Human Depression

[lizbethrose]

I'm depressed by the number of people here who seem to do nothing about their depression other than to describe it. It then seems to become a contest--who's the most depressed. It's like being in group therapy, only no one seems able to break out of it. Instead, we seem to wallow in our own depressions. What's the reason for that?

I think--I hope--I'm coming out of my most recent depression which has lasted for at least 15 years.

[Ierrellus]

I'm depressed by the number of people here who seem to do nothing about their depression other than to describe it. It then seems to become a contest--who's the most depressed. It's like being in group therapy, only no one seems able to break out of it. Instead, we seem to wallow in our own depressions. What's the reason for that?

I think--I hope--I'm coming out of my most recent depression which has lasted for at least 15 years.

Good luck on breaking out.
Now, Liz, why the exasperation? Venting leads to recognition that one is not alone. It is not a wallowing in the mire. From it one can progress to the self-confidence needed to combat depression. Walking begins with baby steps!

[FilmSnob]

Liz, I agree with Irelleus. However, I also agree with you: describing the depression is half. The other half, I think, is sharing some solutions or work-arounds that we have found.

Me, I was finally able to buy weed yesterday and smoked with my brother and his girlfriend at his house (basiclaly by myself, they aren't big smokers). Weed, I think, is a wonderful drug for the more painful aspects of depression.

With other drugs, like the oft prescribed valium, one forgets one's troubles for a bit, yet they come rushing back as soon as the trip is done. With weed, I dunno, it's like (good?) sex: there is a pronounced after-glow that you carry with you the next day.

HOWEVER! Weed does not act on your depression independently, like valium does. You can easily get high and make your depression worse. In this sense, weed is like a therapist: you have to work with it, allow it to make you feel better. Personally, my trick is to only have fun with it, no going over problems. This is because weed isn't necessarily euphoria; it has some anxiety-like symptoms like rumination. So, if you ruminate the stuff that keeps getting you down, weed will not help. But if you use it to remember things that you have fun with, or maybe discover new ones, the new-found interest will carry on to sobriety (for a limited amount of time, I would say you have to smoke at least once every two nights).

Also, perhaps weed is like SSRIs: using it once will not help very much, you have to kind of stick with it, at least for a few weeks.

Anyway, good luck breaking out. Personally, I accept depression as an inseparable part of me. My focus is not on curing it but on being able to function with it, to be able to see "light" even in the "darkest" moments. Obviously, this is near impossible if you change nothing in your usual circumstances, and that is why I use weed sometimes.

Also, smoking pot is a blast.

[lizbethrose]

I'm depressed by the number of people here who seem to do nothing about their depression other than to describe it. It then seems to become a contest--who's the most depressed. It's like being in group therapy, only no one seems able to break out of it. Instead, we seem to wallow in our own depressions. What's the reason for that?

I think--I hope--I'm coming out of my most recent depression which has lasted for at least 15 years.

Good luck on breaking out.
Now, Liz, why the exasperation? Venting leads to recognition that one is not alone. It is not a wallowing in the mire. From it one can progress to the self-confidence needed to combat depression. Walking begins with baby steps!

The exasperation comes from so few people talking about what they're doing to try to do anything other than learn how to deal with their depression. I'll probably be on some sort of drug for the rest of my life. That doesn't bother me. Even if you're on drugs, the drug only helps to blunt the depression so you can work things out for yourself--but you have to try to work things out for yourself. That means introspection and questioning yourself. It also means time. It's very hard to describe. If depression is a 'mood disorder,' that's only a part of it. It presents as a lot of different things--from having your "Self" suffocating as if you're encased in a woolen, wet atmosphere--to being just generally unhappy all the time.

If I can claw myself out of the miasma of depression, it's because I've used the time on heavy drugs to not accept myself as I was. I changed (I hope) the thoughts that kept me prisoner--I used my mind, which I think is a pretty good one, to think critically about what had heretofore guided my thinking. Then I started to get rid of the thoughts and beliefs that led me--not into depression--I'll always have that disorder--but into the thoughts and beliefs that kept me so unhappy all the time. Does that make sense?

[lizbethrose]

Liz, I agree with Irelleus. However, I also agree with you: describing the depression is half. The other half, I think, is sharing some solutions or work-arounds that we have found.

Me, I was finally able to buy weed yesterday and smoked with my brother and his girlfriend at his house (basiclaly by myself, they aren't big smokers). Weed, I think, is a wonderful drug for the more painful aspects of depression.

With other drugs, like the oft prescribed valium, one forgets one's troubles for a bit, yet they come rushing back as soon as the trip is done. With weed, I dunno, it's like (good?) sex: there is a pronounced after-glow that you carry with you the next day.

HOWEVER! Weed does not act on your depression independently, like valium does. You can easily get high and make your depression worse. In this sense, weed is like a therapist: you have to work with it, allow it to make you feel better. Personally, my trick is to only have fun with it, no going over problems. This is because weed isn't necessarily euphoria; it has some anxiety-like symptoms like rumination. So, if you ruminate the stuff that keeps getting you down, weed will not help. But if you use it to remember things that you have fun with, or maybe discover new ones, the new-found interest will carry on to sobriety (for a limited amount of time, I would say you have to smoke at least once every two nights).

Also, perhaps weed is like SSRIs: using it once will not help very much, you have to kind of stick with it, at least for a few weeks.

Dear, sweet, Pezer. Thank you, but I can't smoke marijuana; I get quite ill if I try. It could be that the combination of the drugs I've been on and the drug in the "weed" just don't mix--I don't know. I have recommended medical marijuana to friends, people in constant pain from fibromyalgia, or people with nausea from chemo, because I really think it helps in those cases. By the way, you could have a steady supply if you could grow your own. Seeds are available, if you know where to look.

I once had a huge grow-lamp that I bought for a green-house I wanted to build. I can't remember where I got it, and the green-house was never built, so we eventually sold it--probably to a private grower. There are more things than sexual preference where you don't ask and you don't tell.

Anyway, good luck breaking out. Personally, I accept depression as an inseparable part of me. My focus is not on curing it but on being able to function with it, to be able to see "light" even in the "darkest" moments. Obviously, this is near impossible if you change nothing in your usual circumstances, and that is why I use weed sometimes.

Also, smoking pot is a blast.

This is the sort of acceptance I fight against.

[Trevor]

I'm depressed by the number of people here who seem to do nothing about their depression other than to describe it. It then seems to become a contest--who's the most depressed. It's like being in group therapy, only no one seems able to break out of it. Instead, we seem to wallow in our own depressions. What's the reason for that?

A heightened sensation is a heightened sensation nonetheless.

That aside, there's more to life than being a functional citizen. If we have a musician for instance whose lyrics come from his depression, then is he/we better off having him without that depression?

[FilmSnob]

This is the sort of acceptance I fight against.

Acceptance is the first step to recovery.

What is your alternative?

[Moreno]

This is the sort of acceptance I fight against.

I'm with lizbethrose on this one. Some kinds of acceptance are part of healing. This IS how I feel. I have a problem right now I don't know if I can solve. I am afraid of __________. And so on. Getting real with the current situation and perhaps also how long it has gone on. But to assume it is a permanent part of yourself seems unnecessary to me and then also potentially damaging.

[FilmSnob]

Listen, some people get stuck in a rut and feel completely A-OK with it. Some people instead go into a downward emotional spiral of despair.

You are telling me that there is no neurological difference between person A and person B?

[FilmSnob]

Still, Moreno, you are absolutely right recovery-wise.

Sitting there and going "yeah, I'm just one of those depressive types" will make it worse, as opposed to "I'm one of those depressive types: what set me off this time? What can I do about it?"

But going "I am not a depressive, things just REALLY suck" is kind of insulting to people that go through the same ordeals and don't get depressed.

Plus, there is heavy scientific evidence supporting the fact that depression is hereditary. What doeas that mean?

It's either in the genes or in the family way of thinking. Both indicate that specific types of psychologies are prone to depressive episodes.

[FilmSnob]

Or maybe I'm wrong. I'm not quite sure at this point.

[FilmSnob]

Yeap. I was wrong.

Thanks for the reminder Liz, Moreno.

[FilmSnob]

One last thing, and I do believe this is very important:

To each their own.

If you figured out that having slap-in-the-face contests with whiny depressives dressed like dracula helps you want to live, it is your desicion and your desicion alone whether or not it is worth it.

[Moreno]

One last thing, and I do believe this is very important:

To each their own.

If you figured out that having slap-in-the-face contests with whiny depressives dressed like dracula helps you want to live, it is your desicion and your desicion alone whether or not it is worth it.

yes, I agree. I mean, it may work for someone to believe it is permanent, perhaps this might trigger some process they need to go through. And certainly the fear that it might be is likely something that needs to be faced by people who have had it for a long time.

i actually think your suggestion might be useful.

I may have mentioned it in this thread somewhere but there is/was a psychologist whose therapy was called provocative therapy. he would try to figure out how the little voice in each of his clients' minds tortured them, and then he would take on that voice. So a depressed patient would likely hear him say 'there is no hope for someone like you' 'even if you tried, nothing would change' and so on. He felt it was important to really get the specific judgments each individual used. A guilty catholic woman with an eating disorder would get messages tailored not only to her category but specificially matching her own guilt voice. I mention this because the slapping depressives party reminded me of it and also because I think this technique could be effective. He found that many people started to stand up for themselves and also get some distance from the voice that was very effective inside the head but something to react to and have catharsis around when it was coming from another person.

he was a bit of one trick pony, but I think it was a good trick.

He did not explain what he was doing either. To many of his clients, before they caught on, he just seemed like an asshole, once they had the first courage to fight back.

sometimes both would end up laughing.

make me smile even now.

[FilmSnob]

I really like that method, what a guy.

I have often thought about what the ideal therapy would be. My only conclusion is that it would have to be a very free-form thing with two steps: the person that can tell what your problem is, and the person that can help you with that problem. The standardized methods we have today seem to me unfit.

[Moreno]

I really like that method, what a guy.

I have often thought about what the ideal therapy would be. My only conclusion is that it would have to be a very free-form thing with two steps: the person that can tell what your problem is, and the person that can help you with that problem. The standardized methods we have today seem to me unfit.

Well, I just did a google and he's still up and running....

http://www.provocativetherapy.com/

There are a number of mainstream approaches - these days drugs and/or some form of CBTs being the most common. But there are hundreds of alternatives out there, and that's just within the psychotherapy end of things.

Gestalt therapy and psychodrama are approaches that love and have worked with on both sides of the fence. I have seen these work with depressed people, but that's just anecdotal. I have some tendency towards depression and I always found these approaches energizing, but that's me.

[Ierrellus]

In the "sister" thread I mentioned a psychiatrist who slaps patients to get their attention. I don't think that would work with me because I'm overly attentive. I have no idea if my depression is here for a lifetime or not. All I know is it happens and I have to deal with me being down to the best of my ability.

[turtle]

my psychoanalyst says that most persons he sees with depression dont want to do the work that is necessary
to help their problems...

first of all they dont know what is causing their depression....and second they want him to fix it..they dont say that but that is how they behave when it comes to change....

[Ierrellus]

my psychoanalyst says that most persons he sees with depression dont want to do the work that is necessary
to help their problems...

first of all they dont know what is causing their depression....and second they want him to fix it..they dont say that but that is how they behave when it comes to change....

I can trace my depression back geneologically. Where does that come in? If I knew how to redo my genes, I might make more progress than simply coping with and working on symptoms. The inheritance bit is not an excuse for not trying to make things better. It's a present happening. The happening must be dealt with. Causes of depression are multiple, not singular. I do not look to my psychiatrist as a fixit person, but as someone who knows enough to offer me some sort of relief.

[turtle]

my psychoanalyst says that most persons he sees with depression dont want to do the work that is necessary
to help their problems...

first of all they dont know what is causing their depression....and second they want him to fix it..they dont say that but that is how they behave when it comes to change....

I can trace my depression back geneologically. Where does that come in? If I knew how to redo my genes, I might make more progress than simply coping with and working on symptoms. The inheritance bit is not an excuse for not trying to make things better. It's a present happening. The happening must be dealt with. Causes of depression are multiple, not singular. I do not look to my psychiatrist as a fixit person, but as someone who knows enough to offer me some sort of relief.

i wasnt attacking you ierrellus...i am talking about all the people who talk to their doctor 15 minutes and get a pill for something a pill wont fix....in fact the pill may make things worse...i have a big genetic depression load but that doesnt mean all of my depresson can be treated by my ssri.....

[FilmSnob]

For $100 an hour (for the cheap ones), I find it offensive that a therapist would not take the brunt of the load.

[turtle]

For $100 an hour (for the cheap ones), I find it offensive that a therapist would not take the brunt of the load.

the therapist and the person have different jobs and different work...

[Moreno]

In the "sister" thread I mentioned a psychiatrist who slaps patients to get their attention

.You'd better have one helluva good intuition and probably a decent lawyer on retainer with that tactic. I wouldn't rule it out in some very specific instance, but I am skeptical it is a good thing to do with any frequency. A shout or clapping one's hands is very shocking and probably too much in most instances. A slightly irritated tone usually creates instant focus.

A slap just seems like a leap. And then, it is so likely to be abusive.

[turtle]

In the "sister" thread I mentioned a psychiatrist who slaps patients to get their attention

.You'd better have one helluva good intuition and probably a decent lawyer on retainer with that tactic. I wouldn't rule it out in some very specific instance, but I am skeptical it is a good thing to do with any frequency. A shout or clapping one's hands is very shocking and probably too much in most instances. A slightly irritated tone usually creates instant focus.

A slap just seems like a leap. And then, it is so likely to be abusive.

i think slapping is uncalled for under any circumstance...talk about crazy...the psychiatrist is crazy....

[FilmSnob]

Violence is also part of a healthy mind.