Rationality is overrated

No. It would be self contradicting or nonsensical if he said rationality was worthless. To say it is overrated entails that it has value. In fact he clearly Points ou that it has value.

And he did not say that being rational is wrong, so he is not betraying his own stance. He is Writing about what he considers to be the overuse and misues of rationality. Nowhere does he say it should be eliminated or not used.

Back a day and already tired of them. There are simple solutions to this problem of yours. REading more carefully might help, but there are other more completely protective solutions.

Volchock comprehension fail.

Did you just read the title of the thread and then type a response?

That’s what it seems like.

I read about half of it.
He’s saying some people use our rationality against us, but personally I think that is difficult to do.

So Gib,
you mention situations where you Think one should step out of rationality - my wording. With politicians, for example. How does one decide to do this? Is it simply due to the category of the person talkign to you? Are their warning signals? How do you decide to step outside of rationality? Is it the last rational decision you make in that encounter? Do you get a gut feeling and stop listening in a rational way?
What happens?

I dunno dan, you’re a pretty smart guy. You don’t think you could employ your mastery of rationality to your advantage over another person in a 1 to 1 negotiation?

I think what Gib is describing, is similar to how someone can screw with you if you are too civilized, and you wont fight back or punish them as much as if you were not civilized. But we switch the word civilized with the word rational. Also being really rational can be similar to being naive, if you project it and think that everyone else and the world is rational. Then suddenly irrational stuff pops up and you don’t expect it so you’re less prepared. “Rational” is a form of ideals. It’s a big ideal like wisdom. But it is christianized or derived from christian philosophy in some cases, so that peace seems rational, and war seems irrational. That’s just one example. I think there is such a thing as pure rationality, which is not a form of morality or what have you, but, that is not common rationality.

When I think of reason, I think of just anyone saying anything to support anything they say and in that simply giving “a reason”.

When I think of rationality, I think of a calculated, informed choice being made through an analyzation of the issue at hand, and the conclusion about the action to be taken as one which is a result of that analysation combined with a proper logical methodology.

If you ask, “why’d you rob that liquor store?” and I reply, “Because I wanted to.”, Then I’m being reasonable.

If you ask, “why did you choose this tv instead of the other”, I might say, “because it had more hdmi ports, and the cost was lower and the picture quality was higher than all of the other options in front of me when I analyzed the issue in question”, then I"m being rational.

Personally, I let my rationality battle my emotions and desires, and dominate them, and manipulate them, and control them. I figure it is the best choice. Your definition of rationality looks like it is sort of deviating away from the dictionaries.

It could be dan. I just think that a guy can be reasonable but not rational. There’s a distinct line between them.

But you’re right on with the old philosophical question, “should reason be the slave of passion, or vice versa?” I think it’s a matter of preference. Some people like to scream and shout, and other people like to calculate the proper answer to the problem. I think when it comes to people who are able to calculate instead of scream and shout, that there’s a risk that they may use this ability to their advantage at the expense of others.

I think pleasure is far more over-rated than rationality. Who gives a poo about rationality? Who ponders it? But when it comes to pleasures, people need their fix, usually. Over-rating things is usually better than under-rating them, though. If I lived in a society where people wanted to be entirely reasonable, I think that would have more good than bad consequences.

biblehub.com/jeremiah/17-9.htm

I dislike how this sounds, but emotionalism has its evils. Then there is the phenom of love.
I don’t know, would you rather be a chimp or a robot? We have poor options at times.

To me these are two very different questions. Nearly everyone gives a poo about rationality. Note this does not mean they are good at being rational. But everyone argues, supports their arguments or Thinks they do, makes logic sounds (‘and that’s why’ ‘which clearly leads to’ ‘you can tell because’), and explains pretty much Everything from why Nike is better than Addidas, to why there is or isn’t a God, to every political conclusion possible, to why they should get to stay up late to…I mean Everything. Because, because, because of all of the wonderful things he does. They argue and convince themselves of all sorts of things too. There’s that confused skeptical expression you can see on spouses’, children’s parent’s, employers’, employee’s, voters’, potential buyers’ faces while they are under the waterfall of reasoning other people are aiming at them. Often they don’t know why it is bullshit, but they know bullshit when they hear it. Or they don’t and get suckered in.

Who ponders rationality? Now that is a small Group.

I have more in common with a chimp. And I mean that as a compliment to me.

Are you sure? How much do they care about it on the 1 to 10 ?

Clearly, it has enough value to be used as a mechanism for constructing arguments. Otherwise, he wouldn’t have claimed that “Rationality IS overrated”.
That assertion was uttered as a fact, and apparently we should act accordingly. In other words, his case amounts to the following: Let’s be rational because rationality is overrated.

In the sense that they want to sound like their decisions, politics, tastes, and more are right and generally that other people are wrong, 10. Again, I am not saying they are good at it.

Well, that what assertions are like.

No, that’s not what he is saying. Please actually read his OP and respond to that or find Another thread that you are interested enough in to read well. If you disagree with some of the Points he makes in the post, then explain what you Think is incorrect and why - and with quotes, since you seem to be responding to some other post.

And Volchok you were clearly wrong in your first post, since he makes statements that make very clear he is not ruling out rationality. Instead of admitting that you were wrong, you now try Another angle.

If Vol didn’t read the OP I will be depressed.

Well I hate to depress you but…

In the OP…

Volchok’s response

he seems to Think that since Gib is making assertions and arguments -iow being rational- the OP is nonsense. But Gib makes it clear he is talking about certain situations, and he makes this clear even Before the utterly clear part I quoted above.

If the thread was titled ‘Rationality is worthless’ and then went on to argue that idea, then Volchok’s response would make sense.

Edit: ladyjane has done what Volchok is responding to, however, but not Gib.

Alright. I’ll try to survive despite that.
edit: I also read the rest of the OP later after my first response.

I have faith in you.