I still dont get it. Security/Education/Health

[Faust]

Faust, the programs the US has in place now is sufficient for aiding people with medical problems.

Helping to make ours the most expensive and least efficient system in the entire world.

If folks want to go to other societies where the socialized medicine templates are in place, then they are welcome to do so.

Sure, and if blacks don't like the way they are treated, they can go "back" to Africa. In fact, anyone who is dissatisfied with any aspect of life in the US can simply move to another country. You have got to be joking.

A lot of the problems hospitals have now is the influx of illegal aliens using the medical system without any contribution to taxes. This hurts people who do pay them because the cost of medical help rises not to mention the wait times in ER's.

Sure - it's all the fault of the Mexicans. I don't need to read your post, really - I can just turn on Rush Limbaugh.

If you get into a socialized medicine based situation where the government has it's hands on the controls, people leave their legal footholds at the door. It won't be long until there will be people who run the system will bog it down in endless redtape and unaccountable medical personnel. Plus, if there is a fatal or near fatal incident concerning healthcare, there won't be an opportunity for any kind of legal retribution.
Faust, the programs the US has in place now is sufficient for aiding people with medical problems. If folks want to go to other societies where the socialized medicine templates are in place, then they are welcome to do so. What needs to be done is to rework the present medical system without further government involvement.

A lot of the problems hospitals have now is the influx of illegal aliens using the medical system without any contribution to taxes. This hurts people who do pay them because the cost of medical help rises not to mention the wait times in ER's.

If you get into a socialized medicine based situation where the government has it's hands on the controls, people leave their legal footholds at the door. It won't be long until there will be people who run the system will bog it down in endless redtape and unaccountable medical personnel. Plus, if there is a fatal or near fatal incident concerning healthcare, there won't be an opportunity for any kind of legal retribution.

Only if we make it so. You're making stuff up.

[Liteninbolt]

Helping to make ours the most expensive and least efficient system in the entire world.

It's only getting that way due to government intervention.

Sure, and if blacks don't like the way they are treated, they can go "back" to Africa. In fact, anyone who is dissatisfied with any aspect of life in the US can simply move to another country. You have got to be joking.

Citing a racial context into your argument has no bearing on:

If folks want to go to other societies where the socialized medicine templates are in place, then they are welcome to do so.

If people want to want to utilize a socialist based medical system, then they are welcome to become citizens of a nation that uses it. Otherwise they can stay deal with what we presently have.

Sure - it's all the fault of the Mexicans. I don't need to read your post, really - I can just turn on Rush Limbaugh.

Are you reading exactly what I am writing? I said " A lot of the problems hospitals have...". If you don't want to read my post, then don't. Listen to Limbaugh...because I sure don't.

Only if we make it so. You're making stuff up.

There's that word "if" again...as alluding to a hypothetical situation which I was doing when making my statements to you. Look closely, you'll see them. We all use that word to offer conjecture on possible outcomes. That is what I was doing while plying my opinion in this discussion. The very thing you are doing. You want socialized medicine...fine. I don't.

[Faust]

It wasn't just a racial context. What I also said was that your suggestion is that whenever we find fault with a feature of US society, we should just leave. That is a preposterous notion.

But I wonder if you could answer my question - will you reject Medicare when you are 65? It's socialised medicine.

Pewrhaps you should read what you wrote:

If you get into a socialized medicine based situation where the government has it's hands on the controls, people leave their legal footholds at the door.

Socialised medicine (which is the governemnt in control) = no legal foothold for citizens.

[Liteninbolt]

It wasn't just a racial context. What I also said was that your suggestion is that whenever we find fault with a feature of US society, we should just leave. That is a preposterous notion.

But I wonder if you could answer my question - will you reject Medicare when you are 65? It's socialised medicine.

Pewrhaps you should read what you wrote:

If you get into a socialized medicine based situation where the government has it's hands on the controls, people leave their legal footholds at the door.

Socialised medicine (which is the governemnt in control) = no legal foothold for citizens.

I answered that, but I'll reiterate:

Faust, the programs the US has in place now is sufficient for aiding people with medical problems.

I don't want anymore control, legislation or otherwise than we already have concerning the medical assistance that is in place right now. If I was allowed, I would redirect my payments to Social Security to my own private account so I could use that money as I see fit. If others wanted to put their money into that defective part of government which is losing it's ability as time goes on to pay future retirement for people, then let them. We shouldn't depend on the government to provide for us our whole lives, just enough with what is in place now to help the ones that need it to get back on their feet, then become productive citizens.

[Faust]

I'm talking about medicare. You still have not answered the question. If you'd rather pay for health care yourself, and get care that is not controlled by the government, then will you state here that you will refuse medicare? People who don't have kids pay school taxes, so the argument that you shouldn't pay taxes for services you don't use is tricky.

And I have another question - are you willing to pay for your health care at, say, age seventy-five, if it costs half a million dollars? How do you supose this would work for the people who provide janitorial services in the US? Should minimum wage be increased so that they can have the same choices that you evidently think you will have at age 75?

Of course, you could seek a private insurance plan for your old age. I suppose you have priced those out.

[Liteninbolt]

If our 401K and our CD's play out I may. Depending on the quality life my personal life, that is what will determine my decision. If it turns out that my health is in a terminal state, I will live out my life at home. That is what happened for my mom and dad, so I will follow suit. My dad died in my teens and we took care of my mother until she died. We built a house for my mother-in-law next door to us so we could have her close to us.

For the people who do not have the means to do so, they can depend on medicare through the monies that are collected through Social Security (if it doesn't run out) that all tax payers provide. As I had stated, the programs that are in place now are fine. Total medical dependency through the government to me is unnecessary and should stay mainly on a privatized basis in my opinion.

I know we don't see eye to eye on this, so we'll have to agree to disagree. I have spoken to this topic sufficiently and am done here.

[Faust]

Medicare = socialised medicine.

Nothing prevents you from obtaining care on your own. Private health care will always be available to those who want it. If it isn't, you are free to move to a country where it is available.

[winverawin]

never mind

[incorrect]

i'm not against nationalized healthcare as an idea, but there is one part of the bill that makes absolutely 0 sense/cents to me

you, the citizen, MUST buy something (insurance) that BY DESIGN tries to not pay you in order to profit

the bill attempts to control benefits and force providers to pay for things.. preexisting conditions, etc.. which is fine... BUT

imo it just seems like an enumeration of things you must do.. if private insurance has any future AT ALL, raising new funds is a must

companies will have to be more creative to get your money. (anyone ever heard of a loophole? they're coming)

it makes me believe health insurance will eventually have no place in the private sector

imo it's just a tax (probably a typical fiscal conservative view)

with a long term strategy of eliminating competition and your options as a consumer (a more libertarian view)

[PavlovianModel146]

They don't have to be more creative, all they have to do is raise prices.

You have two choices:

1.) Purchase insurance.

2.) Get fined.

It's not even like auto insurance where you:

1.) Have more competition.

and

2.) Have potential customers that can refuse to buy it and just hope that they don't get into an accident.

---This health insurance is mandatory, and you will have to prove that you have it or you will be fined. Why do you think the insurance companies were lobbying for it? Everyone is a customer now. It's not Nationalized Healthcare, it's just consumer (not industry) regulation.

[winverawin]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-sirota/nationalization-its-not-s_b_170150.html

never got to thank you for the link.

[winverawin]

p.s. what about medicaid?

medicare and medicaid are run so inefficiently that government needs to dip into income taxes every year just to continue paying for them... even though we pay a "medicare" tax on our paycheck, it only, at this current point, covers roughly 50-60% of the total cost of these programs; the rest comes from the "federal" and "state" income taxes of your paychecks; and there was a recent study, last year, which showed the amount of fraudulent claims and waste associated with medicare was estimated conservatively at over 40 billion dollars, just last year (that includes faulty procedure claims, claims for equipment that was never received, etc).

the costs of medicare/medicaid explode every year, and out of proportion to inflation and the increasing numbers of dependents-- please tell me even ONE reason why a government-run system, of ANY kind, particularly healthcare, has any incentive whatsoever to control and reduce costs (a practical, i.e. REAL reason, not some "public utility/common good" BS).

ok, then why dont we protest medicare/medicaid (or protest the state government sponsored health care in FL for low income children) like the general american population protested first lady Hillary Clinton when she tried to initiate government sponsored health care all?


p.s. I am not in favor of government sponsored anything and yes this a real question I have.