America

[lizbethrose]

I'm a citizen of the United States of America. More specifically, it's a Federal Republic of United States located on the continent of North America. Does that make me a Frusna? Until the formation of the USSR, the Frusna was unique. Now we're unique once again. I'm glad to be a Frusna and not a Ussran--At least I can pronounce Frusna!

[Stoic Guardian]

I will stop this anti-gringo tirade now before it gets ugly, so I'll take my leave and be thankeful for the word merkin, which I will now use.

[Kriswest]

I'm just going to call myself an Ohioan, then I no longer have to be associated with those from the fucking South. Except Smears, he's cool, and Slick Willie Clinton, but that's about it.

Really???? Then may I offer a genteel and Ladylike Kiss my grits

[Calrid]

We citizens of the U.S. have taken on (for the last few hundred years) the title of America and Americans when referring to our nation and countrymen respectively.

Most Europeans, Asians and Africans do the same.

But we seem to have offended our fellow continentals, particularly those south of the U.S Border who believe we are misusing the moniker.

What (if anything) should be done about this?

I like the Name myself and a majority of the world uses it in the same way as we U.S. citizans do.

If not America(ns) whats the alternative?

Yankees? Those living in the south and west would most likely be slower to embrace the title than those living in the northeast. Personally I don't mind it but I think many others might.

United Statesian? United Statesmen? They don't particularly roll off the tounge.

I'm just going to call myself an Ohioan, then I no longer have to be associated with those from the fucking South. Except Smears, he's cool, and Slick Willie Clinton, but that's about it.

I've said this before but it aint any less true, the South should secede. It's long overdue, and as I said before, California and a few other states should not be considered South by default.

[Stoic Guardian]

Forget that I'm a Union man. We lost 625,000 men over that issue.

I may be a northerner but that doesn't mean I claim "my region" as superior.

To do so would be to discard the Ideals my forefathers fought for.

[PavlovianModel146]

California was as Northern as they could be in the Civil War, Calrid. The Union would have been financially insolvent were it not for the gold sent to the Union by California, and any number of men were also sent over to fight with the Union.

Texas is the only State that can secede.

Kriswest, sorry about that, I forgot you are from the South.

[Calrid]

California was as Northern as they could be in the Civil War, Calrid. The Union would have been financially insolvent were it not for the gold sent to the Union by California, and any number of men were also sent over to fight with the Union.

Texas is the only State that can secede.

Kriswest, sorry about that, I forgot you are from the South.

Yeah I'ma pretend I already knew that, but thanks for making my case.

[PavlovianModel146]

No problem, lol.

[FilmSnob]

Mexico should secede.

[Kriswest]

Not a prob, Pav

It has been my understanding from school days gone way by , that California and Alaska are also Republics that can cecede from the USA. Did things change in 20 years or so?

[PavlovianModel146]

I don't believe so. We specifically bought Alaska, so I don't see how they could secede. I think, Constitutionally, Texas is the only one that can. I'll look into it.

[Stoic Guardian]

Constitutionally none of them can, that was proven with afformentioned American Civil War.

[Calrid]

Constitutionally none of them can, that was proven with afformentioned American Civil War.

Surely though the clue in the word is constitution, if you wanted to secede you would have to break that constitution de facto? I don't know but it seems a constitution is the sum of its parts by default.

[Kriswest]

Pav the land was bought but, that does not mean it falls under Federal. It is the people that reside there that decide their law.
All states have their constitution, Each declares its own status in regards to the US constitution.

[lizbethrose]

What is or isn't Constitutional depends on the Federal Constitution which is the 'Law of the Land' and to which every state agreed was the 'Law of the Land" before they were allowed admission into the USofA. Individual states gave up their right to secede when they agreed to be governed by the Federal Constitution. Read Article VI, clause 2.

[PavlovianModel146]

Constitutionally none of them can, that was proven with afformentioned American Civil War.

The right to secede was a condition of Texas' statehood.

[Stoic Guardian]

But if it's canceled out by the supremecy clause then it's canceled out, regardless of the semantics.

[FilmSnob]

But if it's canceled out but the supremecy clause then it's canceled out, regardless of the semantics.

Politics is the art of balancing poles of power. Kosovo wasn't supposed to be "allowed" to secede, but it was internationally recognized when it did. You have to be able to see the relacion between what is written and the powers involved. If Kosovo had still been a part of the USSR, sececion would have been a willfully signed pact of genocide.

[Contra-Nietzsche]

The Ohio River is owned by the South though, save for like, twenty miles in Pennsylvania. Sucks to be U-sian Pav.

Umm, I just checked the map, and apparently there are other Mexicos underneath Mexico. Even this other big place labeled America with a bunch of smaller places, I thought it was odd, but if we got our name on it, it must be ours. So shit, I don't see why these UnderMexicans are so pissed about America, they too are Americans, and just need to stop hating. Just because you can't vote in elections like a Rican doesn't mean we don't value you. Shit, I just goggled it, and we provide you all with a free education as well to boot, The School of the Americas at Fort Benning, Georgia. We even have good trade relations, with the United Fruit Company, and something called a Cartel shipping stuff through mines and catapults and shit. I don't understand this last part- I know farmers claim it's hard as hell to get their product to the market if they live too far away from a port or tracks, but this is retarded. Probably why they are all so poor and stupid. They can't even speak English, how stupid they are.... speaking some mangled dialect of it that sounds nothing like it. One of the UnderMexicans called himself 'Hey Zeus', but he signed his name as Jesus! It's like the musician Sting signing his name as 'Mo Money'.

[FilmSnob]

The Ohio River is owned by the South though, save for like, twenty miles in Pennsylvania. Sucks to be U-sian Pav.

Umm, I just checked the map, and apparently there are other Mexicos underneath Mexico. Even this other big place labeled America with a bunch of smaller places, I thought it was odd, but if we got our name on it, it must be ours. So shit, I don't see why these UnderMexicans are so pissed about America, they too are Americans, and just need to stop hating. Just because you can't vote in elections like a Rican doesn't mean we don't value you. Shit, I just goggled it, and we provide you all with a free education as well to boot, The School of the Americas at Fort Benning, Georgia. We even have good trade relations, with the United Fruit Company, and something called a Cartel shipping stuff through mines and catapults and shit. I don't understand this last part- I know farmers claim it's hard as hell to get their product to the market if they live too far away from a port or tracks, but this is retarded. Probably why they are all so poor and stupid. They can't even speak English, how stupid they are.... speaking some mangled dialect of it that sounds nothing like it. One of the UnderMexicans called himself 'Hey Zeus', but he signed his name as Jesus! It's like the musician Sting signing his name as 'Mo Money'.

Goddamn you, that was funny as hell.

I'm hauling ass to Georgia.

[Philosopher8659]

We citizens of the U.S. have taken on (for the last few hundred years) the title of America and Americans when referring to our nation and countrymen respectively.

Most Europeans, Asians and Africans do the same.

But we seem to have offended our fellow continentals, particularly those south of the U.S Border who believe we are misusing the moniker.

What (if anything) should be done about this?

i find this entire statement rather odd. It entails identity confusion.
As a child I asked the question, who is responsible for the way an individual responds to their environment? The answer is simple enough, The individual is. However, a great many people seem to think that person B is somehow suppose to respond to the imaginations of the minds of person A.

The first step in solving any social issue is to be able to clearly distinguish the unit of discourse within the universe of discourse.

If one cannot distinguish between real cause and effect from imagined cause and effect, I don't think they can do anything of note what so ever.

One of the primary notions of sentient existence is that a sentient always has a choice on how to respond to their own environment. This means that the environment is not responsible for the actions of the individual. This is not true of an inanimate object. It has no choices, and it never reacts to the imaginations of a mind it does not have.

[Contra-Nietzsche]

Texas doesn't have any right to succeed, nor does other such as California, Oregon, Hawaii.... the republican model doesn't mean you have a right to leave the union, it was a condition for statehood prior to becoming a state- and Texas was a model for this- it was a bootleg sovereign nation, and is hardly unique in this respect.

Even if the supreme court all dropped a shitload of acid and ruled in favor of some phantom right of succession ONLY on Texas' part, any local military officer would quickly point out that Texas got it's ass whooped during the Civil War, like the rest of the Confederacy, and this issue is now mute.

Texas however does have the right to disintegrate into five separate states, a biproduct of the split of the slaves vs free states era.... though slavery is now illegal, this aspect of the law stands independent of it's original cause that put it into being. At any time, we can end up with 5 Texas with 10 senators. Now.... I've always found this as odd as nothing prohibits any other state from doing this as well.... they just need congressional recognition- which Texas got a long time ago.

Also, though NO state in the union can succeed, there is nothing prohibiting a state from getting voted out of the union involuntarily. Also, a state can 'migrate' moving it's border on one side very close to the next, then moving the other, again and again, and just meander until it's within a range of like, ten feet within the territorial borders of Washington, DC, with a P.O. Box sitting under it's flagpole with 13,000 people signed up to claiming residency (if the Post Master General so chooses to allow this option for residency requirements in some states P.O. Box is all you need in the rural areas). The military does something similar, we like, next to never get rid of military divisions or whole regiments, the division is stripped of near all it's men, they're told what the traditions and standards and history are for it, and some other made up bullshit, and it's headquarters staff, including some specialty lower ranking enlisted guys such as Artillery Forward Observers, are sometimes added- they then tend to bullshit flags that no one actually serves under, and receive a reduced pay and MTOW from Congress. The job is bullshit, but their always busy, as the pentagon taps them as slave labor- as they all have specialties or high rank, and quickly become bitches to random people.


Also, a state can technically 'lose' it's statehood requirements if it's population falls beneath it's requirements to join. Some such as Alaska and North Dakota in the past, before their respective oil books, were facing the legal and deeply unwanted census listing of once occupied land becoming frontier again! They won't give you shit for moving there now these days though just for the sake of keeping their population up, they both have too many people in relation to infrastructure, why rent exploded in both places.

Now..... Alaska was bought from Russia (Clinton was offered to by the Chamchaka Peninsula from Russia and foolishly said no- just like Alaska).... Russia pissed off the natives there, and when the territory was bought over to US Sovereignty, it was made a military colony. You would think this would of made them resentful, but you gotta remember the nature of the average American of that era- mostly tough, independent frontiersmen...... who liked to hunt and fish.... which the locals liked to do in Alaska, and there was hardly any squabble over land, as what the Russians had built township wise was accepted by the locals, and largely populated by them. Anchorage was mostly useless land no one used- and it became it's main city, so there isn't any hurt feelings on this part. Living under military law was a blast back then.... as the military just largely didn't give a fuck about interfering when they could go skiing or hunting instead. Locals increasingly prospered, and became Americanized without much of a squabble. Not really much of a reason for a soldier to go hike out to a igloo and fuck around with it anyway, so it was a easy decision.

Now it's a state, it also hosts two army infantry brigades, several airforce bases, several anti ballistic missile testing sites, and like 8 marines who don't know how to swim. Most relations between the locals and the military is tight, and the military guys tend to date and marry the local girls, settle down, and add to the genepool- so many men in Alaska are either military or military descent.

The Marshall Islands succeeded from the US in 1986. We didn't really care, as we had control of Wake Island long before them.... and we never technically conquered them, just collateral from the war era. Marshall Islanders, known as Micronesians here in Hawaii, are the most hated Ethnicity period by the locals, and it's odd in some ways, as they're related to the hawaiian natives. Because we tested nuclear weapons on bikini atoll, the residents of the Marshall Islands are allowed 2000 per child every couple have, the right to move to the US, fast track to citizenship, and access to training schools. Many come here to Hawaii, and start a baby factory, and show up their first day and buy a Lexus. This causes a KKK mentality amongst the Chinese and Native population, raving about pregnant Micronesians fucking and making more babies.... something you won't here any other group say openly in any other part of the US, though I suspect every race has it's pet peeves and thinks this in a majority sense from time to time.... here it's rife.

The US, I think gave up Palau as well.... I can't recall right now.... they make decent tourist dollars due to Jellyfish lake. America Samoa might not be able to succeed because technically it's not a territory. We never actually conquered them, rather, we scared a German ship off from conquering them, and stationed some guys there during WW2 to keep the Japs off.... the locals learned how to fight form the GIs, and formed their own national guard unit. They have federal level representation and directives from the President such as in homeland security, but also are allowed 1 non-voting representative who acts within the capacity of a territorial representative.... pretty much what he says goes in regards to what happens to America Samoa. America Samoa, unlike a territory, does not have a territorial governor appointed over it, they elect their own president, who appears to be fairly independent as a president of a country goes, and claims American Samoa is indeed independent.... but this is also weird to say when there is a US flag outside, US military post manned (though almost exclusively by locals,) and several US Post Offices and federal buildings representing various branches of the federal government. In America Samoa, your not born with automatic American Citizenship, but it's silly easy to get it if you want it. There is a seperatist movement not so much from the US but from America Samoa on one of it's islands, but his shotgun is malfunctioning, so it's not a heated issue at this moment.

We have some territories in the Caribbean, both have the right to leave the union. Diego Garcia in the Indian Ocean is legally England's, though we'll someday likely trade them something for it, as we have a history of doing that. Guantanamo Bay is by treaty legally part of Cuba, but it was signed with a legally different Cuba, and the treaty is technically not as a result in force anymore due to Fidel Castro killing off that Cuba. But none the less, due to a Supreme Court loophole in rejecting it's jurisdiction over Guantanamo, it belongs to someone NOT America, and since we're still abiding by our end of the treaty, we're not in default.... though it's questionable legally who we can be in default to, as we're not required by international law to recognize the new entity of Cuba as a continuation of the old Cuba anymore than Russia was required to recognize Napoleon's France as a continuation of Monarchical France in which it had several alliances with.

We are able to freely give and sell off territories to whoever we want to. This includes Washington, DC....... congress can decide to sell it off quite legally, or give it up in a treaty in a heartbeat without much legal fuss.

[statiktech]

Dude, you must prefer philosophizing on a belly full of crank. I can't fathom another explanation for the sheer length of your responses.

[Contra-Nietzsche]

Yeah.... I'm a pretty dedicated cynic, and my brain is always humming, 24 hours a day, awake or asleep. This is quite small in comparison to what I go through on a daily basis- I have good hemisphere to hemisphere communication, and am always in complex conversation with myself. I've knocked out 40 page tracts before, just manic writing hurting my fingers tips. Doesn't mean it necessarily coherent though, and I hate editing my own stuff. Plotinus was the same way.

[statiktech]

I'm actually pretty similar in terms of the mind always running. Sometimes even in what seems to be a looping sequence. Putting my thoughts in to words is the difficult part for me, so eloquence is something I kind of observe and practice in intelligent conversation, and places like ILP.

I consider myself something of a cynic. Certainly not to the extent people expect when they hear the word. But, to me, cynicism is more about living one's philosophy. That is, the cynic's ideology is best kept by what he doesn't expressly say, or bother to entertain. The goal is indifference and comfort in simplicity rather than adopting an adversarial role or simply waxing indignant about everything under the sun. People tend scrutinize me because I don't exactly go around mocking others or demanding reform, let alone spitting in faces or tugging my taffy in public. Perhaps I'm not a cynic at all, I don't know. I don't necessarily believe society, conventions, customs, etc. to be entirely detrimental or "wrong." I think we do the best we can, but mistakenly consider ourselves as something separate from, and superior to, nature and 'animal.' We are too easily convinced of our own worth.