Laws of Physics Revisited

Laws of Physics Revisited

I was reading how scientists are discovering how certain parts of the Brain works: but that is the point, we shouldn’t be discovering how the Brain works, we should be inventing how the Brain works, we should be inventing and designing how we would like the Brain to Work, we should be inventing new Brain Designs and new Brain Styles, new interactions, new Observers, new Observer Types.

And if you change the Observer, the ground point from which all is measured and observed and how the Observer interacts with what it observes and measures, you change everything, the very structure of existence changes, you enter a new world, an new universe having new laws of physics, nay, even more, you enter something so new and different that it can’t be described or associated with anything we already know: saying that you enter a new universe with new laws of physics is too reductive, is too modest compared to how deeply all could change, to how hugely different and new, completely new and revolutionary all of the structure of existence and information and interactions and new events occurring can be.

But then which Observer will measure and compare the new Observer to which (and how ?) ? Which will serve as a ground point ? And if the laws of physics are valid for us, how does that translate to what the laws of physics are for the newly designed Observer Type?

But any Observer, interacting or mixing with or measuring a new Brain Contraption would still have to be aware and remember what his laws of physics are compared to what the new Observer sees, but at a certain point the measuring Observer, in order to more fully perceive and measure the new Observer would have to gradually lose his awareness and memory of his original world and laws of physics until he becomes the new Observer ? So then the laws of physics are only a function of which particular Observer is interacting with the physics…

APESTER, APE, THE APE MAN, THE EIGHT

From:

kunstler.com/blog/2012/05/dancing-shoes.html

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Author Profile Page tegmark | May 23, 2012 4:05 AM | Reply

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APE APE APE APE

SHPAK A LAK

Liquid Brainium

So free your Brain Style and Brain Design from the arbitrary choice Natural Evolution or GOD or the Laws of Physics decided to give to it just for fun, just for the kicks of it, just to show how arbitrary they were in designing this specific and peculiar Brain Contraption. It is not necessary to decode “How it Works”, who cares how it works, what importance does that have ? Any way it works is just an arbitrary fluke design choice on behalf of Nature, there is nothing Metaphysical or Absolute or Spiritually Greater or worth more than any design you choose for the Brain to have: nay, the Brain can have any possible design imaginable, can be an infinitely contorted and complex contraption working in trillions of incredible different ways. And in fact, the very fact that there are so many possible Brain Designs, that the possible combinations are surely greater than 10^100 (100 circuits in 10 different configurations and each configuration is a new world, and experience space, and possible interaction and universe space with new laws of physics and new emotion circuits and contraptions and sense organs and so on forever) means that we will never know anything at all, the amount of possiblities to discover is so large that we will never know anything, we know nothing at all, even if we experience some of the trillions of possibilities, we will never know anything at all no matter what and no matter how hard we try. Brains self designing themselves, universes self designing themselves, laws of physics self inventing themselves and such.

Don’t figure out how the Brain works, Invent how it works, Design a new Brain, nay, Invent a new false way of how you want it to work, lie to yourself, lie to the brain, the brain deserves to be lied to, invent brains, do not investigate them or figure out how they work, invent how they work, make it all up, tell lies, never tell the truth and so forth.

So you can design and construct a modified mind that changes its internal circuits according to the images it sees, any image becomes a new neural circuit set, all the brain signals will now be processed by the image (or you can do the opposite and process the brains as bits and information chunks on behalf of images and such) a new brain hence a new world, and the new neural circuits composed and set up according to the image it receives with its eyes (a tree, a car, a forest, whatever) will process the internal signals of the new Brain Mindform Contraption, the new Observer Contraption and so forth.

The Information becomes the Observer (or/and the Observer brecomes the Information ?) and the Observer may use other Brains as its information and such and so on forever, just invent it be crazy, invent the most incredible contraptions you can.

So just like everything you see is a Brain as in Brainium, all is a possible Brain design, nay, is actually a new brain, is a new Observer, then it is all a liquid of Brains, ever changing designs and Observers exploring the space of possibilities of Universes and Worlds and new Laws of Physics…

THE APE, SUBARU SUBARU SUBARU RU RU SUBARU SUBARU SUBARU RU RU JOBSTER LOBSTER APESTER, NO DICE JOB, NO DICE, NO DICE JOSE’ SHPAK A LAK SHPAK A LAK, CONFUSED BARBIE…NO DICE, JOSE’ CONFUSION, NO DICE JOB AND SUCH, BARBIE CONFUSED…

We have to discover/understand it before we can re-invent it.

I quite like it how it is, if some others changed theirs does that go into the gene pool and change things for us too? I’d say we don’t know shit yet, but when we do, I mean really do have mastery over nature, then sure.

Science is a short story, the greatest invention of all will also be the last invention of the Human Race, we will EXIT this world in a jiffy, in a moment and we will be gone (or is it the world as we know it, decode it and format it going to be gone ?).

“We have to discover/understand it before we can re-invent it.”

There is no IT. There is no objective reality, there are only subjective events and sensations, each person a point like event happening in a moment and nothing else.

You can go the route of trying to discover “How the Brain Works” and learn all of the repetitive patterns and rules, and especially keep on applying your logic and implied outside reality world and implied objective reality world (implied because you think your Man Brain and Experience and Your Life experience somehow represents the ONE Objective, Invariant Reality when it is just a random quirk of sensations and mental models and memories of things and sets of events and actions and reactions a randomly designed Observer experiences with no Truth or Objectivity or Deeper Knowledge than any Cartoon World and Simulator you can invent) and then manipulate a new brain accordingly, but you would never know :

1. What exactly the new brain would experience with your “logic” applied to it, since applying your logic, the logic of your world and brain to a new brain would be to make believe that all brains and any observer must operate accordingly, according to something you already know, the new brain as formatted or as designed according to another brain, but since there is no Ultimate Objective Brain, they are all random subjective, arbitrary quirks, you would just be mixing brain styles and the corresponding universes with them. A observes and manipulates B but B could also observe and manipulate A, but both A and B are arbitrary relative quirks and flukes, neither is an absolute reference system, so since there are no absolute reference systems, all brains are just a quirk and random design not containing any truth or any reality at all, just designs, just Information Relationships;

2. How your own brain and world would appear to the modified mind, how it would interpret it, how it would like to apply its “logic” or rules to your own brain, and would like “to see how your own brain works and what happens by manipulating it” and such.

The point is that modifying the Brain and Designing a new brain is such a total and radical departure from anything ever done before, that there is no point of contact between what the new brain and its corresponding universe and new laws of physics observes with what we observe: they are so different and so disjoint, that simple any random and wild manipulation of a brain is equivalent, is equally logical, is equally correct since there is no longer any correct or incorrect operating, there is no longer any logic operating, any history, and connection to anything we model in our mind.

It is the End of Science and the beginning of completely new worlds, there is no longer any linear accumulation of knowledge since the Measuring device containing the accumulated knowledge (our brain) is no longer a fixed and stable invariant item, but a variable, unstable, new Observer open to any events, any interpretations and actions and reactions, and therefore totally alien from us, the most extremely alien and different from us than you can possibly imagine.

What happens when you change the Observer of the Universe ? You also change the universe totally and completely and you discover that there is no fixed universe, only an infinite array of possible observers and universes without any direction, or history, or reference system, not even the reference system of time and space, since time and space is done away with completely in many new types of Observers.

We may approach these experiments very gradually, with very small changes and with simulated universes, since the departure from what we know would be too radical and sudden for our Man Brain to accept and Decode…

“I mean really do have mastery over nature, then sure.”

There is no “nature” and there is no “mastery of nature”, only new designs, new wild and wicked Man Brains doing things completely unknown and alien from us…stick wild chemicals and wild signals in the Man Brain, shove a V8 engine in the Man Brain crazily and irrationally, make a mess, don’t use logic, use ART, make it jump in a new universe…

Oh, what I wrote is all wrong, I am using my logic to disprove my logic and such, so cool, how I love to contradict myself constantly, WORSHIP CONTRADICTION, THE HIGHER MODE OF REASONING, BE WRONG ALWAYS, BE AS WRONG AS POSSIBLE!

THE APE MAN, ALL CONTRADICTIONS ARE OPERATING, ALL OF THE ABOVE IS TRUE AND FALSE AND ANYTHING IN BETWEEN, ETC…

Then why the fuck are you still in this universe? Why don’t you just change your brain already and go somewhere else? You talk about it like it’s so easy, so do it. Bye.

Sayeth Jesus, the Son of Man, the King of the Jews:

“Then why the fuck are you still in this universe? Why don’t you just change your brain already and go somewhere else? You talk about it like it’s so easy, so do it. Bye.”

The APE JOB replies:

It has already been done, just the thought of the Instant Singularity creates it (the old fashion “Technological Singularity” with computers designing themselves into ever smarter minds into an oblivion and singularity is substituted with the New Instant Singularity that just instantly cracks open skulls and sticks wild stuff in the Brain to make it become “Something Else”, etc.), just the thought modifies Minds and creates a new universe, a new reality, the thought creates the new big bang and a new universe, the idea and concept disconnects the mind and the Observer from any underlying physics and all elementary particles, the thought modifies the Observer which renders reality no longer dependent on True or False, Real or Fake, it renders reality independent of the Material substrate, nay, it changes the material substrate into some other kind of material, etc. A New Big Bang.

So it has been done, is being done, the rock on the floor is a New Brain executing a new world, even if this is not true, because it no longer depends on being true, or any categories or logic of your puny mind Jesus, Son of Man, King of the Jews. Now go on and tell your father, GOD, that the rules have changed now, tell him that something else is in control, the someone else is in now in charge. Now, crack open your skull and shove wild stuff in it.

So you see, it is really easy, just imagine a new mind in your thought and brain and execute it and you enter a new Universe. AMEN.

THE APE, SUBARU SUBARU SUBARU RU RU SUBARU SUBARU SUBARU RU RU JOBSTER LOBSTER APESTER, NO DICE JOB, NO DICE, NO DICE JOSE’ SHPAK A LAK SHPAK A LAK, CONFUSED BARBIE…NO DICE, JOSE’ CONFUSION, NO DICE JOB AND SUCH, BARBIE CONFUSED…

I’m not sure I understand you, but this appears to be one of your main points.

The human mind has evolved over millions of years, and the fact that we are still here illustrates that the mind is pretty well adapted to our environment. So before we start monkeying around with the mind in any serious way, it seems we’d be well advised to understand the mind we’ve already got.

As example, suppose in the investigation of our current minds we were to discover that we are actually totally insane. Is this the mind we want to have in charge of designing the new mind??

Your thesis seems to be that we can do a better job of designing the mind than nature has done, and this seems a quite speculative claim.

However, I do agree that we will increasingly see our minds as the point of greatest leverage in regards to all our goals and problems, and that we’ll probably increasingly monkey around with our minds in a pell mell reckless manner, much as we do with everything else.

Statements like this communicate to readers…

Just so you know…

Nameta, if that’s all it is then why are you talking about it like it hasn’t been done yet? First you say “we need to invent it” and then you say “it’s being done all the time already”. Nonsense.

Typist, posts like yours communicate “oh no, someone cursed”. Get your panties straightened out and look at what he and I are saying rationally. You’ll find he’s not saying anything rational (consistency is a requirement from rationality, and he’s clearly not very consistent)

In any case, it was a mistake to post in this thread on my part, I agree with you there. I knew there was no chance he could possibly make a sensible reply, it was futile from the start. He just likes to dance around with new agey words and mysticism and avoids saying anything of substance.

Ok, I straightened out my panties and now see with utter clarity, that you’re not saying anything rational either.

I don’t care about the word FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK.

I’m just offering a friendly tip, your posts will look smarter without such words. If you don’t care, I don’t either.

Alright, you keep on supporting people who say “we need to invent something that people already do all the time”, meanwhile I’ll go talk to people who aren’t posting from the psych ward

I’d say all those things are ‘it/s’. a subject is another kind of non-object.

But, but, but … So let’s put this thing up on two feet. Here’s the deal:

Are the laws of physics invariant for all possible Observers ? If you have Observer1 O1 and Observer2 O2, are the laws of physics the same for both of them such that:

L = f1(O1) = f2(O2)

where L is an invariant form of the Laws of Physics in all possible reference systems according to all possible Observers ( all possible Information Processing Networks in newly designed Brains, all possible Processors), f1 is a particular function relative to the particular design of the particular Observer O1 and f2 is another specific function relative to the specific design of Observer2 O2 such that they transform the expression of all of the invariant repetitive laws discovered in one reference system O1 into the equivalent, but one to one association expression of the corresponding invariant repetitive laws discovered on behalf of Observer2 ?

Does L and f1 and f2 exist for all possible Observers ? And if so, does it even matter ? It matters to us because we like to discover mathematical relationships valid in all possible situations (aka reference systems), but in the end what counts is the Experience the Observer undergoes in his world, and that is his reality and his universe and his laws of physics.

On the one hand, I doubt that L, f1 and f2 can exist given how radically different an Observer (a Processor) design can be, aside from the fact that you can hard wire Observers so that they can never discover their underlying laws or any laws, or you can hard wire an Observer - Processor to perceive any wild and random laws as far out and detached and unrelated to our laws (or other laws of physics existing for any other observers - processors) as possible, or hard wire an observer so that it always only Lies to itself and falsifies (simulates ?) all reality.

On the other hand, no matter how hard we try, we are always seeing everything through our reference system, our logic and our laws of physics, we are chained into a fixed f1 and O1 so to say and cannot say anything at all about f2 and O2, or something like that. And even if we can see some of what O2 sees, and even if we mix O1 and O2, and even anything else, no matter how hard we try, we can never be all possible Observers, and see things through all possible Observers, we will always format everything automatically according to what we already know, to some kind of fixed but arbitrary logic and processing machine, etc. We are trapped in our reference system no matter how hard we try to escape it and see beyond it and see a number of distinct reference systems from a more general reference system, from the outside looking in so to say, but we are never outside, we are always inside since we are trapped into some very simple laws from the outset like the Identity Principle and the Principles of Non Contradiction and such (and Space and Time and Extension references and so on).

So the only solution is to simply crack open skulls, crack open your own skull and pour wild stuff in it, design crazy circuits and contraptions and stick it in you skull, Jethro Skull, go for it man, or simply assign the V8 Engine as a new Man Brain and Observe what it is observing from the outside, imagine how the world appears to that engine and such, be crazy, be wild, party on folks, party on…

TOBOR THE EIGHTH MAN

Who is going to write the equation L = f1(O1) = f2(O2) ? Who is, what is the Ultimate Brain Design that can see what all possible brain designs have in common ? So if the Absolute Processor, Absolute Observer Oa can write the equation, then the equation is valid also for itself hence L = fa(Oa), but then that means all Brain designs are equivalent, they are all just the same Processor. But then that would mean something similar to a baby being equivalent to an adult (or a rock being equivalent to you, since all items are possible Brain designs, as in Brainium), they know the same thing, and then to verify the equation, you would need a different Processor from Oa, an Oc to confirm the truth Oa finds, the equation Oa finds. But then Observer Oa and Observer Oc (confirmer) would have to live in some kind of Same Reference System, same Universe with the same Laws of Physics and such, demonstrating the equation even before knowing the Observers and such. And then if you choose a Rock as a random new Brain Design and random Observer, that Rock would have to communicate to you that the Absolute Observer is right, or would have to send some information to confirm this, but a Rock cannot talk and such.

The observer writing and confirming the equation would have to be some kind of superset of all possible observers and live in some kind of superset of all possible universes and so on. Of course the universe is a function of the observer (once an observer, for example a Man Brain with eyes and touch and sound and logic decoding the world according to space and time is designed and invented, the universe where that observer can live and interact is also defined, one implies the other, etc.), so once an observer is established, so is his universe and such, but then it can never be a superset of all universes and observers it will always fall back into just another distinct random observer, maybe having many properties and looking like a superset, but effectively being only just another plain observer, etc.

And then you can always assign an Observer O3 that wants to contradict or lie or simply doesn’t want to abide to the equation, who is going to tell that Observer that Oa is correct, and what does the rebel Observer even care about Oa, he can dismiss Oa as being nothing at all and such.

But then by the same reasoning, you can assign an Absolute Observer where the equation is true and another Absolute Observer where the equation is false and so on and this can justify inventing anything at all, any truth at all since you can assign the rules of verification in any way you want, you can invent all and assign all True or False or Anything else and so on and such. You can also define and assign yourself as the Absolute Observer deciding all, just like I like to do, just like the APE JOB does, and wait for the rock to contradict you or wait for another Observer to contradict you, but then the other observer would have to speak your language and decode the world according to how you decode it, but then it wouldn’t be a very different observer from you, so you can always assign an observer that can’t contradict you (or can contradict you, according to what you want to demonstrate), or you can always say the rock is the Absolute Observer, etc.

Hence this is the End of Science, as soon as you start changing the brain, you enter new worlds where Science is no longer operating.

Yes.
Else they aren’t the “Laws of Physics”.

In fact, what I am searching for are the most General Laws of Physics possible given any possible Observer or Processor design. And this project is destined to fail because it is always biased by my own Universe and Reference System from which I will never be able to escape unless I become something else, totally alien and totally non communicable.

The design of the Observer defines the design of the Universe that the Observer will interact with, the design of the Observer implies automatically, from the outset, the only kind of universe and hence laws of physics that it can live in and have, the set of Information Relationships that it can express and “Experience”, as the kind of life it can Experience, etc.

Interesting to see how Man has gone from being the center of all in old religions and even Science, to being an ever more relative item compared to the rest of the Universe, and then at the End of Science, he becomes once again the center of all, as the design of Man defines the universe he can interact and live in, but at the same time, automatically makes the design of man the utmost arbitrary and random choice, just a fluke choice amongst many trillions of possible Observer designs, of possible Processor designs and formats, and each Processor design can interact with a completely different Universe and set of laws of Physics. And hence even Man’s universe is just one of many possible Universes and Laws of Physics, his very Science and Logic becomes Arbitrary and Relative, the last substance of any ground and reference system evaporates forever. Bye, bye any Absolutes…

We are just a number written on a wall, with other numbers looking at us…

Sounds like a good reason to abandon that mental paradigm and start over with something more sensible.

We are always fighting our “Mental Model” of things, of the way we imagine that they are supposed to be, etc.: but things are independent from any of our Mental Models and we are always surprised to discover how random and independent from us or any model we have in our mind reality is. And we fight ourselves because reality contradicts our Mental Model, what “We Thought Should and Would Happen” and such: like I wanted my kid to go to college (Mental Model) but instead he became a thug and such, and so I fight myself and try to force reality to abide to the Mental Model, when the Mental Model was false and must be hosed, accept reality and give up, etc. Don’t fight yourself, jut accept Reality and get rid of any Mental Models or Plans or Projects or Expectations, etc.

Back on Dice: in order to help you all contradict me, I will give you a clue: it is true that the Observer implies a Universe that he can Observe according to how he is designed, the Observer fits in perfectly with the way the Universe he Observes is designed (according to how he himself is designed, a kind of positive feedback loop fitting the Observer to his Universe, each to each other perfectly, one implies the other) and how he Interacts with it and the fixed set of events the Observer and the Outside Universe expect to occur during the lifetime of the Observer (the possible Information Relationship Set and Reciprocal Interaction Set).

But the design process that created the Observer (the Man Brain as we know it and according to the Universe as we know it) was executed by Natural Evolution, through a gradual adaptation of every new “Functionality” to the environment in which the Observer found himself in, through a constant testing and trying of each small change, making only the most functional changes survive etc. Compare this to the imagined “Instant Singularity” where there is no “Evolution” or trial and error process, but a one shot radical change of the Observer and the expectation that this Observer can survive and Live and Be Conscious in a new imagined Universe (or his Universe).

But we can imagine that all and all we are simply inside an artificial contraption where Natural Evolution and the gradual trial and error adaptation is just a make believe, a simulation, just a joke. And we can imagine any other contraption with any other radically new and one shot designed Observer Instantly adapated to a corresponding Universe and Law of Physics, as fake as can be, but since the only thing that really matters is the one shot sequence of point like events the Observer is experiencing and “Living”, Evolution and Gradual are not not necessary, only the Information Relationship Set and Interaction Set count and are effectively perceived by the Observer as he lives in this “Artificial Universe”: we may very well all the same be inside an “Artificial Universe” of some alien race, where a microsecond of ours is a year of theirs or a year of our life is a microsecond of theirs and so on.