my dreams i meet, and am familiar with, persons and places I never knew when awake. These are places in the human mind left mostly unexplored.

My husband constantly talked to my stomach as did I from the time we found out that I was pregnant til birth, my husband did it ,even while I was asleep. The boy knew his Dad and I. when he was put into our arms he stopped crying

Thanks, Lady K., and good to see you if only in type script. I’ve been trying for some time to explore memory of being a fetus. Not much about it in the net. Yet, the idea does explain Eden, Gaia, the Golden Age, Heaven, etc. as innocence prior to experience (Blake). I think that if Freud were alive now, he’d probably make much more of womb security than he did back when. First memory for anyone is probably floating in a bubble of warmth, being given nutrients without exertion or toil and existing in an intimacy we spend our lives attempting to restore.

HI my friend! it is always good to read you. I would think that being carried around in a liquid for 9 months the sounds the fetus hears would create some memories. Contact and connection, My mother ate PBJs all through her pregnancy with me, I know I love that particular simple sandwich as a favorite food. Sound though i think would affect a fetus more than anything. as I said the boy knew us both but no other person, he cried in the arms of even family. His Dad’s heartbeat as my husband cuddled with me could have become familiar , the sound of the voice, Creating memories of sorts, its the imaging that is interesting . what images could be formed?

We’re getting into ontological memory here. Although such an idea has many opponents, it has few who have not experienced it. A warm bath in a tub full of water can put one in a state of “God’s in his heaven, all’s right with the world.” Perhaps we should consider the womb experience a precusory memory, a recollection of experiences that occur before some mind can call it a memory. I believe you about your son’s preference and where it came from. Imaging may exist as touch and sound vibrations in a fetus as you express well here.

Herre is a question/s do colors only exist for the sighted? Do those that can’t see have images of various colors and can we have colors in our minds as fetuses?

Lady K.,
I don’t know if Spiralize88 would want us to go into these areas of thinking. But, I’ll persist unless told otherwise. There was a thread on color perception. Can’t remember when and where it was. Oliver Sachs tells of several instances of blind persons “knowing” what colors are. The brain equipment for discerning color exists in blind persons. It could also exist in fetuses. The development of their brains into ability to think comes after they are born. I firmly believe a fetus “knows” color by senses that are developed in the womb.
On “memory” in general, I think that the search for the engram or "Grandmother " cell (what makes you remember your grandma’s face) are now oudated. Early on Donald Hebb showed how memory begins on the human biochemical level. He noted that, if certain neural routes are used again and again, they become the “preferred” routes and are used almost automatically, e.g., learning to drive a car. Perhaps much of what the philosophers call “sensory” data (what senses perceive) has already become “automatic” in fetal brains.

There is more on the net about fetal memory than I suspected. Did a search “memory in a fetus” and found numerous articles on this. Several of the articles have to do with a study of fetuses subjected to sounds.

“IN a study of 100 pregnant women in the Netherlands, researchers say they have found evidence that fetuses have short-term memory of sounds by the 30th week of pregnancy, and develop long-term memory after that.” ABC NEWs article “The Earliest Fetal Memory”, July 15th, 2009.
I suspect that the sense of touch occurs much earlier than this. My theory is that, as adults, we remember much of what it was like to be a fetus.

Is that even possible - six months? Perhaps your mother told you about that incident and your mind added to the script at some later date. We do this you know.

But 1 1/2 years old? That’s possible I think. Do you remember the taste of the coal and how it felt in your hands and your mouth? Do you remember how you felt when your mother took you out of there? Did you ever sneak back in? Perhaps that was your very first attempt to enter your ‘cave’. I mean, there might, in actuality, be something there. :stuck_out_tongue:

Although later suggestions from parents or other adults may, to some extent, modify memory, current research shows that what Q wrote is certainly possible. The best case anti-abortionists can offer is fetal memory or the possibility that a fertilized egg already contains certain properties of both parents. The problem then becomes who are the parents? Was the child concieved through incest or rape? Is it an eugenic idea to abort? But this is off track of the main thread. I can’t remember anything beyond my fifth year. I do not doubt that others can.

Early memories in the womb are great but, Istill do not see that it makes that fetus sentient or human until mid2cnd trimester when it is fully formed. I would say that even animals have fetal memories and are perhaps more intune to them than we could ever be.

I would suggest that, since there are no gaps, only stages of process, in biochemistry producing minds, everyone’s earliest “Memories” are pre-natal.
Lady K., what goes on with the fetus in the mid, 2nd trimester? I’m ignorant of such things; but I can’t consider a fetal brain as capable of thinking, even though the self-other interactions are already present in the womb. I could be wrong. So what do you mean by sentience at the stage of development to which you refer?
I agree about animals.

Up to the midpart of the second trimester the body and brain are still forming, the body is incomplete there can be no humanity with an incomplete body and brain. Can a brain that is not fully formed be sentient? I say no. I realize that some are going to get rabid about this but it is a valid question and subject.

There’s no such thing as a complete body and brain. We are what we are, in each moment. All you’re saying here is that a fetus isn’t a child. Well a child isn’t an adult, either.

:laughing: :laughing: And out of the chute to grab the first pick, anon!!! ROTFLMFAO. Anon you know what I mean, don’t pick nits on it. There is forming then there is growing, you know this. I did not say grow I said formed. and that means it is still getting put together in one viable item. Unless you are stating that a two day old fetus already has fully formed hands? :smiley: :smiley:

I’m glad I amuse you. :laughing:

I guess I’m just never happy with people trying to pin down what is or isn’t life, sentient, human, etc. Anti-abortionists say one thing, pro-choicers say another thing… But everyone is always trying to turn difficult choices into easy ones. But I think some kinds of choices should always remain difficult ones. Otherwise, we become less human, in a sense.

I fully agree that some choices should always be difficult. Especially this one. Once it becomes mandated either way then a child becomes a commodity. i fear the day we lose choice. I cannot ever say that someone who believes life begins at conception is totally wrong, I cannot condemn that. I do expect the same respect. but, it seems those that are in charge are leaning towards making women walking incubators wether that woman want to be one or not. it, to me, is a form of slavery to force a woman to carry.

I’m glad we generally agree. You worried me for a second. :wink:

:laughing: I just cannot see a fetus as human until it actually begins to grow after being formed… I think that is where we may disagree. when does a seed become a tree? When does a seed become a seed?