I’m with Arc about the nonexistence of a literal afterlife hell. Hell is here and now. My ex, now deceased, used to say hell is what’s on Earth for people of another planet. I wouldn’t go that far. I recognize that we are all born under a death sentence. Our pitiful lives deserve neither an afterlife heaven or hell. And, what if this life is all we have? I’d rather believe in universal salvation, that nothing living can be lost or forever estranged from the God of whom we are a part. Yes, I’m pantheistic.
Perhaps valueless to us - but to what remains still useful.
A thing that does not exist has no consciusness nor can there be an experience.
turtle
Turtle, for me, that’s not a belief system - it’s half knowledge half intuition. 
interesting…not a belief system…
turtle
So, what’s the point you’re trying to make here?
I believe what you believe…my beliefs are a belief system…yours are not a belief system 
turtle,
But I don’t believe turtle. I’m kind of a skeptic. I need proof.
I haven’t taken that final step…i’m pretty much away from the edge of that leap.
I contemplate, wonder, sensate and experience and it’s meaningful and valuable to me. That experience of qualia takes place within my mind and in my being but it isn’t necessarily the bottom line…more like the first lines of the book. I don’t call what i experience to be proven fact or knowledge…maybe must the entertaining of possibilities.
Is that belief?
you got me…I am a dummy…i like what you are saying…
Sure, you’re a dummy - like a fox, turtle.
dummies-----------please look at… the post-----[I believe in god]…
it may turn out to be a very good discussion…please join in
it may be talking about life and the universe and what it is all about…
without all the distorted god stuff…throw out all the bad theology
Am on there. It seems to be another horse race between ideas and ideals.
you could look at that way but it doesn’t have to be…
us dummies-----------where is everybody
See Greatest I Am’s thread on universalism in the religious forum. It’s mostly what I believe.
very interesting ideas…I like the kindness and caring of jesus…
Meant extinct after death–oblivion of the senses.
Not IF - WHEN ~ which means that in the HERE AND NOW, we choose or not to see life as precious and valuable.
I also know that at some point I will be no more. So for now, any discussion of a so-called after life, since we cannot know, is just a moot point.
All we have is the present moment.
yes the present moment…that is all we have
that heaven thing is a preposterous delusion…unbelievable wish fulfillment
If heaven is wish fulfillment, what hope is there for those who know hell on earth?
we all are in hell on earth…the real problem is inaction…if you are being tortured it is better to try to escape than hope for a better life after death…