Human Depression

turtle,
Most psychotherapists could be replaced by a coin-op machine. You punch in your symptoms and out comes Rxs.
1 of 3. TMS==transcranial magnetic stimulation. It is not to be confused with electro-shock therapy. The Abbreviation to TMS is mine. The rest here is from the Mayo Clinic.
“TMS is a procedure that uses magnetic fields to stimulate nerve cells in the brain to improve symptoms of depression.
With TMS a large magnetic coil is placed against your scalp near your forehead. The electromagnet used in TMS creates electric currents that stimulate nerve cells in the region of your brain involved in mood control and depression. . . .”

  1. of 3.
    “Because TMS is a relatively new depression treatment, more studies are needed to determine how effective it is, which treatment techniques work best and whether it has any long-term side effects.”
    There’ much about this from simple searches on PC, including testimonials."
  1. As a teenager, I read, probably from Mom’s collection of “Fate” magazines, that Nostradamus got his visions of the future by putting magnets on his forehead and putting is toe in a bowl of water. I tried it. Didn’t get any visions of the future, but felt good for weeks!

Here is a bit more on the expanded definition of depression proposed for DSM 5.

I agree with you, Ierrellus, though I’d add that though long-term grief may not be normal, it may be ok. Or, let me put it this way… our modern culture (especially in America, I think) is so oriented towards Disney-esque entertainment, hyper energy, happy happy bright moods, etc. - you get the picture - that I think we are out of touch with our basic humanity. Our “normal” isn’t really normal. I think many people simply have a perfectly valid and reasonable response to the problems and sufferings of the world, and mistakenly think there must be some problem with that. That people don’t grieve more than they do for the state of things strikes me as a particularly large problem now. If people want to work with their depression, because it’s a problem in some way(s) for them, I think a great start is to understand the fundamental intelligence and humanity that depression represents. It is not an enemy, and it is not solid. It is not something to be gotten rid of.

Anon,
I would agree with you about grief and depression as thwarted attempts to exercize empathy and compassion in the type of society in which we Westerners live. That is different from clinical depression in which one cannot even function well enough to consider problems beyond his/her own suffering.
Since I’m “Up” today, I’ll share with you a real experience of dealing with the world outside my head. Over my desk at work I drew a cartoon of ants climbing a hill. All ants but one were carrying food up the hill. One ant was on its back, with the food load on top of him. The caption read “Some days you just can’t get it up!” Management was not amused. They disposed of the cartoon in my absence. That says much about tolerance of MIs.

Ier,

If you don’t mind me asking, what do you do for a living? And how do you find motivation to do it, and get through it, every day [assuming you work the standard, 40 hour work week]? I ask because work is something I struggle with to no end. I’m not lazy and I don’t dislike people or responsibility. But I have worse days than others, sometimes even weeks or months, wherein I become very withdrawn and the malaise is overwhelming. Simple, cordial conversation with coworkers, alone, is …brutal. I fight with myself nearly every morning about going in. But the ‘machine’ has no sympathy for a damaged gear, let alone understanding or tolerance. Either keep things running smoothly or you’ll be replaced. Nobody is going to look out, or speak up, for me, and I sure as hell don’t go around broadcasting my personal issues. So, I act …poorly.

The worst part is my company mandates “fun”, which essentially boils down to team-building exercises blown way out of proportion. Take around 200 people [90% of which take these events far too seriously], squeeze them all into a conference room filled with snacks and beer, break them up into teams, and have them each perform goofy fucking skits or play pointless games [of some random ‘theme’] in front of all their coworkers. This is not “fun” for me. In fact, it is downright horrifying. And not only do they mandate these things as part of the work day, but they take attendance and watch the doors and elevators for people leaving early. I’ve literally had to go sit in the bathroom during these events before, just to keep it together. Lately, I just haven’t been able to do it. I’d rather use the time for actual work, but that isn’t an acceptable excuse. People notice too, and aren’t bashful about calling others out. If they find out you aren’t participating like they think you ought to, they kick the “fun” up a notch by calling you out publicly and making a spectacle of you for everyone’s amusement, like a little fucking marionette. That is not a fun, nor tolerable, state of affairs to me. I don’t want any part of it whatsoever…

EDIT: I forgot to mention that one of these events is actually taking place today, in a couple hours. The anxiety has already made my perception very surreal. Not a feeling I’m unfamiliar with by any means, but maybe one some of you can relate to.

[quote=“anon” wrote:
I read the other day that many people would like to expand the scope of clinical depression in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM) to include grieving. That strikes me as unhealthy. I think it’s unhealthy to think of depression as an enemy to be eradicated.[/quote]

Anon, I think your link explained what so many people face today. Someone goes to a doctor seeking relief from the normal grief reaction to loss. S/he expects a magical cure–a pill. The doctor may or may not prescribe a mild sedative or short-term anti depressant. But the doctor won’t get paid if s/he can’t give a bona fide diagnosis and ‘grief’ isn’t recognized as bona fide by the insurance companies.

The current DMS expressly denies grief as a ‘proof’ of depression unless it continues for over a two month period. What to do? Change the definition, of course. The patient feels s/he has been cared for, the doctor gets paid, the insurance companies raise their rates, and the Pharms sell more drugs. But as the [u]Times{/u] article pointed out, it can be a very dangerous way to go about things. The main reason it’s dangerous, imm, is that it reinforces the idea of drugs being the answer.

I feel nothing in depression. I hate it and wouldn’t want anyone to suffer from it. I’d rather work my buns off trying to understand and, somehow, through that understanding, do what I can to at least try to change my behavior. I acknowledge some people simply aren’t able to do so, I also feel a lot of people can. But, believe me, it takes a horrendous amount of work.

[quote=“statiktech”]
Ier,

If you don’t mind me asking, what do you do for a living? And how do you find motivation to do it, and get through it, every day [assuming you work the standard, 40 hour work week]? I ask because work is something I struggle with to no end. I’m not lazy and I don’t dislike people or responsibility. But I have worse days than others, sometimes even weeks or months, wherein I become very withdrawn and the malaise is overwhelming. Simple, cordial conversation with coworkers, alone, is …brutal. I fight with myself nearly every morning about going in. But the ‘machine’ has no sympathy for a damaged gear, let alone understanding or tolerance. Either keep things running smoothly or you’ll be replaced. Nobody is going to look out, or speak up, for me, and I sure as hell don’t go around broadcasting my personal issues. So, I act …poorly.

The worst part is my company mandates “fun”, which essentially boils down to team-building exercises blown way out of proportion. Take around 200 people [90% of which take these events far too seriously], squeeze them all into a conference room filled with snacks and beer, break them up into teams, and have them each perform goofy fucking skits or play pointless games [of some random ‘theme’] in front of all their coworkers. This is not “fun” for me. In fact, it is downright horrifying. And not only do they mandate these things as part of the work day, but they take attendance and watch the doors and elevators for people leaving early. I’ve literally had to go sit in the bathroom during these events before, just to keep it together. Lately, I just haven’t been able to do it. I’d rather use the time for actual work, but that isn’t an acceptable excuse. People notice too, and aren’t bashful about calling others out. If they find out you aren’t participating like they think you ought to, they kick the “fun” up a notch by calling you out publicly and making a spectacle of you for everyone’s amusement, like a little fucking marionette. That is not a fun, nor tolerable, state of affairs to me. I don’t want any part of it whatsoever…

Hope you survive the activities. I’ve heard that if you ask a Japanese person who or what means most to their well-being, they will say the company they work for. Their companies promise and deliver lifetime financial security for workers. To me, they are wage-slave robots. As for me, I’m retired from a couple of years of teaching and over 30 years of retail. Years in which my creativity suffered. I was a fish out of water.
Once you realize that the company games are pure BS, you can fake it with the best of them. Just don’t let it hurt you. Your personal integrity is not dependent on such crap. To know better and still play the game is the only thing possible to do in a bad economy in which you could be fired for just a normal down day. Your superiority over this childish “good time day” is in your own mind, really unchallenged. How about “Casual days” in which you can wear clothes to work without being subjected to stupid hats or smocks. Both are token adressings of human dignity. Keep your soul intact by remembering always who you are. Don’t let depression tell you anthing different.

Do you hate all aspects of it? I mean, is it “one thing” at all? If not, are there useful aspects and unuseful aspects?

By the by but quadrupling my dose seemed to have worked. I aint depressed any more, in your face Jebus.

Ier,

Thanks for your response, as always.

I took this to heart and have been reflecting on it since. Don’t have much to say for now, but it seems that remembering who/what I am directly contradicts a complacency to the will of ‘the machine.’ Maybe I’m wrong. If so, I hope to discover why…

Someone who is unable to adequately value himself in the terms available to him.

“Adequately” having in mind the standard of health guaranteeing the vitality to fulfill at least some of ones desires once in a while, so as to “keep hope alive”…
It’s a vague definition, but everyone has a personal threshold.

Not bad definition but I have all the above when I am depressed, it’s how I’ve learnt to keep hope alive, I’ve learnt to expect it because it only happens at certain times of the year, it means I can “ignore” the whole depression thing and just function, if barely. Without drugs I would go to sleep practically speaking from September and until the light came back. I feel very sorry for people who have psychological issues, I don’t have them. They are lucky though they can get over those, I will never do so while I live North of the tropics, so I have to just cope. My life has been a happy one on the whole so I can’t complain, and it’s only a little of the year. In a way I look on the positive of my condition, it has made me much stronger mentally than I would of been otherwise. Thank the SSRIs for that, and anyone who says the drugs don’t work is an idiot.

Interesting what you say about the tropics. That fits my definition in the most simple way imaginable; The unavailable “term” required for you to self-value adequately would simply be sunlight. ? If thats really what’s going on then I would conclude from a distance and with limited information that replenishing vitamin D in your body could do the trick as well antidepressants, but in a more direct way. I don’t imagine for a second that this is the source of all depression, but it’s true that the farther north you get, the more cases of depression you find, so perhaps vitamin D deficiency should be considered by doctors as a cause. The first google hit I get gives some bold propositions:

" One major study done with depressed subjects during Canada’s long winter showed a profound increase in vitamin D levels with supplementation of 4000 IU of vitamin D - and a corresponding dramatic increase in the subjects’ sense of well-being.

In some research done in 2007, it was found that vitamin D deficiency correlates with depression and anxiety in fibromyalgia sufferers. And mice with abnormal Vitamin D brain receptors (leading to low vitamin D levels) have increased incidence of anxiety, aggression, poor grooming habits, maternal pup neglect, and cannibalism.

Having optimal Vitamin D levels has even been implicated in the prevention of schizophrenia. Male infants who are not supplemented with vitamin D are 12 times more likely to develop schizophrenia than those who receive vitamin D supplementation.

Research shows that the elderly who are vitamin D deficient have 12 times the increase in depression risk. Elderly people with low vitamin D levels are three and a half times as likely to be admitted to a nursing home.

There are a several studies showing that Vitamin D can positively affect seasonal affective disorder (SAD). Some even say that up to 75% of SAD sufferers can reduce their depression with the use of Vitamin D.

And We Do Know that Vitamin D Has Major Effects On the Brain and Neurotransmitters.

It appears that Vitamin D may have a positive effect on the synthesis of excitatory neurotransmitters.

Summer sunlight - which is necessary for Vitamin D production in the body - also increases brain serotonin levels twice as much as winter sunlight. "

EzineArticles.com/1983857

Nice to see someone finally agreeing with me. Thank you, FC

Turtle asked:

I’m not sure I understand. Isn’t the more important question what are you talking about when you say you’re depressed?

What is ‘it?’ LOL.

I hate how I feel with depression. I hate having little or no interest in living. I hate how I respond even to a minimum amount of stress. I hate that it seems to have gone on forever.

Are there any “useful aspects” to depression? Only if you take advantage of the drugs and therapy given and work like hell to figure things out for yourself.

Thanks Fixed Cross I’ve heard of that before but have never seen any studies on it. :slight_smile:

vitamin d is a very important problem…there is some
hope here for improved health…but watch out for all the people that will cheat in order to profit…

That and the feeling of isolation or detachment. Loneliness, in a word. Unmitigated and perhaps unjustified, but seems so apparent. I generally know when I’ve become withdrawn because I genuinely want to be left alone, yet, at the same time, loneliness is about the last thing I want to feel. Perhaps loneliness is just easier to deal with than other people sometimes… I don’t know.

God, the Introspection. Not just the time spent, but the sheer depth and brutal honesty of it can be pretty profound. Not always in a ‘good’ way, but I’ve certainly come to a few realizations I consider invaluable now. Most are of the sort I was taught to avoid and fight with all my life.

Clinical depression has much to do with one’s senses of past, present an future. A truly depressed person sees no future and blames self as responsible for the lack of hope. A truly depressed person’s mind “cardstacks” memories of life past, leaving only negative events for consideration. The condition is a mind blaming and attacking itself for being in a now that appears to be going nowhere.
There must be therapeutic help for those who are depressed. Given that meds can help, the next step toward healing is to gain a healthy respect for oneself. This is not an abetting of egocentricity; it is an acknowledgement of one’s right to be. You were born. Your right to be is a given, not an idea requiring any sort of proof. After that, one must attempt a more realistic view of his/her past to discover that negative events were not dominant.

one of the best cognitive-behavior tricks that i have heard------“dont believe everything you think”…