There are many policies that cost a lot of money, and many more attitudes that lead to animosity, based on the idea that the races are (must be) equal in every respect, and thus any outcome where they aren't equal is a result of discrimination. It would be very useful for a great number of practical reasons to discover that this isn't the case. It's very simple.
Might is right eh?
Where’s the ‘love and acceptance’ now?
As far as I can tell, the debate basically breaks down like this:
1.) There are tons of IQ tests that seem to show statistically significant differences based on race, and they always break down in predictable ways- Back < White < East Asian. Many of these tests try to correct for wealth, geography, upbringing, and so on, and they get these results anyway.
2.) IQ tests are flawed in any number of ways, and we continually revise how we do them. So, old tests become irrelevant based on new standards. So there’s a lot of controversy as far as which tests to count.
3.) Liberals. As usual, they falsify data, call people bigots if they dare disagree, and in general allow politics to mutate science into something horrible. Stephen J Gould was a liar and a charlatan who’s crap about IQ still influences the discussion today. The idea that race doesn’t exist is based on politics, not good science. Most leftists will simply call you a racist and have nothing further to do with you if you say anything (or even hint that you might be thinking something) that goes against what they think about race.
4.) Income. There are also many IQ tests showing statistically significant differences within the same race based on income level. Given that black countries are poor countries and black within other countries tend to be poor, this makes a strong case that the IQ differences are based on culture/economics, and sheds doubts that attempts to correct for that have succeeded.
5.) IQ is going up everywhere. The human species as a whole is getting higher IQ’s, according to tests. Maybe this means we’re getting smarter, maybe it means we’re making the tests easier, who knows. But whatever it means, IQ is going up too fast for evolution or selective breeding to be the explanation. What’s more, races that score lower on IQ tests are improving faster than races that score high.
6.) Most research seems to conclude that intelligence IS influenced by genetics, however. If this is hard science, then all of the studies showing IQ discrepancies based on income level need to somehow account for genetic variation as a factor: are rich populations more intelligent than poor populations because they select for it in their breeding, or despite the genes for intelligence being evenly distributed? Either way, the possibility of race being a factor comes back into it.
Right now I tend to think it’s cultural- there are enough factors within our control that are proven to affect IQ tests, and IQ is changing much faster than genetic drift can account for, so to me the most likely scenario is that there is a connection between race and IQ not because of genetics, but because of the cultures the races tend towards. What is discovered about the general heritability of IQ might change my mind, and more IQ tests on trans-racial adoptees groups might as well.
While all this is legitimate, the only thing I care about is what is done with the data. Regardless of the scores, we cannot make judgments based off of it, legally. Personally, anyone can make a judgement how they wish, obviously, but legally we have to ignore IQ tests completely and treat all of the populous the same.
Except that we DON'T treat all the population the same- racial minorities get favored status when it comes to being hired and educated, specifically because their dimished presence is taken to be a sign of ongoing oppression. So that genie is already out of the bottle.
Shit! Can I use my last wish to make him go back in DM?
Yeah, but you still have to age a year.
Is anyone in this thread in favor of affirmative action policies?
I am not, there is clear evidence that it harms everyone. Both those that are affirmed and those held back, while also increasing/creating a divide between the two groups. It was seen in the affirmative action of South Africa, the Indian Caste “fixing” and every place it has been used.
They just perpetuate stigma and stereotyping.
What about reparations for slavery?
Anyone in favor of that?
Ecc, do you think that black people in america are still suffering from the effects of slavery?
Of course.
Imagine if your ancestors had been paid for three centuries worth of hard labor, you’d be a lot higher up the chain now than what you are.
They’d own property too, going back generations.
And investments.
So you’re in favor of reparations then?
Personally, I’m indifferent either way.
But I’d like to hear liberals explain why they’re not.
You’re indifferent? I’d like to hear you explain why.
And wait…you want liberals to explain why they’re against reparations? What?
I thought you understood by now.
At KTS we’re anthropologists, interested in the vagaries of human psychology, but especially the dark heart of liberalism.
That’s why I find it hard to see how ‘altruists’ who preach egalitarian ideals can be opposed to reparations.
I mean, it’s just money.
The dark heart? Dude, if you’re going to pretend to be doing science, or hell, even philosophy…you just can’t say shit like, “the dark heart”. I mean come on. Have some respect for yourself. Give your arguments the attention they deserve, and don’t use all this flowery horseshit language to try and spruce em up. You might as well paint your bias on your forehead.
Can you point out to me one of these altruists who preached egalitarian ideals?
That was unnecessarily off topic… the descriptor is fine, and would well describe the Liberals here too.