Will heathendom (pagandom) bring freedom back to us?

Heathen is too broad a term. It more or less means, not Jewish/Christian and I suppose Islamic. So heathens lead all sorts of kinds of lives. I am not sure he has to live it in any particular way. Those heathens who might resist the current winning worldview also do this in a variety of ways.

That’s correct.

But not a monotheistic one, right?

Yes, but how exactly?

If only technically.

How should a heathen live to bring freedom back? (is that the question?)
It depends on what lines of causation one believes in. Which varies from heathen to heathen.

What’s your answer?

And if it’s earlier in the thread, just let me know where.

Instaed of “monotheistic” one could also and perhaps more correctly say “henotheistic”.

The question is more how they really live their life religiously!

Therefore my questions. I wonder why those members of this forum, who call themselves “heathens”, don’t answer my questions. I asked them repeatedly (for example here and here and here and here and here and here and here and here), especially Maia who calls herself “heathen”. … No answer!

You are no heathen, aren’t you?

A serious question: Is that really pagan or just femninistic, thus: politically correct?

Make what we will?

I think Christianity is probably a lot less burtal than ancient Greek religion for example. Not all ancient religions were nice. Some of it was worse.

Yes, of course, and therefore my questions (for example here and here and here and here and here and here and here and here and here and here), but they dare not to answer. Are they cowards? If yes, then they are no heathens, right?

Maybe you need to change how you ask your questions.
Some people, for example, find it easier to understand a wordy drawn out paragraph, while other people only need one sentence.

Some people think that life is like a lock and you only need one right key to fix it.
So they would say christianity is the key, or they’d even say paganism is the key.
I think the facts are that life needs a lot of keys and necessarily cannot be perfect.
That is a big issue for a christian, because his or her god is supposed to be perfect.
On the other hand, in polytheism the gods are not perfect, I think, with what little I’ve read.

In polytheism the gods are not perfect because they have to be like humans, and humans are not perfect. In polytheism the gods have just the purpose to be the projection surface of the humans, and therefor they must be imperfect.

It is a kind of arrogance or even megalomania to say that merely the non-monotheistic religions are heathen religions. Nonetheless: Heathen religions can also be arrogant or megalomaniac and say that all non-heathen religions are inferior.

B.t.w.: “Monotheism” should be called “henotheism” because the other god is known and thereby accepted by each of the “monotheisms”.

Is it acceptable if we say that polytheism is part of paganism? If so - and I say: yes, polytheism is part of paganism -, then we can also say that monotheism is less tolerant than polytheism. Thereby the probability for the following declaration rises: yes, the heathendom will bring freedom back to us (=> #)). But this heathendom would have to be very powerful, because the montheistic religions do not want the heathendom to be powerful.

As a heathen, I think it would be odd for me to tell heathens how they should live, which a statement of how a heathen should live is a basic form of. Apart from the category issue - ‘as a non-dualist here’s how people who are non-dualists should live’ (or pick some other category beginning with non- and encompassing many different types of groups - it’s more of an Abrahamic way of thinking, at least from this heathen’s perspective. There are some heathen, clearly, who think they know how everyone should live.

“Abrahamic way of thinking”? Abrahamic is monotheistic, [size=120]not[/size] heanthenish!

And “‘as a non-dualist’”? What do you exactly mean?

Right, that was my point. To ask how a heathen should live seems to have the kind of universal, rigid morality I associate more with Abrahamic religions. IOW the question seems an odd one to put to heathens.

I meant that heathen is a category based on a negative. People who are not people of the Book or whatever. So I picked another group defined in the negative: could be monists, could be people who believe in the four elements (or five like some Chinese do), could be other people whose beliefs are categorized as not dualistic. To ask one of these people to give an answer to how members this odd batch of
belief systems SHOULD act or think, is weird, I think.

To go back to the OP and Arminius. I would not want to say that heathen today should take up arms against what makes for modern Rome. I would not want to say they should not. Certainly issues of freedom play into my not wanting to state what heathens should do. And then also the category issue I have raised, hopefully more clearly this time.

Arminius strategy was a holding action, ultimately. The civilized barbarians have taken over all Germanic lands. In fact Germanic peoples are prime members of the civilized barbarians these days.

But just because it ultimately failed, that doesn’t mean I want to use that to develop a should for heathens based on that failure.

So you unite heathendom with montheism without any problem? What you are then? A heathenish Monotheist or a monotheistic heathen?

Must be poor wording on my part because that is not what I am saying.

I am saying that the act of stating what heathens should do is odd. Why? Stating what all members of my group X should do is rather Abrahamic to me. Like I should tell all pagans how to live their lives and how they should struggle for freedom. LIke I can make that kind of rule. And a rule about what they should do. Which is even more resrictive than a rule about what they should not do, at least in many cases, since it compells towards a specific life.

I am not saying that being a heathen is like being a monotheist/Abrahamist.

It is that act of laying out what should be done that seems more Abrahamic than heathen to me. My objection works on the assumption that these groups are different.

Ah, okay. So you don’t unite them. That’s okay. Else you would try to unite fire and water.

Oh, yes, they are! They are very much different, more different than all others from each other!

Why did so many heathens became monotheists? What was the success of the missionaries?

1.) Chosen people in the case of the Judaism?
2.) Salvation (especially by Jesus) in the case of the Christendom / Christianity?
3.) Capture / conquest and power by war in the case of the Islam / Mussulmans / Mussulmen?

Will also many monotheists become heathens? And without missionaries?

1.) ?
2.) ?
3.) ?

its the old inverted pyramid my friends. From the worship of the one, the one and only, descend to the worship of the many. The many each unto it’s own worship, even if it’s the self. And finally that vanishes into the nihilistic none. No one seems to understand, no one tries to appear as if they don’t, but the political miasma draws them away from such an intangible, dangerous mystery, even while knowingly suspecting it. Theosophy,the science of mind , and the gnostic Jesus would prevent the ultimate descent into this kind of absolute freedom.

In the americas the devastation of the series of plagues brought over by Europeans no doubt gutted the cultures, then murder, colonialization, systematic rape, forced suppression of cultures, and so on. This also happened in Europe, though not with the unintentional germ warfare as a softening up bombardment. Once colonialism is in place, and this was true in Europe and the Americas and everywhere else the babies of Rome have gone, then there are punishments for not being a monotheist and rewards for being one. The former including the death of you and your family. Often children were schooled separately from their parents and culture.

Certain forms of paganism had some kind of power worship, winners have spiritual power or some related meme. So if you lose, it undermines the religion. (of course the citizens in monotheist cultures and Romanmachine armies have lost completely in advance, but that is another story)

I noticed a trend in this direct in the 90s-00s. NOt that most of these were believers in monotheism who shifted, but they came out of the ranks of once monotheistic genetic lines.

Missionaries today tend to market their ideas. You could look at the traditional missionary as marketing ideas, but I think you probably get my drift.

By loving the words of their fathers.

That is probably the reason why they can not be as successful as the former missionaries were. Maybe that is also the reason why some heathens of this forum (I don’t mean you and some others) don’t answer my questions, because they are no real but marketed, merchandised heathens. Nonetheless I appreciate their reservation, but with a mere reservation they can not so easiliy become more as they would, if they were less reserved, less distant. But probably there is no other way, if an honest religion is exercised. However: a marketed heathen seems to be similar to - for example -a marketed hippie, or a marketed punk, or a marketed rapper.

My questions can be found here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here.

Moreno, you are the only one who has answered one of those questions, namely this one: You are no heathen, aren’t you? Your indirect answer “As a heathen, I think …”. Thank you.