The Fallacy Of Alternative Energies

[James L Walker]

Yes, James, but what I'm proposing is a more democratic approach to it. I'm almost certain that you will agree that men, the way it is now, cannot pursue sex without the possibility of producing a child. Have you ever been with a girl who says she's on birth control, but may not be? Once again, we as men, as it stands now, have no control over it -that is unless we permanently give up having a child through vasectomy. We need to have a choice in the matter. And it needs to be one better than wearing a condom.

It's not like the more totalitarian approach of China.

There is nothing democratic about totalitarianism.

Democracy is built upon more on illusion than anything as it never works out ever.

[James L Walker]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_energy_suppression

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=free+energy+devices

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGq2WSnE7j0
(Home Made) Perpetual Motion Magnetic Motor spins at 6000rpm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGg0ATfoBgo
Combusting salt water







http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWxDmBocGrM
I could go forever baby!

And the applications for modern infrastructure replacement are what exactly?

I have no evidence that any of those links provided are factual.

[James L Walker]

All of modern society runs on petroleum. As soon as petroleum ends it's peak usage modern society will end with it for there is no viable alternative energy to meet current infrastructure and global consumption.

"Current infrastructure" is merely saying, "what we currently use". If you currently use lemon juice, then any alternative to lemon juice doesn't meet the current infrastructure. Ages of Man are defined by their fundamental specific dependencies.

Alternative energy cannot conquer geology or physics.

Maybe now humanity should get use to the idea that the future is one where the world makes a return to fifteenth century living standards.

Modern civilization the failed experiment. A mere blip of history.

The issue of how to get around the use of oil as an energy source was resolved long ago. I know because I was a part in that game in the 1970's. The primary issue was "The Second Speculation of Thermodynamics". James Maxwell, some 130 years ago disproved that "law" with "Maxwell's Demon". In 1974, I personally demonstrated a working version of Maxwell's demon only to find that I hadn't been the first by a long shot. The world runs, not on energy or money, but on politics and propaganda.

Free energy to run an automobile is a trivial engineering case these days. Free energy use in a socialist world is not going to happen, although once totally communist, it might.

What are you even talking about? Of course modern and society or infrastructure runs on energy!

[James L Walker]

No alternative energies can support current global populations or meet the demands of current infrastructures. Geology and physics have everything to do with it.

Still confused by the geology part. If we are talking about alternatives to hydrocarbons, then geology is kind of out of the picture, except where geothermal and nuclear are concerned. And you'll have to show how geology has proven the limits of these technologies to be insufficient. And, despite the Japanese incident, there is still good reasons to develop nuclear power (don't put reactors in the paths of potential tsunamis would be one new rule). As a geologist and an engineer I certainly think that we could use "alternative" sources to replace hydrocarbons for energy generation. Can we do it tomorrow? Not even close.

And forget about "free" energy. This forum should be well beyond adolescent dreams of eternal motion.

A final caveat: "Growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of the cancer cell." - Edward Abbey. Human population is the real problem. We will run out of energy (and all other resources) if we don't cotton on to the fact that the population cannot continue to grow at the current rate.

Geothermal technology is a nightmare in some places of the world if not costly and prone to local destruction by erosion. There is the earth quakes too due to damaged teutonic plates from drilling. Modern Germany as a excellent example with their failed expiriment with geothermal energy. Only on Iceland does it make sense with their environment.

It's energy output is not even much as it cannot supply large city centers with adequate energy.

For me nuclear energy is too dangerous to the environment.

Nuclear energy does nothing for transportation.

Agreed with everything else you said.

[James S Saint]

And I suppose you think that solar panels are a hoax too?
And all of those wind generators are really there to generate wind?

[James L Walker]

d63:

Exactly, buffalo! The idea isn't to replace carbon fuels right away. It's to buy time until we figure out something better.

And you probably already know I'm with you on the population issue.

Except for, that were running out of a window fast for the continuance of modernized society and infrastructure. As I said were already beyond peak oil on the Hubbert curve straight to just decline and global scarcity.

This is why oil companies are becoming desperate with the current practice of oil fracking which in the long run is unsustainable and horrendous to the environment as Alberta Canada with their tar sands can illustrate.

Oil fracking worldwide only illustrates the desperation of peak oil.

Oil fracking is also inefficient to energy demands in that it produces little output where it is akin to putting a bandaid on a gun shot wound.

[James L Walker]

And I suppose you think that solar panels are a hoax too?
And all of those wind generators are really there to generate wind?

Both solar panels and wind turbines are inefficient in energy production for large city centers.

Wind turbines also take a lot of space too.

[Calrid]

No alternative energies can support current global populations or meet the demands of current infrastructures. Geology and physics have everything to do with it.

Still confused by the geology part. If we are talking about alternatives to hydrocarbons, then geology is kind of out of the picture, except where geothermal and nuclear are concerned. And you'll have to show how geology has proven the limits of these technologies to be insufficient. And, despite the Japanese incident, there is still good reasons to develop nuclear power (don't put reactors in the paths of potential tsunamis would be one new rule). As a geologist and an engineer I certainly think that we could use "alternative" sources to replace hydrocarbons for energy generation. Can we do it tomorrow? Not even close.

And forget about "free" energy. This forum should be well beyond adolescent dreams of eternal motion.

A final caveat: "Growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of the cancer cell." - Edward Abbey. Human population is the real problem. We will run out of energy (and all other resources) if we don't cotton on to the fact that the population cannot continue to grow at the current rate.

Geothermal technology is a nightmare in some places of the world if not costly and prone to local destruction by erosion. There is the earth quakes too due to damaged teutonic plates from drilling. Modern Germany as a excellent example with their failed expiriment with geothermal energy. Only on Iceland does it make sense with their environment.

It's energy output is not even much as it cannot supply large city centers with adequate energy.

For me nuclear energy is too dangerous to the environment.

Nuclear energy does nothing for transportation.

Agreed with everything else you said.

Has anyone mentioned wave power yet?

I would hate to think Walker hasn't been given the chance to basically dismiss every alternative out there...

And I suppose you think that solar panels are a hoax too?
And all of those wind generators are really there to generate wind?

Both solar panels and wind turbines are inefficient in energy production for large city centers.

Wind turbines also take a lot of space too.

Can you link that?

Because no one sets up solar panels in cities it's usually done on mass in the countryside and then the energy is fed to the national grid. Wind as well, well in the sea or on flat land.



I like these ones in Spain they basically focus all the solar energy onto a tower with a pump full of water, to create steam for a turbine, it is said that if you stand in front of the beam when at full intensity you will be vaporised.

[James L Walker]

Free energy

Crookes_radiometer_moving.gif

Looks small with very little energy output.

How are you going to replace it with modern infrastructure consumption in massive scale?

This is the question that begs to be answered on this issue.

[James L Walker]

Simply beacause Utopia may be an impossibility doesn't mean that hopes for technological breakthroughs are illusionary.

That said there's "always" a downside to new technology foreseen or not.

Pipedreams everywhere. I am afraid geology and physics is the limitation to everything not imagination.

[James L Walker]

The assumption that if [x] were true, it would necessitate that the public is going to be informed of it by the system is a bad assumption. People fall victim to this all the time and it's horribly lazy thinking.

Anyone in this thread saying something to the effect of, 'well if [that] were true I would have heard about it' is a fucking idiot I can guarantee sits there watching television with an righteous expectant attitude. Cause you're obviously entitled to knowledge. God forbid someone read a god damn book or think for themselves.

If you're wondering why we're still using gas it's because of your insane ignorance toward things invented like last century. Yes, you.

Why would anybody keep any sort of alternative 'free' energy hidden?

If it exists since it is in demand we would of heard about it by now.

[Calrid]

The assumption that if [x] were true, it would necessitate that the public is going to be informed of it by the system is a bad assumption. People fall victim to this all the time and it's horribly lazy thinking.

Anyone in this thread saying something to the effect of, 'well if [that] were true I would have heard about it' is a fucking idiot I can guarantee sits there watching television with an righteous expectant attitude. Cause you're obviously entitled to knowledge. God forbid someone read a god damn book or think for themselves.

If you're wondering why we're still using gas it's because of your insane ignorance toward things invented like last century. Yes, you.

Why would anybody keep any sort of alternative 'free' energy hidden?

If it exists since it is in demand we would of heard about it by now.

Unless, run with me here the oil companies have suppressed the tech by taking out its people, hence leaving them with the only resource that garners massive profits. Hell it could be true, to a conspiracy theorist it would probably get them wet.

James there's such a thing as believing that everyone is out to get you and everyone, and such a thing as society seeks to improve itself. You should not so lightly dismiss the opposing view, in preference to the tin foil view that is at the extreme. Not everyone hates you and is trying to grind you down.

In fact don't go changing...

[James S Saint]

If it exists since it is in demand we would of heard about it by now.

Haha.. that HAS to be sarcasm.

[James L Walker]

To Calrid:

How is wave technology applicable beyond the coastline?

What is it's energy output? Can it replace current modern infrastructure?

Looks like it does nothing for transportation.

[James L Walker]

I got it! Algae will save us all! *sarcasm*

[Calrid]

To Calrid:

How is wave technology applicable beyond the coastline?

What is it's energy output? Can it replace current modern infrastructure?

Looks like it does nothing for transportation.

Well I live in the uk with a massive coastline to exploit per unit area of land. It works well in certain countries, just like solar does. Solar is now costing less than oil and coal burning in some countries, you should not lightly dismiss alternatives because you want everything to fail I think. Read some science mags, look at where the tech is going and how it is improving so considerably in short years, then make up your mind with an educated opinion, not a blog by someone who is obviously not clued up.

[Calrid]

I got it! Algae will save us all! *sarcasm*

Actually there are now ways to produce energy from introducing bacteria to farm land, what happens is the roots are exposed to ionising bacteria, so that a crop can grow and produce energy output at the same time. ATM it's not great efficiency wise but it's early days. Read a magazine or two, get clued up. You can't expect everyone to spoon feed you where tech is. Nor can you expect everyone to believe its hopeless when new energy technologies are popping up all the time, with very low carbon footprints.

[James S Saint]

To Calrid:

How is wave technology applicable beyond the coastline?

What is it's energy output? Can it replace current modern infrastructure?

Looks like it does nothing for transportation.

Which are you arguing "current infrastructure" or "alternative energy is a fallacy"?
"Current infrastructure" requires what current infrastructure is currently using, any alternatives do not apply.

[James S Saint]

Tell you what Walker, you convince me that you can pay $1,000,000 (pocket change these days) and I will prove to you how to gain free energy usable for a typical automobile.

[Calrid]

To Calrid:

How is wave technology applicable beyond the coastline?

What is it's energy output? Can it replace current modern infrastructure?

Looks like it does nothing for transportation.

Which are you arguing "current infrastructure" or "alternative energy is a fallacy"?
"Current infrastructure" requires what current infrastructure is currently using, any alternatives do not apply.

Lol can't win don't try. I so love your ability to turn any argument into the next apocalypse, alternatives do not apply because, I need to know you know what alternatives you are talking about that don't apply because you say so?. I still think though and if you'll pardon my French you are full of merde atm, you just haven't done the leg work, so rather than look into this you'd prefer to just malign any attempts anyone has because in your biased mind set they are doomed before they even get off the ground. People have given you great ideas for tech improvements, new and novel and at every turn you've just claimed switching to them will no doubt fail. It's time for you to explain why all these techs are doomed, not just create a logical fallacy where you win by default.

[James L Walker]

To Calrid:

How is wave technology applicable beyond the coastline?

What is it's energy output? Can it replace current modern infrastructure?

Looks like it does nothing for transportation.

Which are you arguing "current infrastructure" or "alternative energy is a fallacy"?
"Current infrastructure" requires what current infrastructure is currently using, any alternatives do not apply.

Lol can't win don't try. I so love your ability to turn any argument into the next apocalypse, alternatives do not apply because, I need to know you know what alternatives you are talking about that don't apply because you say so?. I still think though and if you'll pardon my French you are full of merde atm, you just haven't done the leg work, so rather than look into this you'd prefer to just malign any attempts anyone has because in your biased mind set they are doomed before they even get off the ground. People have given you great ideas for tech improvements, new and novel and at every turn you've just claimed switching to them will no doubt fail. It's time for you to explain why all these techs are doomed, not just create a logical fallacy where you win by default.

Like so many before you, you're unable to see the dead end of modernized society and it's unsustainable expansive infrastructure.

Keep in mind that peak oil is just one factor of modernized society's damnation.

All of that isn't acceptable with minds like yourself in that you think there always must be some sort of pie in the sky alternative to this inevitable inescapable fate but what you and others like yourself will find is that there are limitations to imagination where some problems are insolvent to even some of the greatest minds where it is upon that realization that I hope people such as yourself will come crashing down to reality.

In the end all of you will fall to your knees as reality will inevitably set in showing your embraced folly for what it is.

By the way I am still waiting for evidences from all of you for modern infrastructure replacement once petroleum enters it's global twilight with a energy alternative.

No rush...

[James S Saint]

Like so many before you, you're unable to see the dead end of modernized society and it's unsustainable expansive infrastructure.

Keep in mind that peak oil is just one factor of modernized society's damnation..

And therefore we MUST declare Marshal Law.
Walker, you seem to have only one eye open.

By the way I am still waiting for evidences from all of you for modern infrastructure replacement once petroleum enters it's global twilight with a energy alternative.

No rush...

I'm still waiting for you to prove to me that you could make it worth my while to merely explain it to you.

[Calrid]

Lol can't win don't try. I so love your ability to turn any argument into the next apocalypse, alternatives do not apply because, I need to know you know what alternatives you are talking about that don't apply because you say so?. I still think though and if you'll pardon my French you are full of merde atm, you just haven't done the leg work, so rather than look into this you'd prefer to just malign any attempts anyone has because in your biased mind set they are doomed before they even get off the ground. People have given you great ideas for tech improvements, new and novel and at every turn you've just claimed switching to them will no doubt fail. It's time for you to explain why all these techs are doomed, not just create a logical fallacy where you win by default.

Like so many before you, you're unable to see the dead end of modernized society and it's unsustainable expansive infrastructure.

Keep in mind that peak oil is just one factor of modernized society's damnation.

All of that isn't acceptable with minds like yourself in that you think there always must be some sort of pie in the sky alternative to this inevitable inescapable fate but what you and others like yourself will find is that there are limitations to imagination where some problems are insolvent to even some of the greatest minds where it is upon that realization that I hope people such as yourself will come crashing down to reality.

In the end all of you will fall to your knees as reality will inevitably set in showing your embraced folly for what it is.

By the way I am still waiting for evidences from all of you for modern infrastructure replacement once petroleum enters it's global twilight with a energy alternative.

No rush...

Oh good lord, we have shown you evidence, what you haven't shown is that you have any understanding of anything anyone has shown enough to dispute it beyond clichés. We can all just claim it's all just shit, but atm: you started the thread the onus is on you to prove your case not us to prove all our solutions will work. Although altogether they may have a pretty good shot. No rush...

[BUFFALO]

OK. Lets google "Nikola Tesla Free Energy Generator" as suggested. Funny how none of the resulting links lead to sites that have anything to do with science. And perhaps not so funny the way they all seem to be selling their version of the generator or plans to build one. There is a big difference between an "open mind" and credulousness. The truth is there is not one credible report of one of these things working.

Now lets go to nother internet resource that is not a whole lot more reliable, but at least allows for opposing points of view to come out. If we Wiki Nikola Tesla we get a lot more of the facts about him - he really is quite a famous Engineer and I can vouch for the fact that every engineering student lears about Tesla during first or second year. But wait... where is the info about his free energy machine? Wouldn't that be the zenith of a great career?

Alas, it's not there, because it's BS. A few of Nicola Tesla’s works were related to wireless energy and electro static induction, methods to transfer electrical energy without the need to use wires. The power itself came from conventional electrical generators, it wasn’t free energy and neither was that generated by his devices. And the rest of it is more of the same rumour and inuendo designed to sell somebody's perpetual motion machine...

[Gobbo]

This is without a doubt the worse thread I've read in like years.

I might have to leave forum for a while I'm so mad.

Cause I refuse to explain what the application of a
machine (shown on the MSM even!) that COMBUSTS SALT WATER WOULD BE. Nor am I going to explain why SOCIETY ISN'T JUST GOING TO SERVED YHISE THINGS ON A SILVER PLATTER BY PIL
COMPANIES THAT RUN THE EARTH.

Holy shit. Steam is coming out of my ears.