Will machines completely replace all human beings?

there will be a showdown of the ultimate 1-2-3, energy will play the key card and machines and population levels irrespective of rich or poor will take the backseat. so the showdown at ok corall will be between machines and people. will there be a war of the worlds? looks like it unless the place energy plays into this scheme can be changed.I would say out people front and center and let the machines work it out with their source of power. Let machines die a RESPECTFUL death, or, let them become energy sufficient to the degree as these sources decline. machines should be calibrated;to utilize and upgrade their efficiency in direct proportion to energy depletion/conversion

Hyperbolism, hedonism, utilitarianism, individualism and all the other nihilisms are those problems, which became as much bigger as the attempt to control them in order to prevent chaos, anarchy, and - last but not least - overthrow, downfall. It’s a vicious circle.

So a solution of the three great modern human erros or mistakes seems to be impossible: 1.) the disproportionate and thus wrong/false input of machines; 2.) the disproportionate and thus wrong/false demographic policy (population policy); 3.) the disproportionate and thus wrong/false concentration on energetic resources (instead of knowledge, wisdom, information) by the money economy.

No one wants to take responsibility!

Do you have any suggestion?

As pointed out earlier, we are looking at peak oil, global warming coupled with environmental damage, and one financial crisis after another.

Yes. Naturalism. This is not a nihilism. Simply put, let nature take it’s it’s irresistible course, the recalibration of its powers, let it be.

What happens then? When no amount of mechanistic interference can correct but cosmetically make it as appear corrected? Politics of selfhood will automatically clash first, resulting in wars, again corrective and made up wars, to try to contain the major faults, which could destroy the whole lubricious edifice.

Let it be and these minor skirmishes , these plastic ancient stab in the back desert acts, will be enough to mystify and confound. Actually, it is the desert where the source of power lies, and it is in the desert where these powers where the plastic acts play out. But as plastic goes, it is as virtual as it gets, try connecting ancient texts with shadowy, shallow one dimensional representations of them?

Your circular reasoning makes sense thus, but it is an ellipse no? The viscousness of the circle sucks in more information but gathers it in it’s hungry mouth of a singularity, and seems to swallow it whole. But is this what happens? No. It is chewed up and spit out, and again reassembled in some other far out galaxy, perhaps , as You and me, again rearguing this unaware, that this has been going on since for ever.

I think some of the worry is predicated in the negativity of dismissing similitude, as a model, and the fear of castration has a lot to do with it.

Nature will take care of it, and to see things in a completely different light as say before the en-lightenment, is an error of perception and not of reception. We live in constant angst, because of this structural misapprehension of the difference. Nature will be due for a gross correction, whatever new machines are put in place.

Remember, the human machine, is as of yet unparalleled, and, when the machine gets into critical proximity, all hell will be set loose, and the machine flung there.

Probably it is an spiralic ellipse, in any case a spiralic (spiral-cyclic) development.

What could be the “singularity” you mentioned?

Why is there this huge disproportion between (1.) machines and humans to the disadvantage of humans, (2.) population of poor and population of rich countries to the disadvantage of about 99% of all humans; (3.) energetic resources and other resources to the disadvantage of non-energetic resources?

The first impression may be that there is no disadvantage of humans (=> 1.), of about 99% of all humans (=> 2.), of non-enegertic resources (=> 3.), but is that really true? The paradox is that the past, present, and some of the future advantages will change to disadvantages in the (long run) future. So we can call this “advantages” as “short advantages”, or as “pretended advantages”, or even as “disadvantages” because the prize is to high, and the prize has to be paid by all humans: the probable extinction of the humans because of a very short moment of wealth for very few generations of the humans!

So if we want to keep wealth, we have to correct the three great modern human errors or mistakes (=> 1., 2., 3.). The only alternative to that correction is the extinction of all humans.

We must take another direction and slow down.

And which currencies do you suggest?

A text from MNN:

Besides the fact that Hawking’s statement "that they could develop intelligence " is stupid - because computers have been developing intelligence for so long - the danger is real that machines take over the world. The probability is about 80%, I estimate.

They would have to be newly created, although the current “greenback” could be used as one of the three (for example).

And look at his solution for the possible problem ==> Redesign the human DNA.

Either way, humanity is lost. And how does the media treat it all? “Mutations occur all the time”. “Now in then in nature, sudden cataclysmic changes in DNA genes shift the balance of life.” “You might get super-powers as a mutant.” “Look how much easier life is for those with implants.” “Professionals always use technological enhancements.”…

I would say that 80% is a low estimate.

As one of the three, yes, that is possible.

Maybe. I have included my wishes and hopes. :sunglasses:

“We could be in the Matrix right now” - what do you think about that statement?

Depending on who you mean by “we” and by using the proper metaphor, “we” definitely are.

The issue is one of believing what you see from the media. The media spins a virtual reality image of world events, fake or at least strongly exaggerated. So what the average person believes to be real, is “just a program”. They live in that program as a part of it without realizing how much of it is fake. Some things are supposed to be believed as fake so as to give creditability to other things. It’s just psychological trickery played on the masses.

Morpheus, in the story is trying to find Neo, a super hero who can “get in the system/program and help the Zionists free the people and save Zion from the evil Architect of the ‘System’”. So metaphorically speaking, it is largely an account of reality.

But no, I don’t think that my mind is physically connected to a large physical massive computer wherein I am but a small program inside, unless you are talking about the universe itself.

My particular issue is that I believe BOTH sides of that fight are sociopathic mass murderers.

That reminds us of Platon’s “Cave Allegory”:

                                       [img]http://tamayaosbc.files.wordpress.com/2008/07/platocave.jpg[/img]

Like prisoners people are chained in a cave, unable to turn their heads. All they can see is the wall of the cave. Behind them burns a fire. Between the fire and the prisoners there is a parapet, along which puppeteers can walk. The puppeteers, who are behind the prisoners, hold up puppets that cast shadows on the wall of the cave. The prisoners are unable to see these puppets, the real objects, that pass behind them. What the prisoners see and hear are shadows and echoes cast by objects that they do not see. If the prisoners were released, they could turn their heads and see the real objects. Then they would realize their error.

Instead of “unable to turn their heads” we could say: “unable to use their brains in the right way”.

Yep, good analogy.

And RM:AO was designed specially to get out of that cave. Through RM:AO, one can know that he knows, not merely guess about shadows.

Yes, that thought suggests itself to me too.

You once told me that you are “a bit like Hegel”. Is it right, if I say you are also a bit like Platon?

Oh please, I would rather not be compared to amateurs. :wink:
:laughing:

Well, please forgive my brief moment of pride. 8-[

Everyone has similarities. The big difference is in vantage points, or perspectives. I can see what they could not. But they could see things that I can not. More specifically, I know how to know with certainty, not probability [size=85](what I hesitantly mention as what some people call “knowing God/Truth”).[/size]

They guessed at what seemed to be principles of reality and from that, chose to form Truth and manage Man. I, like them, also can form Truth. But unlike them, I don’t have to guess at the principles of reality and I do it by an open and honest method called “RM”. But yeah, otherwise, we are a little similar, “metaphysicists” constructing Truth above what the priests contemplate. There are four levels of intelligence in society. The top level is involved in forming what it is that you call “Truth”. Some do so with deception in mind in order to gain a prize. Very few do so altruistically.

Okay, I forgive you. :obscene-smokingred:

Would you please name the other three levels?

Relatively many do so.

That’s true.

0) Reality itself; determining how the entire universe behaves.

1) Ontological Architects; choosing which concepts are going to be allowed into the minds of men, “which angels are allowed on Earth”, choosing the “gods” of Man, and providing for that void between above and below, doing all things indirectly. Sometimes referred to as the “ascended” or “lords”.

2) Religious Architects and Leaders; choosing how the “gods”/principles are to be obeyed through governing/maintaining thoughts and emotions, regulating the Perception of Hopes and Threats through subtle methods; value assignments (“money”), pestilence/diseases, and communication; “Media Networks”, “Social Networks”, “Rumor Mills”, “Secret Orders”, “Banking”, and “Medical Treatments”.

3) Government Architects and Leaders; governing/maintaining actions, militarily regulating constraints and freedoms, the “Laws of the Land”.

4) Masses; suffering in ignorance of what is going on above and around them, blinded in the confusion and on occasion, saved by the order.

When (2) and (3) are combined, you get a Pharaoh King and lustful “Godwannabe” having far too much power for his degree of discipline and understanding.

Note that I didn’t say that any of them are particularly good at what they do. Frankly I prefer that the top and bottom get stitched a lot closer together so as to quail and prevent the malignancy that leads to so very much needless suffering.

You mentioned a “0”-level: “Reality itself; determining how the entire universe behaves.” It doesn’t belong to the “four levels of intelligence in society” which you mentioned before. Thderefore: “0)”.

According to Hans Peter Raddatz those “four levels” are:

  1. world “nobility” (upper “nobility”),
  2. state “nobility” (middle “nobility”),
  3. dressage “nobility” (lower “nobility”),
  4. Masses.

Interestingly the governmental Politicians are not a part of the state “nobility” (middle “nobility”), but merely a part of the “nobility” (lower “nobility”).The state “nobility” (=> 2) and the dressage “nobility” (=> 3) shall unite to one “nobility”; both shall become one dressage “nobility” because states shall vanish.

Well, I’m sure they love to fantasize about being “The Nobility”, so paint themselves into that picture.

But I thought of an interesting ethical question concerning this whole, “Last Humans” scenario.

In the long run, only the most insidious, least ethical, and greatest murders of the rest of homosapian, responsible for the creation of machines, will be left. Now “should” those people be allowed to inherent the Earth as their kingdom? Or “should” the machines go ahead and get rid of the fowl vermin that they are?

In that case it would be better that the machines “get rid of the fowl vermin”.

What do you think?