Will heathendom (pagandom) bring freedom back to us?

My tentative answer was blocked by moderation and then buried in the thread. I’m quoting it:

I posted Polonius as an example of advice from a loving father, not as intended to be THE way to live.

So,like,not your words.

Polonius was well-intentioned, but pretty muddleheaded and couldn’t follow his own advice.

Like many parents :slight_smile:

A “heathen” may draw his motivation for a good conduct in honoring his ancestry…
To not engage in actions that would shame his name.
To love his parents and grandparents and those that came before so that he wishes to make them proud.
To have self pride and self love from belonging to this lineage/culture, and to wish to preserve it.

What if a serious break from that lineage needs to be made?

And I said, So,like,not your words.
Since I got the impression you are a woman.

The only situation in which such a break would occur would be in the case in which the parents failed to… indoctrinate the child with their values, or that the child has broken from his indoctrination, such that his values differ from those of his ancestry.
In this case, one may embrace the values of a different culture and begin a new tradition by passing it along to his children.

If you can’t draw motivation from your ancestry, you can draw it from becoming ancestry… for your descendants.

If you don’t want to have children, then who cares? Piss on your food and shit on your bed and hope to die soon :slight_smile:

From my use of “fathers”?
It is meant as ancestry, think nothing of it.
And from what do you gather I am female? By the “a” at the end of the name, the female form of the word?

That is what a heathen should do, yes.

Actually it is what all human beings should do, but nihilistic human beings are not able to do.

So the question is not only heathendom versus monotheism, but also heathendom versus nihilism.

Another name for that is “Blind Faith”.

Would you care to elaborate, dear?

Your proposal was that a “proper heathen” would always simply have pride in his ancestors and/or culture. But inevitably, one discovers that their ancestors weren’t quite right about a lot of things. Your suggestion is that they continue to follow the ways of the ancestors regardless of what they learn. That is what we call “Blind Faith”. That is what “Christians”, Jews, and Muslims are already doing.

Should we say “heathendom / monotheism / nihilism versus … (put in the right word) …”?

Probably we can’t overcome monotheism because it exists and -especially - because we know that it exists. So we can’t forget it or it will take a very long time to forget it. A very Long time, although not als long as it takes to forget nihilism and especially the meaning of nihilism.

What brings the greatest freedom ever achieved is, in effect, going through monotheism, beyond it. If you were to totally destroy it, it would merely come back again, and probably with a vengeance.

The actual problem with monotheism that inhibits freedom is the presumption of socialism = reaching for too much control over too much and too many. What yields more power, leads to too much power. That is the state that Man finds himself in over and over.

By “working through monotheism”, one discovers cooperative distribution of wealth of power. At that point, there is never too much power because the wealth is never concentrated. The concentration of the wealth is the foundation of “too much”.

Heathenism merely breaks up power into chaos, reducing the total power and thus allowing for certain freedoms if there had been too much, but also taking away productive power and thus reducing opportunities and thus reducing freedoms. So yes, certain freedoms would return through heathenism. But certain freedoms would also be removed.

Much like Science, the real answers are beyond the current mindset. Merely removing the current accomplishes nothing but temporary chaos while a different regime takes over and reestablishes the same ole story but with new weapons added to ensure that it cannot be defeated again.

Thus in the long run, heathenism brings less freedom, not more because what didn’t completely kill it, made it stronger.

You must have missed my post from Mon Jun 09, 2014 12:06 am.

Similar to a relationship of a boy and a father. The boy becomes a teenager and disagrees with the father, but respects his authority as he lives under his roof. When reaching adulthood, some men break with their fathers completely, while some come to see their father as a sort of a hero. I see this in a way as a sign of the quality of the father/fathering.

But as we know the monotheisms are not equal. One (Christianity) is weak, the others are strong.

Heathendom will bring freedom back only then, if monotheism is completely deleted from the memory. So heathendom has to wait.

If the heathendom wants to be more successful, it has to become political in order to eliminate the monotheistic memory.

But probably it does not want to be more successful, and probably it is the right decision because of the monotheistic envy and revenge.

Well, sure. And this will always be the case to some degree, unless one is incapable of being critical or finding one’s own way.

And both of these will happen consciously or not in most cases, even when the person tries really hard to simply parrot the parents. So I don’t really see the need to consciously strive to fit in with a lineage. What one is aligned with, one is aligned with. What one is not, one is not. It would likely be a good subject for mulling on occasion, if one does not already know why one does not continue a line. But other than that I can’t see the use of it unless one wants to deindividualize. And let me be clear. This does not entail one throws away everything or starts from scratch.

Well, murderess…sure, though it was more of an intuitive reaction, perhaps with that in there.

I think, heathendom will as long remain a small religious group of a minority as monotheism remains in the memory.

One must aim for the balance of refining the old, while respecting it.
It is every generation’s duty to improve on the previous one, not to deface it.

It can’t be helped.

Where is this duty coming from? This is usually conceived of a requirment imposed by custom or religion/God. Why not simply see it as a good thing for an organism, person or other, to do its best, something its desire will (or won’t) drive it towards. And if it has no desire to do this but does it - or really, tries to conform to the idea of it - due to a conception of duty, how can it work? What does this conception of duty add except perhaps guilt or shame?

True, one is generally give one’s sex, though nowadays one can choose to change it at least in certain ways.

Would you mind going into details?