Dishonesty In Other Animal Species

[James L Walker]

Are human beings the only animal that can knowlingly be dishonest?

Do other animals posses this ability?

[Stoic Guardian]

Probably, they just can't vocally lie so it would be more suttle.

[Moreno]

Are human beings the only animal that can knowlingly be dishonest?

Do other animals posses this ability?

Animals can pretend, though this includes cues that 'I am not really fighting, just messing around.' That is pretty much taken for a given. I definitely think cats try to give a false impression. I've seen cats many times portray themselves as not embarrassed after they have fallen off something, otherwise been clumsy, jumped into a pane of glass, etc. Oh, I actually think this is a nice time to lick my fur as if nothing happened. I think cats in general have a sense of themeselves as something seen and they try in various ways to not appear exactly as they are - sometimes that is. Of course, perhaps they were infected by us.

The talking apes would lie.

some links on wild animal liars....
http://www.rochester.edu/news/show.php?id=1421

http://www.helium.com/items/1268198-whe ... nformation

http://www.mendeley.com/research/often- ... al-test-1/

[Moreno]

Probably, they just can't vocally lie so it would be more suttle.

Or more blatent, depending on how you view subtlety and blatency.

[Contra-Nietzsche]

Cats are excellent liars. Not only do they lie, but are overly aware you do too. Hence the difficulty to convince it to come out from behind the refridgerator. It meows, but aint budging without the broom scrapping at it to pop it out. Animal psychologist are so stupid, claiming a cat wont grasp yelling at it after it pees on the carpet, supposedly you gotta get them in the act. Ot knows to hide for hours. Knows to be wary first meeting afterwards. Knows once the door opens to keap off the table and totallyact like it wasnt on it, despite being right there. No..... they always know, and they lie. Dogs however.... fucking stupid loud mouth dogs are to stupid to lie, they only tell the truth..... and whats the truth? They a dumbass. All they know how to say.

[Moreno]

Cats are excellent liars. Not only do they lie, but are overly aware you do too. Hence the difficulty to convince it to come out from behind the refridgerator. It meows, but aint budging without the broom scrapping at it to pop it out. Animal psychologist are so stupid, claiming a cat wont grasp yelling at it after it pees on the carpet, supposedly you gotta get them in the act. Ot knows to hide for hours. Knows to be wary first meeting afterwards. Knows once the door opens to keap off the table and totallyact like it wasnt on it, despite being right there. No..... they always know, and they lie. Dogs however.... fucking stupid loud mouth dogs are to stupid to lie, they only tell the truth..... and whats the truth? They a dumbass. All they know how to say.

I've seen dogs lie, or try to, and one of my dogs definitely hid for hours after certain transgressions, giving me a sheepish 'oh, hi' smile when I find him. But overall I agree. And cats are also seductive about so many things, which is a kind of half lie. A dog will beg, I want that, I need that, I will lick your ass for that.

[FilmSnob]

Dogs can and do lie, often. They are just more obvious about it then cats.

Dogs are pack animals, you see, and have evolved to have clear tells (like humans, though they have complex enough brains to work around that).

[Fent]

There's a number of animals that "play dead" in order to deter predators. Possums, snakes, beetles. This is a form of dishonesty, isn't it?

[James L Walker]

There's a number of animals that "play dead" in order to deter predators. Possums, snakes, beetles. This is a form of dishonesty, isn't it?

That is what I thought too but that is usually done by a predator and prey basis.

It is done by two different species also combating against each other.

Either predator chasing after prey or prey evading pedators.

I guess what I am trying to say is I can't think of any animal that is completely dishonest towards it's own peers or members like human beings are towards each other.

Of course superior intelligence probably is the reason for the heavy dishonesty or deception amongst our species towards each other but you will notice no other animal species does this to it's own group of members. At least none that I can think of.

Our species have made it a art form of lying and deceiving each other.

It is estimated that individuals lie about one or two things towards each other on a daily basis for instance.

[Polly]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8ISzf2pryI

Hope the link works, posting from my phone.

[James L Walker]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8ISzf2pryI

Hope the link works, posting from my phone.

Had no proof. Only accusations.

[James L Walker]

Are human beings the only animal that can knowlingly be dishonest?

Do other animals posses this ability?

Animals can pretend, though this includes cues that 'I am not really fighting, just messing around.' That is pretty much taken for a given. I definitely think cats try to give a false impression. I've seen cats many times portray themselves as not embarrassed after they have fallen off something, otherwise been clumsy, jumped into a pane of glass, etc. Oh, I actually think this is a nice time to lick my fur as if nothing happened. I think cats in general have a sense of themeselves as something seen and they try in various ways to not appear exactly as they are - sometimes that is. Of course, perhaps they were infected by us.

The talking apes would lie.

some links on wild animal liars....
http://www.rochester.edu/news/show.php?id=1421

http://www.helium.com/items/1268198-whe ... nformation

http://www.mendeley.com/research/often- ... al-test-1/

Is it bluffing or scare tactics of intimidation?

[Only_Humean]

Are human beings the only animal that can knowlingly be dishonest?

Do other animals posses this ability?

Chimps will deceive their peers about motives and resources. Pretending not to be interested in food/mating opportunities, or acting as though they haven't seen anything so their friends don't get alerted to it. If you google "chimp deception" there are plenty of links.

[James L Walker]

With other animal species deception is used against other animal species but never against their own. It usually revolves around the predator pursuing prey or prey evading predators.

It seems that deception used against other members of the same species is a primate phenomena. Maybe higher intelligence increases the need or desire to deceive others especially others of the same species.

I think there is a difference between the deceptive dishonesty of primates compared to all other animal species. In fact beyond primates I am not convinced other species are capable of intentional dishonesty.

[Stoic Guardian]

Or perhaps simply the ability to do so.

[FilmSnob]

Or perhaps simply the ability to do so.

Aren't the two inevitably linked?

[Stoic Guardian]

Perhaps

[Contra-Nietzsche]

I remember being warned that I need to watch out because Gobbo lies, but never knew that much about the Bonobos and thought I would ever have to worry about such a thing.